Jump to content
 

West Highland coaching stock early 1980's


sixteen 12by 10s
 Share

Recommended Posts

Wanted for my train set “Glenuigâ€

 

Its one of those things, countless times I sat in trains, on the West Highland, but never noticed what type or the number of the coach I was sitting in or hanging out of the window of.

 

I am not that interested in train formations, there's not a lot you can do with a two coach train, more the types used, Ie, TSO....Mk1, and numbers. I would imagine that Mk1s were normal in the early 1980's and then getting replaced with cascaded Mk2's as they became available, and then the eventual demise of the steam heat stock with the introduction of the 37 4's.

 

 

 

 

Looking forward to the good help I get from forum members

 

 

 

 

Gary

Link to post
Share on other sites

do you mean the green and cream excursion stock????

 

if not then i say mark II's by the 80's.

 

as you said it's two carriages so its to your discretion. personally you would be able to get away with Mark ones still at that point in time anyway, i think the mark I's really started to get the boot in the mid 80's??? i could be wrong,

 

the highland excursion stock was Mk 1 i believe..... then they went to mk. 2's during the 80's or late 70's, my memory fails me!

 

hope this helps

 

:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

thanks

 

No, I am not looking for the excursion stock, just the normal service train stock, from what I can remember the best you could expect was that it had wheels under it!, even in the last days of loco hauled trains to get a coach that the heat worked was a bonus!.

 

 

 

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I have recently been sorting my photo archive and came across a few shots from a trip to Mallaig on 24/8/1983. We travelled from Crewe on the Royal Highlander and were shunted round Glasgow in the early hours to be attached to the first train from Queen St. The sleepers (and Euston seated coaches) were detached at Fort William. The remainer continued to Mallaig. All of the train was Mk1 stock, the Euston portion would have been SLF/SLSTP/TSO/BCK. The stock was dual heated, we had the steam heat on even in August when leaving Glasgow.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I know you were asking about coaching stock, but whilst looking at the scans of the negatives from our trip above, I found the picture below. It was Queen Mary brake van DS56292. I think it might have been at Crianlarich, but stand to be corrected if anyone can recognise the surrounding junk.

post-9767-0-87915000-1294672486_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Thanks for your help so far. If I can remember, Mk1 compartment stock was still in use in the late 1980's and it was prime “dossing†out accommodation, but I can't remember which bit of the Scottish system this would have been.

 

 

 

 

As for the Queen Mary bakevan, that I did not expect.

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Gary

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you've stated early '80s but below are a few rakes from July 1985. Hopefully they will give you a start...

 

6/7/85 37 049, 35451 (BSK), 4915 (TSO), 18384 (SK), 9012 (BSOT), 18260 (SK) All Mk1

6/7/85 37 026, 18284 (SK), 17095 (BFK), 7200 (CK), 7238 (CK), 18368 (SK), 18285 (SK), 9001 (BSOT) All Mk1 except 17095 (Mk2a with vacuum brakes)

8/7/85 37 263, 9011 (BSOT), 18289, 18405, 18252, 18384, 18309 (5 SKs) All Mk1

8/7/85 37 088, 21238 (BCK), 9003 (BSOT), 18896, 24885, 18251 (3 SKs) All Mk1

8/7/85 37 049, 18311 (SK), 7221 (CK), 4784, 4816, 4774 (3 TSOs), 9016 (BSOT) All Mk1

 

So in 1985 you're looking at virtually all Mk1 stock, mostly SKs with a BSOT (Brake Second Open with one seating bay removed for a micro buffet).

 

The Passenger Train Marshalling Book for 1982/3 states the use of 1 BSOT, 3 TSOs and 1 BFK to Oban and Fort William but I don't know how rigid this formation was.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gary,

 

Unashamed plug perhaps but I have posted a couple of vids on Youtube

and
. Both relate to 1986 and show a good mix of mk1 and early and later mark 2 stock - probably the most variety on the line in this respect since steam.

 

Pic below of 'typical' rake if such a thing existed - nice and short!!

 

post-3695-0-74857200-1294683142_thumb.jpg

 

37 402 approaches the Horseshoe curve with the 1T18 0840 Fort William - Glasgow QS. April 1986

 

And that Queen Mary (at Crianlarich)

 

post-3695-0-71441200-1294683161_thumb.jpg

 

I photographed this in August 1983 as well as April 1986 (above) so a long term resident!?

 

HTH

 

Bruce

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the Queen Mary bakevan, that I did not expect.

If it was really a bake van, you could have used it instead of the micro buffet!

The Queen (Mary) of Hearts

She baked some tarts

 

But seriously, those things did get around the country, and lasted a long while thanks to the air pipes/brakes on a lot of them, and probably the comfort factor too.

 

Back to the coaches, there's a 1989 pic of the Fort William sleeper

http://rniescottishailwayrchive.fotopic.net/p65126142.html

with a 37, two ScotRail Mk1s at the front, 2 air-con Mk2s in the middle and 2 Mk3 sleepers at the back.

I'd guess the Mk2s and 3s came through from Euston as overnight seating and sleeping respectively, while the Mk1s were added in Scotland for early morning passengers from Glasgow to FW?

Or vice versa on the last train of the day southbound?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

And that Queen Mary (at Crianlarich)

 

post-3695-0-71441200-1294683161_thumb.jpg

 

I photographed this in August 1983 as well as April 1986 (above) so a long term resident!?

 

HTH

 

Bruce

 

Had gained a bit of yellow paint and the grey had become a bit flaky since I snapped it. Obviously getting some use in those days.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Had gained a bit of yellow paint and the grey had become a bit flaky since I snapped it. Obviously getting some use in those days.

 

Yup, in my '83 pic it was looking quite spruce. 3 years in the baking Crianlarich sun had obviously taken it's toll....

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you've stated early '80s but below are a few rakes from July 1985. Hopefully they will give you a start...

 

6/7/85 37 049, 35451 (BSK), 4915 (TSO), 18384 (SK), 9012 (BSOT), 18260 (SK) All Mk1

6/7/85 37 026, 18284 (SK), 17095 (BFK), 7200 (CK), 7238 (CK), 18368 (SK), 18285 (SK), 9001 (BSOT) All Mk1 except 17095 (Mk2a with vacuum brakes)

8/7/85 37 263, 9011 (BSOT), 18289, 18405, 18252, 18384, 18309 (5 SKs) All Mk1

8/7/85 37 088, 21238 (BCK), 9003 (BSOT), 18896, 24885, 18251 (3 SKs) All Mk1

8/7/85 37 049, 18311 (SK), 7221 (CK), 4784, 4816, 4774 (3 TSOs), 9016 (BSOT) All Mk1

 

So in 1985 you're looking at virtually all Mk1 stock, mostly SKs with a BSOT (Brake Second Open with one seating bay removed for a micro buffet).

 

The Passenger Train Marshalling Book for 1982/3 states the use of 1 BSOT, 3 TSOs and 1 BFK to Oban and Fort William but I don't know how rigid this formation was.

 

Hi Flood

 

Sorry to highjack the thread slightly but do you have similar info for the late 80's period?

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I know you were asking about coaching stock, but whilst looking at the scans of the negatives from our trip above, I found the picture below. It was Queen Mary brake van DS56292. I think it might have been at Crianlarich, but stand to be corrected if anyone can recognise the surrounding junk.

Hi there,

 

Correct - Crianlarich it was.

 

Suppossed to be used on propelling moves of timber wagons into Crianlaich Lower.

 

Have a vague memory it didn't get a lot of use but can't remember why.

 

Rare to find photos of it though - thank for that. I've had the Bachmann model sat in a box since it was first released but was put off because there were so few photos.

 

Then 2 photos turn up in one day!

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Flood

 

Sorry to highjack the thread slightly but do you have similar info for the late 80's period?

 

Mike

Sorry Mike but that week in 1985 was the one holiday I've ever had in Scotland. Oh well, at least I made it there once. :blink: :blush:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the info, and taking advantage of my typo. (I make enough of them!!) :lol:

No problem with posting anything like that on one of my threads, anything with an EE power unit in is acceptable.

The propelling move with the Queen Mary makes sense, for a while I thought one would put in an appearance at Glenuig on an engineers train.

Thanks all

Tarts are done

Gary

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I have a 1982 Scottish Region carriage working book (with a few pages missing). It was up in PDF form on my Yahoo Group and can still be made available.

 

Hi Robert,

 

That's that book I'd love to have available on the Scottish Modellers grooup as well!

 

Very useful set of information.

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent a lot of time in Scotland in 1989, making the most of the loco hauleds before the 156 invasion.

The West Highland had lost nearly all its SKs by then, MK1s were still in use, but nearly all opens. Early Mk2s seemed to have replaced the SKs.

The far North and Kyle lines still had SKs, good for a kip on the 06:25 Wick/Thurso.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the photos that I have recently scanned from 1987 and 1988 in Scotland show that the West Highland trains were then Mk2's. I have seen formations not change as they have worked for donkey years. There were a few Mk2 BSOT's in Scotland, I have a photo of one on a Far North train. I think that there replaced the MkI BSOT's. The West Highland line looks to be 2*SO + BSOT from the shots taken on the train, with the usual large logo 37/4.

 

Edit: Anyone remember the Mexican Bean?

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first came here in 87, the really interesting feature was that Mallaig had a through train to London! It was never advertised as such though.

At that time the Ft Wm - Mallaig service was nearly seperate from the Glasgow - Ft Wm service. The midday Ft Wm - Mallaig used the stock of the early morning QS - Ft Wm train which included the day coach from the sleeper. This was a Mk2d and Mk2As. On arrival back in Ft Wm late afternoon, the stock continued through to QS (the only Mallaig-QS through train, in either direction), with addition of Mk3 sleepers, and on arrival at QS the Mk3s and Mk2d continued to Euston (via Stirling!).

Hence a through Mallaig - Euston train!

 

(Edit) Can't find a pic online, but there's a few of nice photos in "The West Highland Mallaig Extention in BR days" by Tom Noble (Pub. OPC). They clearly show a air-con Mk2 with 2 Mk1s (not Mk2As as I said earlier!) with the Mk2 at the Mallaig end of the train.

 

And, of course, don't forget the mixed trains (Mk1s or Mk2s and OTA tanks) that continued to run right up to the end of loco-hauled passenger trains...

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

-there are some pics in OPC profile of Classes 26/27 with one of mk1 (SO or SK) and one of the early type mk2 which is all first class/brake ie (BFK)- just the 2 coaches (but also with a couple of oil tankers popped on the back :lol:) I dont think I've seen in that (27-hauled period) any Mk2's that weren't first class brakes on either that or the Oban line in that book.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I have recently been looking to pseudo-model the West Highland Line / Kyle of Lochalsh Line about 1980 onwards. Well, it's a branch line that could be pretty much anywhere in the UK. I've picked up a book that has lots of pictures of diesel-hauled trains in the Highlands - 'Diesels in the Highlands' by Andrew Vines, Ian Allan Publishing. Then it is just a game of trying to identify the coach types. I think there is an even larger book out on diesels in Scotland.

Also, on Michael Palin's Great Reilway Journey in the UK in 1980 he finished his journey going from Mallaig towards Glasgow. The train he caught was a class 27 (Iwould reckon), haulling 2 coaches - Mk1 SK (or SO) and Mk1 BSK (or BSO).

Whatever formation you have there should be at least one Brake coach.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

My memories of visits during the 1980s is that up until the late 80s most of the trains were Mk1s or a mixture of Mk1s and early Mk2s. Later Mk2s could not have made an appearance on the West Highland and Kyle/Far North lines until the 37/4s arrived in (IIRC) 1986, they were the first locos fitted with ETH to match the later carriages. The only exception to this was the sleeper with the ETHELS providing power for the heating and air-con.

 

I would recommend 'The West Highland Mallaig Extension in BR Days' by Tom Noble (OPC) which has plenty of photos, mostly Mk1 with a smattering of early Mk2. Remember that the 37/4s lasted only a short time before the 156s took over, I think the late Mk2s would generally be fairly rare.

 

Martin

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only remember Mark 1 coaches operating between Glasgow QS and Oban / Fort William

 

I remember a small number of Mark 2 (vacuum brake) coaches operating between Aberdeen and Inverness, but the services north of Inverness were also Mark 1

These Mark 1 coaches weren't replaced until sprinters started to arrive

The Mark 2 coaches between Aberdeen and Inverness were replaced by air braked versions, which cascaded the vacuum brakes ones to replace the Mark 1 coaches

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...