On Swindon 123s workbench.

[Swindon 123]

Well after a bit of a gap whilst other things got in the way, my workbench staggered back into life in the weeks leading up to Wibdenshaws appearence at Ally Pally. One of the long lost projects was a 4 car Class 101 with a Trailer Brake Second in the formation. A hybrid set with a class 104 TBS acting as the power car had appeared in the past, but the stumbling block on the 101 had been how to fit a power unit into the brake area. Many contenders had been considered but the real impetus came when Mr Wibble replaced one of the "pancake"power bogies in one of his 110's with one out of the new ones Hornby are now putting in the 101's. The required modifications where duly made to the trailer chassis and the bodies of a spare Driving Motor Brake Second and Trailer Composite cut and joined to make the required body. Photo's of the work and finished article appear below.

Note the bodyside grill of the refubished doner body and the not required water filler point have been filled in.

 

On the brake compartment the guards door on this side had to be altered to the right configuration. The body joint is at the far end passenger door and was positioned to take advantage of one of the roof panel moulded joints to aid hiding it as most of the time the roof would be the part most people would look at at an exhibition.

 

Undercoated to see the blemishes. As this was a pre refurbishment vehicle the rain strips where removed from the body except over the doors.

 

The other side undercoated and looking good so far.

Below are some shots of the finished article.

 

As per my DMU stock for Wibdenshaw it is fitted with Kadees and both ends have card corridor connector fill pieces on. As it is acting as a power vehicle in a set, both ends have them as this allows flexibility in the formations. At Ally Pally this vehicle ran in a 4 car set with a 101DMC and 104 TS & DMC. With a little bit of lead weight added right above the motor mount it is capable of hauling 8 vehicles around Wibdenshaw if needed and the motor is very free running and responsive. I will add some photo's showing the motor bogie when I find where I've hidden them on the computer and also of the 4 car 108 powered along the same lines.

 

Paul J.

[the penguin of doom]

A very nice job sir.

 

I was thinking about having a go at the same thing, but took the easy route and just coupled up four standard cars as per the (later?) four car sets.

 

You've set me thinking about doing it right now though.............!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Gallows Close]

Very nice,

 

I remember the triple sets with the brake in the centre car on the Scarborough to Hull route in the late 1980's. Beat the pants off a Pacer... Always nice to ride behind the driver with the curtain up during daylight, and for those winter 06:00 starts the centre cars were always warm and quiet - You would sit down and choke on the dust, mind!

 

Lovely model, and fondly remembered.

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[IC126]

Nice work.

 

One of my first memories of really taking an interest in DMUs and realising that they were definitely NOT "all the same" was having a Metro Cammel Trailer Brake pointed out to me by a more knowledgeable and observant companion. A fairly rare beast for Scottish region as I later discovered.

 

Your conversion thus takes me instantly back in time to Haymarket depot, about 1981/2.

[Swindon 123]

A very nice job sir.

 

I was thinking about having a go at the same thing, but took the easy route and just coupled up four standard cars as per the (later?) four car sets.

 

You've set me thinking about doing it right now though.............!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

 

I had done the same thing pending the construction of the TBS. Ten sets from one of late orders in 1959 should have appeared as triples but ran as power twins and donated their TCL's to form a batch of 4 car sets, MBS, TCL, TCL, DMC.

 

Now for part 2. I had always fancied a 4 car 108 but was always put off by the inability to aquire a spare MBS or TS body to help with the cut and shut to form the TBS. Once again Mr Wibble came to the rescue by providing a spare MBS body he had no further use for. His idea of using the Hornby 101 motor bogie solved the other problem. If possible I like to hide the motor bogie in the brake area as this leaves the passenger areas free of obstuctions. This had always caused a problem on the 108 as the Bachmann motor bogie and chassis did not lend themselves to being made into a trailer chassis. A quick check on the Bachmann plastic trailer chassis showed that with the right size hole and mounting bracket a Hornby bogie would fit no problem. An added bonus was the fact that the Bachmann and Hornby bogies where a good match so a complete Hornby bogie with side frames would not look out of place. Anyhow enough waffle below are a few photo's of the conversion.

 

In undercoat to show up the blemishes. Fortunately not to many by the looks of things.

 

 

In the time period modelled these 4 car sets where based at South Gosforth and had window bars added as below

 

 

The finished article.

 

 

 

 

As the unit was pre refurbishment the 2 DMC's at each end where also backdated by adding headcode boxes. These where cut out from thin plasticard. Looking at the few photo's of these units during there time in the NE after the discontinuation of headcodes most had white blinds in the headcodes. This was achieved on the model by fixing Rizler cigarette paper over the openings before sticking the headcode boxes onto the cab front. This kept the headcode box thin and the added bonus was the paper is quite fine and looked like a cloth blind. Also noted in the photos was that although originally composites with a first class section behind the cab by the mid 70's most had been downgraded to all second, so the first class window markings have been retained. In fact I painted the with yellow first class stripes and then weathered in and then masked off the yellow stipes and painted them blue as the prototype.

 

Note the reverse black destination lettering on a white blind common in the NE area and window bars fitted.

 

As per the 101 TBS some lead weight was added above the motor bogie and the unit ran perfectly on both days at Alley Palley. Also as with the 101 it is more than capable of hauling extra vehicles and happily runs with Mr Wibbles power/trailer Bachmann motored 108's, and makes an interesting addition to the Wibdenshaw fleet.

Next up is an 8 coach "high speed" rake for Wibdenshaw with a BFK in the process of being bashed together.

 

Paul J.

[Swindon 123]

Interesting stuff there SP Steve. They certainly do stand out on photos of units fitted with them.

 

Paul J.

[Wibble]

And here's a pic of the 4 car 108 in service

 

[Swindon 123]

As intimated in my previous post, having exhausted my present DMU kitbashing (the 124 is still in abayance awaiting "other projects" to finish) I have now turned my attention to coaching stock. In the mid 70's the ER ran a number of "High Speed Rakes" of Mk2d 's in order to accelerate timings on certain trains on the ECML. These rakes where made up of 8 coaches in formation BFK, FK, FO, Kitchen buffet, Restaurant open, TSO, TSO, TSO. From photographic evidence there was the occasional variation to this, usually in the form of a BG for the BFK or variations in the catering vehicles. The FO/FK,and TSO's where provided for but the BFK would require some kitbashing. The doner coaches, a BSO and FO where duly sourced and after some diligent study of Michael Harris's "British Rail Mark 2 Coach" book a plan was formulated. As will be seen from the photo below the FO supplied the required 4 window bays and the BSO the brake section for the coach.

However the brake section of the BFK is smaller than that of the BSO so having worked out that the brake end as far as the double doors was the same in both coaches the sides of the brake section where removed for further modification later on, as can be seen on the above photo.

The brake section roof was now cut back so that the coach was the right length, using if possible the ribbing moulded on the roof to mask the join. If you look carefully at the photo above you will see that the removed sided are now to long to fit into the hole in the side of the coach. These would have to be shortened taking care to get the window spacing correct especially on the corridor side of the coach.

View of the coach roof showing use of ribs to mask join. I'm not sure if the roof vents are now in the right place, but with a lack of photo's on the subject I am going to leave as is.

Evergreen plastic strip was added to lend strength and rigidity to the coach and in the case of the side strip give me something to glue the modified sides too.

Well that was the start of the project. The next and hardest part was modifying the sides and getting the window spacing correct. But that is for Part 2.

 

Paul J.

[mark54]

In the mid 70's the ER ran a number of "High Speed Rakes" of Mk2d 's in order to accelerate timings on certain trains on the ECML. These rakes where made up of 8 coaches in formation BFK, FK, FO, Kitchen buffet, Restaurant open, TSO, TSO, TSO.

 

I'm not sure if the roof vents are now in the right place, but with a lack of photo's on the subject I am going to leave as is.

Hi Paul,

 

I hope you don't mind if I correct you. The ECML 8 coach High Speed rakes had the following formation from north to south TSO, TSO, TSO, RB, RU, FO, FO, BFK up to the advent of HST operation. The two FO coaches were used to provide meal-at-seat service for 1st class passengers, which was why 2 kitchen vehicles were provided.

 

There were 3 roof vents at the brake end on the BFK. The one at the end of the van end was in the same position as the BSO. The one over the guards compartment's was one roof section further towards the van end compared to the BSO. The third vent was on the corridor side, 2 roof sections on from the end vent and 4 roof sections from the guard's vent (if I am making myself clear). If you have the Harris Mk2 book the BFK diagram shows the positions quite well.

 

Your BFK is looking good. I look forward to seeing the completed model.

[Swindon 123]

Hi mark54, you are correct in your statement on the high speed sets and that is how I intend to represent one on Wibdenshaw however some of the sets found on the Leed/ Bradford services also had an FK in them instead of an FO so I am going to model one of them as well. For catering vehicles it would seem a few different combinations could be found. A RB in the 16xx number range with a RU in the 19xx range was the most common pairing, but a RUO in the 10xx range or RKB in the 15xx range or combinations of any two of the four could sometimes turn up. I am working on being able to any sort of combination together as the evidence becomes available. I have a fair amount now so I hope to be able to put accurate rakes together on Wibdenshaw.

With regards to the roof vents although the position along the roof is quite clear in the book, I was not sure as to the position of the middle vent in relation to the center line of the roof. That plus the fact I haven't any suitable replacements are the reasons I have decided to leave as is for the moment.

Paul J.

[mark54]

You are quite right Paul. The Leeds Executive in the May 1977 Timetable had an RKB/RUO combination in the down direction only.

 

There is a photo of a roof of a Mk2d BFK in the Ian Allen book Diesels on the Eastern by John Vaughn. It has been caught in the foreground of a shot of a Deltic approaching Hull Station and shows quite well the positioning of the vents from the centre line.

 

Mark

[Swindon 123]

There is a photo of a roof of a Mk2d BFK in the Ian Allen book Diesels on the Eastern by John Vaughn. It has been caught in the foreground of a shot of a Deltic approaching Hull Station and shows quite well the positioning of the vents from the centre line.

 

Thanks for that Mark, most usefull and would most probable not found it. Now all I have to do is make them??

With regards to the coach itself it is now just waiting for final spraying in Blue/Grey, although altering the roof may now delay that. Here's the progress so far.

Having now cut up the various bits of a BSO and FO and put them back together, alteration to the brake end sides was required. The FO portion of the coach was 146mm long, the cut being made at the 12th rib on the roof from the roof hatch end. Keep the 12th rib intact as this is useful for ensuring the cut across the roof is square. Originally the BSO was cut exactly in half, 131mm, but this is too long so after cutting the sides off back as far as the brake double doors the roof was shortened by 13mm and cut back to, funnely enough, the 12th rib on the roof from the end. Yet again I used this rib to ensure a square cut across the roof. Carefull filing back then made the coach the right length for the chassis. This involves loosing a roof rib on one of the sections, (or half of it on each section) but you should end up with a nice tidy roof joint.

Below is a photo of how it should look before putting together.

 

What this now means is the two sections of side removed earlier ar now longer than the hole to fit them into and so require shortening. If you look at the above photo you will see that I had cut back the sides to 5mm from the brake end double doors. That left me with a section 13mm too long and so the removed sides required cutting down in length. However it was not a case of cutting 13mm of anywhere but either side of the window in the brake section only. This was easy for the non corridor side as I had the drawings in the Mk2 coach book to work off and the result can be seen in the photo's below.

 

The corridor side proved much more difficult as I didn't have a drawing to work off and even finding photo's of that side of the coach proved difficult. I eventually came up with a guestimation of how it should look and it seens to look right but I can no way claim it to be guaranteed accurate. The side had to be cut into three sections to enable me to get what I think is the right distances between the respective windows. I hope the photo's below show this.

 

 

Once the altered sides where to my liking they where glued together and a thin plastic strip added to the top of them to make up the sliver lost during the cutting out process and they where tried out in position in the coach. See photo's below.

 

 

Once I was happy that the fit was right they where glued in position and then given a coat of Halfords grey primer to show up and imperfections which where put right and now it awaits finishing in Blue/Grey when a couple of other coaches are ready for the same.

 

 

The inside for the coach came from a old spare Hornby BFK and fits OK with a little bit of modification.

 

Paul J.

[the penguin of doom]

As intimated in my previous post, having exhausted my present DMU kitbashing (the 124 is still in abayance awaiting "other projects" to finish) I have now turned my attention to coaching stock.

 

Hi Swindon.

 

Re the mention of the 124, I "kitbashed" a full 6 car set using the 4mm scale drawings in a DMU book I have stashed somewhere about the house. It has all the DMU classes and is invaluable, although I can't think of the correct title at the moment.

 

Anywho, the 124 used Southern Pride clear MK1 sides and Mr Southern Pride cut some vinyl window frames so as I could flush glaze the sides. I used the Lilliput ends, but beefed them out to 00 gauge to match the rest of my stock. Hornby bogies and DC kits underframes completed the model. This was before the days of RMweb, so no pictures of the conversion exist. Strangely, I've never run it, as I dont have a layout and have never had access to a layout capable of housing a 6 car set....... Until our new club layout is finished!

 

I won't hijack the thread with pictures, but I AM following your coach conversion with interest, as its exactly the type of modelling I like. I have just finished an LMS Stanier using similar methods, but your MK2 is cut-and-shuttastic.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[ozzyo]

Paul J.

 

after all your work on the conversion , just check the hinges on the guards doors. The guards doors open inwards so the hinges would not be so prominent on the out side.

Nice job up to now.

 

OzzyO.

 

 

[Swindon 123]

Thanks for noticing the guards door hinges ozzyo. I hadn't noticed them before. As inside opening doors they wouldn't have any visible hinges. As they are the on the doner BSO it means I will have to remember to take them off the BSO coaches I am modelling as well. I will also change the guards door handle whilst I'm about it as well.

 

Paul J.

[Guest jim s-w]

 

Re the mention of the 124, I "kitbashed" a full 6 car set using the 4mm scale drawings in a DMU book I have stashed somewhere about the house. It has all the DMU classes and is invaluable, although I can't think of the correct title at the moment.

 

 

Hi Sean

 

is it A Pictorial Record of British Railways DMUs ? If it is beware as a lot (practically all) of the drawings have errors in them.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[the penguin of doom]

Hi Sean

 

is it A Pictorial Record of British Railways DMUs ? If it is beware as a lot (practically all) of the drawings have errors in them.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Ah!

 

Think I'll use the theory, "if it looks right, it is right". Due to my construction method, I can't alter it now if it's wrong......

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[iL Dottore]

Some very nice work indeed (you've certainly got the "Grubby BR Blue" finish down to a T).

 

A question, if I may, about your cut and shut efforts: how do you get such straight cuts on a curved side? I have a razor saw and an aluminium mitrebox for such purposes, but rarely get cut that doesn't require cleaning up/tinkering with in one form or another.

 

F

[BernardTPM]

The corridor side proved much more difficult as I didn't have a drawing to work off and even finding photo's of that side of the coach proved difficult. I eventually came up with a guestimation of how it should look and it seens to look right but I can no way claim it to be guaranteed accurate.

 

The spacing is the same as the earlier BFK coaches so you could follow the Hornby one you took the interior out of.

[Swindon 123]

iL Dottore wrote.

Some very nice work indeed (you've certainly got the "Grubby BR Blue" finish down to a T).

 

A question, if I may, about your cut and shut efforts: how do you get such straight cuts on a curved side? I have a razor saw and an aluminium mitrebox for such purposes, but rarely get cut that doesn't require cleaning up/tinkering with in one form or another.

 

I have tried a few methods with varying degrees of success but now find that taping an engineers square onto the side and using it to cut against works fpr me. Another method I have found that gives reasonable results, especially on a roof, is to put a couple of layers of masking tape on to act as something to cut against. Still get it wrong sometimes and have to clean the cut up but both methods seem to be reasonably successful in my case.

 

BernardTPM wrote.

The spacing is the same as the earlier BFK coaches so you could follow the Hornby one you took the interior out of

 

Had a quick check of that and my 2d is close to the Hornby one but a word of caution, the Hornby coach is a foot (4mm in 4mm) short and I'm not sure where that foot has been lost, but a good tip for anyone following my footsteps.

 

On other projects, with house alterations and holidays and the like coming to an end thoughts are now turning to finishing the lost "Trans Pennine" build. Now if I could only find a way to tranfer the original RM2 thread to this forum? If I've got this right??? this should be the link to that topic, (EDIT). I've removed the link, It didn't work

 

Paul J.

[the penguin of doom]

iL Dottore wrote.

 

 

I have tried a few methods with varying degrees of success but now find that taping an engineers square onto the side and using it to cut against works fpr me. Another method I have found that gives reasonable results, especially on a roof, is to put a couple of layers of masking tape on to act as something to cut against. Still get it wrong sometimes and have to clean the cut up but both methods seem to be reasonably successful in my case.

 

BernardTPM wrote.

 

 

Had a quick check of that and my 2d is close to the Hornby one but a word of caution, the Hornby coach is a foot (4mm in 4mm) short and I'm not sure where that foot has been lost, but a good tip for anyone following my footsteps.

 

On other projects, with house alterations and holidays and the like coming to an end thoughts are now turning to finishing the lost "Trans Pennine" build. Now if I could only find a way to tranfer the original RM2 thread to this forum? If I've got this right??? this should be the link to that topic My link

If I've not got it right I'm afraid your on your own!

 

Paul J.

 

Hi Paul.

 

Might be me, but the link didn't work.....

 

I'm waiting for my Trans-Pennine fix!......

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[BernardTPM]

Had a quick check of that and my 2d is close to the Hornby one but a word of caution, the Hornby coach is a foot (4mm in 4mm) short and I'm not sure where that foot has been lost, but a good tip for anyone following my footsteps.

Paul J.

 

That should be in the passenger section as the Mk.2 coaches with wrap-round doors were a little longer, 66' over body as opposed to 65' 4.25" because of the wider end doors and the slightly wider passenger door in the middle of the brake coaches (correctly reproduced by Airfix).

[Swindon 123]

the penguin of doom wrote.

Might be me, but the link didn't work.....

 

I'm waiting for my Trans-Pennine fix!......

 

Looks like I'll have to restart the thread.

I've edited out the link to stop any more disappointment.

 

Thanks for the info on the Mk 2 differences BernardTPM. My brake windows are only out by fractions of a millimeter, more by luck I suspect.

 

Paul J.

[the penguin of doom]

the penguin of doom wrote.

 

 

Looks like I'll have to restart the thread.

I've edited out the link to stop any more disappointment.

 

Thanks for the info on the Mk 2 differences BernardTPM. My brake windows are only out by fractions of a millimeter, more by luck I suspect.

 

Paul J.

 

Excellent.

 

But will you post a link here when you start the new thread?

 

Looking forward to it.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Swindon 123]

Having taken note of the comments regarding a couple of discrepancies on the BFK I finally got round to doing something about them.

First tackled was the roof and moving two of the vents. At first I was not looking forward to making some new ones up but on removing the two vents that where in the wrong position I was able, with a bit of care, to get them off complete and reuse them. The photo's below show the resulting "original"vents in their new positions.

 

 

Next on the list was the guards doors. Removing the hinges was not difficult but I had also decided to change the door handles as the ones modelled by Airfix where wrong. It was whilst checking up on this I noticed another two discrepancies on the doors. The first involved the guards door on the corridor side which Airfix had hinged on the left. Both guards doors hinge on the right as you look at them with the door handle on the left. The hinges you don't see so don't matter but on the corridor side the door handle has to move. Whilst doing this I also noticed that all the door and grab handles are too high on the bodyside. Since to alter these on my fleet of coaches already done will involve too much effort I shall accept this discrepancy for now. As will be seen in the photo's below I also did some work on the inside by thinning the compartment doors a little compared to the "Hornby "original and also made the parcels area of the brake see through and added some mesh to represent the cage area.

 

 

Now it awaits the call to the paint bench.

 

Paul J.