The friendliness of model clubs ?

[rob D2]

Hi all,

currently reading the new RM, especially 'club news'. Noticed the ad from a certain model railway group looking for new members, quote:

 

"age range upwards of about 20 with or without experience as we can teach in most subjects" - why 20 ? a rather arbitary figure, surely 18 upwards if you only want adults.

 

 

"we do not want passengers or anyone who wants to do nothing at all" - fair enough, but it's all in the phrasing I guess.

 

This sort of abrasive tone is the kind of thing that makes me think I am better off beavering away in the GAB (gentleman's activity bunker) on my own.

[JohnR]

I think the reason why they need to advertise members is there in the wording of their advert...

[trisonic]

Whether friendly or not they all tend to have a "this is the way we do it or we don't" mentality which never seems to be ageeable to my ideas - that makes me sound arrogant, I'm not really but I've never found a club i'd be happy joining and so gave up trying 30 years ago.

Somewhere like RMweb is much better because it has a "broad-church" approach in that there is no one way of doing things - on here you can find everything from "train set" types to P4/S4 finescale and everything inbetween.

 

Best, Pete

[Oldddudders]

Absolutely with you on that advert. Evidently the sole purpose of the members is to obey the organisers' wishes, which presumably means building the layout they have set the club's heart on - and that's that. I do wonder why they're having to actively seek members? Years ago Cyril Freezer pointed out in RM that even if a member's only interest was in reproducing Pullman table lamps in 4mm, he/she still added value to the club. Presumably club dues/subscriptions all help the club to go in the same direction, whatever the outlook of the member/subscriber.

 

Mind you, even online societies can be quite off-putting. One I would like to join has a very frosty website with joining details that make you pause for thought, and I hear their discussion forum is rather quiet - perhaps no-one dares speak out of turn!

 

I think the line between running a club, real or virtual, as an effective and satisfying community, and making it a well-drilled, military-esque machine that is unattractive to many is narrower than we might imagine.

['CHARD]

GAB (gentleman's activity bunker)

 

Legendary

 

Somewhere like RMweb is much better because it has a "broad-church" approach in that there is no one way of doing things - on here you can find everything from "train set" types to P4/S4 finescale and everything inbetween.

I think this is another contender for quote of the day. Succinctly and eruditely put, Pete.

 

Like you, I've never felt relaxed enough about clubs, and nowadays I find the idea of joining one too restrictive. With a public image like that in the advert it just goes to reinforce that view, sadly.

[pete_mcfarlane]

There's nothing like clubs and societies for attracting oddballs and internal politics.

 

age range upwards of about 20 with or without experience as we can teach in most subjects

I could understand if they didn't want anyone under 18, because of the hassle of getting enough people through the necessary background checks (as everyone these day is assumed to be a nasty child molesting type and not to be left on their own with kids unless proven otherwise) but 20 is indeed an odd figure to go for. It's not as if railway modelling is going to attract the troublesome "yoof" element.

we do not want passengers or anyone who wants to do nothing at all

The problem with that is in the definition of a "passenger" - many people don't have much spare time, but will gladly give up the odd evening to help when they can. You need to be very careful not to alienate such people, just because they can't come on 2 nights every week.

 

Retired people in particular seem to forget that many people have to spend a large percentage of their life at work (often working shifts or odd hours or travelling away from home), and that somebody not turning up regularly isn't necessarily due to them being unreliable.

[AMJ]

My feeling is that as a couple of local clubs have the usual Thomas layouts for the younger people to drive this gets them understanding how things move.

 

At one local club expo the layouts with the biggest crowds tend to be the vintage Hornby-Dublo, Wrenn, Trix, Hornby, Triang. So the old "toy" trains are more popular than scale items.

 

All clubs should have at least one layout for running RTR products as there will be many that are collectors and runners of models and not worry that you have a class 70 diesel on a rake of Gresley teak coaches.

 

If as a hobby we do not get any younger members joining then we stand a danger of having to close the model clubs. This will probably also mean that the manufacturers have fewer people buying models so might mean that what they produce gets less.

[rob D2]

Agree with all of the above,

I just think it's a shame and somewhat cliquey to advertise like that.I remember an ad in RM a few years ago that was even worse, it went ' we have happily been modelling for 20 years and we don't want anyone rocking the boat' . I kid you not.

 

The friendliest model event I have been to was the RMweb event in 08, although I knew noone really, I recognised alot of user names and had some good chats.

[trisonic]

Clubs are no longer essential for promoting the "hobby" with the advent of sites like this and the modern magazine format. Exhibitions still are but I wonder how many newbies to the hobby they really attract? How many exhibits/layouts are made by lone wolf types or very small groups? One thing I've learnt in my life is that times change fast.

 

 

Look at this; we can discuss such topics almost instantaneously and politely.

 

 

I don't even want/need to know what a CRB or GAB is...............with respect!

 

Best regards, Pete.

[Baby Deltic]

I have been a member of a model railway club, as have my modelling 'partners in crime'. We all left the club because of politics, lack of interest in the prototypes being modelled, and the fact that, generally, those who shout the loudest about what they can do, and get their way, usually come up lowest in the modelling ability department.

 

That said, it was at a model club that I first met Jim and Charlie Connor (L49), Colin Whitelock (Colin) and Iain Ripo (Pete the Elaner), who became good friends. The most important thing, as far as I am concerned, when it comes to building a joint layout is the following criteria:

 

1/ You must be good friends, and form a cohesive group. Politics and bickering have no place in a successful modelling venture.

 

2/ Its not a competition to see who is the best modeller or who can make the best layout. Obviously you are only as good as the 'worst' modeller, as everybody's contributions form the layout. This is one reason why I have let Jim and Charlie do the buildings on Harford Street, as they are far more experienced than me at cutting plasticard in the right shapes.

That said, I will try making some of the buildings on the backscene, but if my modelling stinks, and they don't meet the standards, they won't go on the layout. Harsh maybe, but that's how I'll learn and improve my skills.

 

3/ You need to have a common interest and a common cause. Its no good trying to build a layout if half of your team are half hearted. You have to have a level of enthusiasm and common love of the prototype to really bring out the best in your collective efforts. Myself, Jim and Charlie love the North London Railway and the Architecture of Edwin Horne, so that's a big plus. This is where a lot of club efforts fall short of the mark, because half of the people involved are probably working towards a layout which meets the wishes and interests of those organising it, but they have little interest themselves.

 

4/ You need a good mix of skills. Some people may be good at making scenery but hopeless at building baseboards. Others can be good at track laying and building control panels, doing wiring, electronics and soldering but not so good with a Swann Morton. Collectively, however, the team can turn out some nice models if the right balance of skills is met.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion.

[shortliner]

At a guess the age thing is, at least in part, due to the requirement that ALL members would need to have CRB checks done if "junior" members were permitted to join - It is this litigous/press uproar society we live in I'm afraid

[Welly]

^^^

I think CRB is only needed when the youngsters are not accompanied by their parents, there is a father and son who joined my local club last year and there was no talk of CRB then!

[pirouets]

Just a thought having read the whole advert, is that it may be a small group of modellers even though they call themselves a club. I kind of inferred from the "private address" that it may be at someones house.

 

Whilst it may not be well written I do wonder if the intention was specifically narrow minded because of the way the club operates. With that in mind the advert does fails to convery that or why. they may be t-gauge scratch builders .....)

[PhilJ W]

At a guess the age thing is, at least in part, due to the requirement that ALL members would need to have CRB checks done if "junior" members were permitted to join - It is this litigous/press uproar society we live in I'm afraid

It is not neccessary to have CRB checks if you are going to have junior members. The club to which I am a member has a rule that all junior members must be accompanied by a parent or guardian, not as much a problem as it first appeared and we have even recruited one grandad. Our youngest member is six years old and his modelling skills put many of his (adult) seniors to shame.

[Kenton]

I've never found a club i'd be happy joining and so gave up trying 30 years ago.

Somewhere like RMweb is much better because it has a "broad-church" approach

snipped

 

I'll try to avoid the global statement that they are all bad - because somewhere out there there may be one for me.

But in my experience they all fail as the discussions seem to centre around "football, cars, and beer" with very little focus on modelling other than a few of the members parading their "skills" often to the exclusion of others. If you join in the discussion on how some nameless bunch connect with a bag of wind and take part in hero worship of the "committee" then you might just fit in.

If I wanted that I could find a pub.

 

At least with RMWeb the focus is on modeling and certainly over a very wide range of interests. It is nearly always without any overt "show off" and is definitely open and an all welcome approach.

 

Some others no doubt enjoy the social interaction and distraction from their modeling.

 

They also tend to be few and far between almost remote which must say something for their popularity.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

When I joined my club around 8 years ago, I was the first junior member and I had little detailed knowledge of anything - models or prototype. I'm sure it must have taken a lot of patience from the members that looked after me for the first couple of years while I learned the ropes, but my knowledge grew exponentially just through talking to them and I have always looked foward to the meetings. I suppose that now, I am one of the more experienced operators despite only being 19!

 

Back to the main topic of this thread, I answered an advert in a magazine that was smiple and to the point. I had a little trial period due to my age and had to be accompanied by an adult until I was 16 but it is worth it.

 

Unfortunately my club can no longer cater for under 18s but this is a case of government legislation, not the older folk being hostile towards the 'youth of today'.

 

I think that my enjoyment of the club and the fact that I was so welcome was perhaps down to the lack of rivet counters - whilst the layout is set in BR period, I have always been allowed to run the occasional pre-nationalisation locomotive. There are rules, but they are fair and can be bent slightly within reason. The ethos is more about running trains than having lots of detail and precision. I feel that this is an important atmosphere to create if you want to include everyone and attract newcomers to the hobby, rather than have one of the louder members campaigning for miniscule details.

 

I am not one for having radical opinions, I like to see the other side of the arguement to my own (which would make me a terrible politician!) but I feel that if a club is wanting to attract new members,young or old, the rivet counters should back off and allow people to enjoy themselves just running trains, and if they can't get their fix of railway modelling in that way, form a club specifically for their tastes and see who wants to join, or just build their own layout to their own specifications!

[tetsudofan]

I joined my local MRC club when I left Japan and returned to the UK in 1999 but, unfortunately, it did not work out. Having been abroad my interests were regarded as out-of-the-ordinary - Japanese (HO not N) trains and trams plus some Chinese, European and American - all places I had worked and/or lived in. It was not possible to pidgeon-hole me into one of the areas of the club's interests. The annual dues also seemed quite high for what you got. I left after less than six months

 

Started to build my own mixed-use layout in a shed at the end of the garden but 5 years later started building a railway in the garden. After a lot of prevaricating finally joined the G-Scale Society - and, boy, what a difference!! No problem running what you want to as long as it runs on 45mm track - 1:22.5 European Metre Narrow gauge, 1:20.3 US 3ft Narrow Gauge, 1:18 2ft Narrow Gauge, 1:29 European and US Standard gauge - on track power, battery power, live steam. Open days are arranged locally where, weather permitting, a great time can be had by one and all.

 

Two clubs, two completely different clubs........just like chalk and cheese....

 

Keith

[Tim V]

I joined my local club when I was about 16, nearly 50 years ago. I left it when I was in my early 20s, but the relationships I formed with the modellers then have lasted down the years, some of the friends from those days are on this and other forums.

 

I think clubs do have a place.

[halfwit]

 

CRB's are required when:

You may have been asked to apply for a Standard or an Enhanced CRB check if:

 

you will be working with children or vulnerable adults;

you will be working in an establishment that is wholly or mainly for children;

you will be working in healthcare; or

you have applied to be a foster carer, adoptive parent or childminder.

 

Work definition obviously includes hobby/sports functions eg athletics clubs as well as scouts etc etc. Cost per applicant is around £40.

 

GAB =

CRB's are normally free (or at least used to be) if you are a volunteer at a club.

I used to coach at a kayak club and never paid for one.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Part of the CRB problem is just how long it takes!

[halfwit]

Part of the CRB problem is just how long it takes!

 

Which can be months for some people, a big problem when your job depends on one. I've always been lucky.

[The Stationmaster]

Part of the CRB problem is just how long it takes!

 

I have just been CRB'd (if that is the correct expression) for voluntary work with a 'vulnerable adult' (helping him build his model railway as it happens) and it only took about four weeks for it to come through. I understand that the new lot in Whitehall intend to make CRBs 'portable' to avoid the present stupidity of having to be done for each organisation you might happen to be involved.

[dibber25]

A while back we had the 'magazines are a waste of time, we've got RMweb we don't need paper magazines any more'.

Now we've got the 'all clubs are bad - we don't need clubs any more, we've got RMweb argument.'

There's good and bad clubs just the same as anything else in life. The one thing that advert does is to let people know very clearly just how 'welcome' they'll (not) be!

There's a huge amount of good stuff done in clubs and we shouldn't tar them all with the same brush.

On line forums aren't the be all and end all either - like magazines and like clubs they're a useful facet of the hobby, and you can pick and choose your club, your magazine or your on-line forum.

Let's have the CHOICE for as long as we can. High rents and ageing memberships are a big enough problem, even for those clubs with a warm, welcoming atmosphere - and in my experience, that's most of them.

CHRIS LEIGH

[PhilEakins]

I joined the Orpington club when I was 16 (just a few years ago then) and was welcomed and fitted right in. Brilliant chaps (no girls unfortunately) one or two of which are still on my Christmas card list, and are still there when I visit, about once every year.

 

Learned a heck of a lot about railways and railway modelling, and about getting along with people as well.

 

Perhaps I was lucky, but probably not as I've found exactly the same atmosphere visiting other clubs since then.

 

Phil

[Ruston]

When it comes to the subject of clubs, I'm with Groucho Marx.