Guest jim s-w Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hi All I don't need to do a vast amount of shunting on the layout but I do need to be able to do loco changes. I have never liked any of the auto coupling but I needed something and IMHO the best option is the Dingham coupling. The main thing I like is that it can couple to a smiths hook so I don't need to have unprototypical couplings on my locos, the dingham itself is fairly well hidden under a coach gangway. The coupling is designed to be worked via under track magnets but I wanted to be able to uncouple anywhere on the layout by remote. The solution is ridiculously simple - Magnets! First up a prototype using normal magnets - a tiny one on the coupling itself and one in the vehicle. The small magnet is visible on the rear arm of the coupling. As can be seen by the position of the magnet in the second pic, there is no mechanical link to the coupling. This mean that when there is no magnetic force applied to the coupling its completely free to operate as normal. To work via DCC you just need to replace the solid magnet with an electro magnet. I am indebted to Jeff Pugh for suggesting cheap relays as a source, This one comes from a 5A DPDT 12v relay from Maplins (code n31aw) - Cost, less than 2 quid! After a while faffing about with resistors and diodes I found you can just wire the decoder directly to the electro magnet. Its best to use a function that is latched so that you need to hold a button down to uncouple. (function 2 on Digitrax is set to this by default) to avoid leaving the coupling in its raised position. To couple to a smiths hook you do need to raise the coupling and then drive the loco up to the vehicle being coupled up. HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted October 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2009 That's absolutely brilliant in its simplicity Jim. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I guess it would need some work to apply to empties and, to a degree, brake bans? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hi Paul I reckon these would be what you need http://www.microflight.com/Online-Catalog/Actuators-and-Servos;jsessionid=0a0109491f43ee0aef586ac64539b291be0e7e82cfea.e3eSc38LcheTe34Pa38Ta38Mchz0 They are the ones Nigel uses for his Alex Jackson couplings. You could mount them under the floor instead of on top. I intend to have a little experiment with some Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 When it came to flats, I was considering hiding the magnet in the under frame and have a bar running underneath. Would that work or should I lay off the good stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Is this the end of the shunters pole for shunting layouts? If it is only a small layout with limited rolling stock you could fit one to each end of every wagon with a decoder below the wagon floor. Uncouple anywhere at will. However, will the number of addresses that a controller can hold be a problem ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 A few observations from my 2mm/4mm experiments... Shunt diode on the coil. Possibly worth fitting if using big coils, such as that from the relay. The diode is in parallel with the coil winding, and stops the back EMF from the coil when turned off going into the chip. Alternatives to the non-latching function key is found in decoders which support Kroiss couplers; these being Zimo, CT and the new "plus" versions of the Lenz Silver/Gold chips. The Kroiss need a timed output. They also support a Roco coupler which has a high "start" pull current, then drops to a lower continuous current. Small coils; I have 2mm steam loco in the workshop for couplings to be fitted, this needs the coil behind the buffer beam, and I intend to use the small Plantraco for it (I could wind a smaller myself, but don't think its necessary). So, I don't see a massive problem fitting that coil to a 4mm wagon. My etches to hold the Plantraco coil for 4mm use fit in an approximately 4mm cube, with a small ear in the corner - behind buffer beam on almost all 4mm stock. I think the Plantraco coil fits one of the standard brass tube sizes (both round and square), which makes holding/mounting it fairly easy. Coil field direction; provided there is some repulsion/attraction in the magnetic circuit, its not necessary to have the coil-magnet perpendicular to each other. Nor to have the movement exactly along the magnetic field lines. (For magnetic field lines, remember the school experiments with iron filings scattered on paper with a magnet below). Fitting to all rolling stock - I think this is insane, its hard work fitting pickups everywhere, and pulling up the wagon address to uncouple is a pain on almost all systems(*). However, if you can come up with a local rule on which function key controls certain types of stock, it can be made easier. For example, brake vans use F8, intermediate van uses F7, intermediate flat F6. Then, use the consisting commands to bring all the stock under a common address. (This does blow up again if you have a sound loco with 12 sound function keys in use !). (* an exception - NCE, use the ??30-ish MiniPanel as a rolling stock uncoupling control device. The MiniPanel takes 30 push buttons, which means a panel can be built with a picture/description of each item of stock, and a button for uncoupling it. Push the button required and the MiniPanel can send the relevant function instruction to that item of stock. Partial exception on the Digitrax Zephyr, where one can leave the wagon address(es) on the "jump" ports and just send function instructions, this saves the hassle of consisting and de-consisting the wagons with the loco - I've done this at some demonstrations. Its possible to do something similar to the NCE MiniPanel with a Digitrax system using the HDL LocoIO board, but it needs a computer in the middle to interpret the LocoIO signals, at which point I wonder if just using the mouse to click on things on the computer would be as easy... ). Perhaps Jim W-S and I can meet up somewhere to compare notes; I'll be at Warley and Wigan shows this year, on the 2mm Scale Association stand (I can sneak some non-2mm stuff under the counter!). - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi Nigel Afraid I wont be at either of those shows - I will be at Leeds this weekend with Moor Street though. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyGT Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Have you added this device your locos too? Great work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hiya No I haven't - As I mentioned in my initial posting I don't want unprototypical couplings on my loco's, the Dingham will couple to a smiths hook Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyGT Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I have been thinking about dcc coupling and have never thought of putting a device into the stock. Good idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Digital Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Great idea Jim and simple to. Thanks for sharing. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hi Gents Appologies as I should have put this in the First post. For further reading on Nigel's excellent work on DCC couplings please visit The Scalefour Society Forum Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Jim, Just looking at the Dinghams - and I must say it's pretty neat - Have you thought of applying it to your DMU stock? I assume that some splitting and joining would have gone on at BNS, and this would look pretty cool if done automatically. As for hauled stock, how are you arranging the current collection for the decoder in the coach? I have found that Bachmann pick ups (as per class 158 etc) are pretty good for pick ups on my EMU stock as they do not give much drag, and would be my choice for a coach too. Nice stuff Jim, Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hi Chris I am using my normal MJT compensated bogies fitted with Branchlines wheels. This means each bogie is live without any pick ups! If you need extra ones then a bit of .3mm wire bearing on the back of the insulated wheel provides nearly no resistance at all. The wheels are solid so you can arrange the pick ups near the centers for least resistance. As for splitting DMU's - I am not sure yet. Cartainly havent come across any examples of DMU's being split in the station working books but then I havent really been looking! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thanks for the link Jim. I see that N31AW is a PCB mount relay http://www.maplin.co.uk/interface-relays-37523 are you sure this is the right relay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoworks Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 are function outputs DC or AC? i ask because if they are DC and you have a magnetisable core it may eventually become a permanent magnet and keep the coupling up?? i thought about using the coil arrangement from a point motor and mounting it mid coach to pull a fishing line to raise the hook or loop?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted April 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2011 are function outputs DC or AC? Function outputs are DC. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 if they are DC and you have a magnetisable core it may eventually become a permanent magnet and keep the coupling up?? There shouldn't be a problem with the cores becoming magnetised as the metal used in the construction of relays is, or should be, a material which resists magnetisation but is of low resistance to magnetic flux such as soft iron. soft iron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Looks nice and simple, will likely do something similar when it comes time to build stock. kelly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 As for splitting DMU's - I am not sure yet. Cartainly havent come across any examples of DMU's being split in the station working books but then I havent really been looking! I can't say as I ever saw any DMUs (or EMUs) being split/coupled at New St itself. There were stabling sidings at Four Oaks (past Sutton Coldfield) on the Cross-City line, where quite a few services terminated, and DMU sets could often be seen in the sidings. If sets were split or joined anywhere (for the rush-hour services), I reckon it would've been done there. I don't know if there was an equivalent location on the southern section of the route..? Neat idea with the couplings Jim. I do take your point (across from another thread) that you need DCC/remote uncouplings etc... due to the obstructions (OHLE, Shopping Centre) - and the sheer width of the layout too, I'd imagine!! Loco changeovers, Station Pilot moves and so on are the sort of action that's totally missing from places like New St these days... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi All I don't need to do a vast amount of shunting on the layout but I do need to be able to do loco changes. I have never liked any of the auto coupling but I needed something and IMHO the best option is the Dingham coupling. The main thing I like is that it can couple to a smiths hook so I don't need to have unprototypical couplings on my locos, the dingham itself is fairly well hidden under a coach gangway. HTH Jim I gave up with Dinghams becuase they don't work well with corridor coaches and some wagons with fancy vacuum pipes. The problem is that they require the coupling loop to lift a long way up to release the delay loop. Now if you're using DCC then you don't need the delay loop. But unless you reduce the height that the coupling loop lifts, won't it still foul? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Thanks for the link Jim. I see that N31AW is a PCB mount relay http://www.maplin.co.uk/interface-relays-37523 are you sure this is the right relay? Hi Tim That's what it says on the packet are function outputs DC or AC? i ask because if they are DC and you have a magnetisable core it may eventually become a permanent magnet and keep the coupling up?? i thought about using the coil arrangement from a point motor and mounting it mid coach to pull a fishing line to raise the hook or loop?? I'll probably be using each coupling a half dozen times per day, for 2 weekends a year max. I don't know but I imagine a relay will be designed to work a lot more than that. I gave up with Dinghams becuase they don't work well with corridor coaches and some wagons with fancy vacuum pipes. The problem is that they require the coupling loop to lift a long way up to release the delay loop. Now if you're using DCC then you don't need the delay loop. But unless you reduce the height that the coupling loop lifts, won't it still foul? You do have to mount them a bit further out than normal to couple to the smiths hook. The gangway isn't a problem then Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Loco changeovers, Station Pilot moves and so on are the sort of action that's totally missing from places like New St these days... Afraid loco's are completely missing these days. In my era light loco moves were going on all the time! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonME46 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Hi Paul I reckon these would be what you need http://www.microflight.com/Online-Catalog/Actuators-and-Servos;jsessionid=0a0109491f43ee0aef586ac64539b291be0e7e82cfea.e3eSc38LcheTe34Pa38Ta38Mchz0 They are the ones Nigel uses for his Alex Jackson couplings. You could mount them under the floor instead of on top. I intend to have a little experiment with some Cheers Jim Can I clarify which product was being recommended-the link took me to a page of actuators and servos... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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