Fuel Storage Tanks @ Stabling Points

[kevblokey]

I am looking towards a small stabling point layout (about six locos capacity), having had a look at the new twin storage tanks coming from Bachmann Scenecraft (44-016, think), I can't help but feel theses would be too large for such a small establishment, am I right to be of this belief? Can anyone suggest what the smaller alternative would be? Also, is there a suitable kit/ready built of the smaller establishment I could play around with? Any prototype pictures?

 

You get the idea.

 

Ta!

[hmrspaul]

You might get some inspiration here "Tank wagon barrels as stores" http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/c965002.html

Very mixed, but some are on BR territory.

 

You don't mention what scale you are interested in, but there are kits for similar items - I used a Ten Commandments in 7mm http://ebormodelrail.fotopic.net/p62302384.html

 

Paul Bartlett

[Russ (mines a pint)]

there is a ratio kit for a 'small fuel depot' which I believe uses tank barrels that are either from or similar to those on wagons, they used to be common on layouts until the pre-made scenecraft and skaledale type stuff came out.

 

-if you want to build your own there are useful tanks also in the knightwing range of kits. plastic jars and bottles can also be useful building aids, if you prefer something more individual.

[The Stationmaster]

Many stabling points have never had any sort of fuelling facility so you could as easily not include any as you could include them. If you do include them then beware - oil storage above a certain capacity requires a bund wall to be built round the tank area to contain any splillage (as shown in some of HMRS Paul's pics linked above) and I believe that officially an interceptor is required to avoid ground/water contamination from any spillage occurring during fuelling although some sites seemed not to have them.

[kevblokey]

You might get some inspiration here "Tank wagon barrels as stores" http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/c965002.html

Very mixed, but some are on BR territory.

 

You don't mention what scale you are interested in, but there are kits for similar items - I used a Ten Commandments in 7mm http://ebormodelrail.fotopic.net/p62302384.html

 

Paul Bartlett

 

The reason I didn't mention the scale is because I am an idiot! I am working in 4mm. Thanks for the replies thus far.

[kevblokey]

Many stabling points have never had any sort of fuelling facility so you could as easily not include any as you could include them. If you do include them then beware - oil storage above a certain capacity requires a bund wall to be built round the tank area to contain any splillage (as shown in some of HMRS Paul's pics linked above) and I believe that officially an interceptor is required to avoid ground/water contamination from any spillage occurring during fuelling although some sites seemed not to have them.

 

I feel the need to have an excuse to run a short tanker rake is essential to break up the endless light loco moves. Maybe if fueling facilities are available, does this make it more than just a stabling point? At which point do I have a small mpd on my hands?

[The Stationmaster]

I feel the need to have an excuse to run a short tanker rake is essential to break up the endless light loco moves. Maybe if fueling facilities are available, does this make it more than just a stabling point? At which point do I have a small mpd on my hands?

 

 

I think the dividing line is 'once you start doing things to the locos' although I'm fairly sure it varied between the Regions. As far as we were concerned a 'stabling point' was exactly what it said on the tin - a place where locos were stabled but which had suitable ground conditions and lighting to enable a loco to be prepared in safety (Didcot was a longtime example of this). Next one up from that was a 'Fuel Point' - which is also self-explanatory but was also a place where what was at one time called a 'Fuel Point Exam' could be carried out (although that normally meant dmus and not locos). Next up was a 'Servicing Shed' where a loco could be fuelled, undergo an A or B Exam, plus work arising such as brake block renewal etc.

But practice did vary between the BR Regions and is now even more diverse among the various train operators.

[kevblokey]

I think the dividing line is 'once you start doing things to the locos' although I'm fairly sure it varied between the Regions. As far as we were concerned a 'stabling point' was exactly what it said on the tin - a place where locos were stabled but which had suitable ground conditions and lighting to enable a loco to be prepared in safety (Didcot was a longtime example of this). Next one up from that was a 'Fuel Point' - which is also self-explanatory but was also a place where what was at one time called a 'Fuel Point Exam' could be carried out (although that normally meant dmus and not locos). Next up was a 'Servicing Shed' where a loco could be fuelled, undergo an A or B Exam, plus work arising such as brake block renewal etc.

But practice did vary between the BR Regions and is now even more diverse among the various train operators.

 

 

All I wanted was a simple layout...

 

Thanks for the thoughts, this is great stuff!

 

 

[Guest stuartp]

If this link works, you should be looking at the fuel tanks at Sheffield Fuel Point. They seem to be some sort of containerised arrangement rather than the traditional tanks on brick piers arrangement but it might give you an idea of the quantities held there. DMUs rather than locos but hopefully more help than not.

[Fat Controller]

I feel the need to have an excuse to run a short tanker rake is essential to break up the endless light loco moves. Maybe if fueling facilities are available, does this make it more than just a stabling point? At which point do I have a small mpd on my hands?

Freightliner's operation at Ipswich seems to fit your bill- servicing facilities consisting of a fuel point, with a couple of Portakabins and containers (the latter for secure storage). All fuel deliveries have to be by rail, as road access is poor.

Similar 'fuel-only' points exist in other loacations, such as Peak Forest and East Usk, but the majority would probably use road tankers for fuel delivery.

[big T]

Probably a bit O.T.T - the fuel tanks at Toton:

 

http://bigtsrailimages.fotopic.net/p67771733.html

 

and Canton:

 

http://bigtsrailimages.fotopic.net/p64808060.html

 

(Half of )the two horizontal tanks at Saltley:

 

http://bigtsrailimages.fotopic.net/p67963063.html

 

Most small fuelling points I have seen consist of one or two vertical/horizontal steel tanks surrounded by a bund wall (to retain the contents of the tanks should they leak) with fill point and discharge pipework.

 

The majority tend to be painted red oxide by the look of them.

[marc smith]

Reading this thread with interest - thanks for asking the question!

 

Here are a few pics, taken at Margam. Appologies for the fuel tank being in the distance,

between the shunters! But you get a sense of location.....

 

I'm not 100% sure that ther closer view of the larger tank is fuel, but I think it would be.

Also, there's a pic of a waste oil tank around the back of the depot -

this could make an interesting feature, and one not so frequently modelled.

 

You could alternatively model an oil terminal, if you like running tankers?

Hornby make a ready to plant terminal, which could form the basis of a nice scene...

just a thought.

 

Cheers

Marc

[marc smith]

Me again!

Knightwing also do a nice little kit of a fuel / gas unloading platform.....

here's one on ebay

Knightwing fuel / gas unloading

 

Let us know how you get on

 

Marc

[Rivercider]

Exeter St. Davids Stabling/Fuelling point was/is larger than I think you are looking for.

Looking through photos I took in the early 1980's I can see a TTA/TTF? fuel tank in many pictures,

but cant see or remember there being any static fuel tank or walled compound or bund.

[kevblokey]

Thanks for the replies and particularly the pics taken at Margam, the correspondant who sent the pics of the tanks at Toton, thanks, but probably a bit of an overkill for six locos!

 

I feel I am favouring one or two horizontal tanks suitably walled in, I believe Knightwing do such a thing, if not I can cobble something together.

 

It's funny how such a seemingly simple question can provoke such discussion, but I guess that's why we enjoy the curios on what is our railway network!

 

The google maps link to Sheffield was all blurry.

 

Ipswich on a much reduced scale it is...

[marc smith]

Hi again,

 

As you say, lots of interest for a seemingly simple question!

But it's good to get as much inspiration as possible,

and looking at pics of as many of the "real thing" is always a good start.

That, and looking at what other modellers have done.....

 

One reason I like this forum, is that you get a good variety of ideas

and inspiration, from many different members, and you get to learn of products,

structures and rolling stock you may not have previously been aware of.

 

Some might think "it's another diesel depot" - but it's great to see a variety

of responses, and how different modelers would want to include a variety of different features....

One important tip is, try to include one or two structures which have been either

scratchbuilt, or at least modified.

That way you get something unique, with a less-identifiable off-the-shelf look to it.

 

Ratio also do a kit for horizontal tanks, plus the ladder / walkway between 2 tanks.

 

Watching with interest, so please keep us posted

 

Marc

[scottishlocos]

Hi All

 

A few small stbling points /depots that i know of are Fort William, Ayr, Thornton, St Blazey and Gloucester Horton Road.

If you are looking for a traffic to add other than fuel here are a few ideas

 

At Fort William until very recently logs were loaded onto OTA timber wagons in a siding at the depot OTA's are due out from Hornby in spring.

 

Also even small depots/fueling points had a van or older type of tank wagon as internal users thay would only be used within

the depot/fueling point vans for stores/tools/brake blocks etc and tanks for waste oil/liquids.

 

In addition box vans VEA VDA VBA VGA can be justifyed as bringing stores and parts from a larger depot or works.

 

Also depending on where your layout is set you can always have a few wagons from the local industry that have been detached from trains

for attention at the depot or awaiting transfer to a wagon works.

 

Below are a few links to the hattons website of wagons that could be useful to you hope this helps

 

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=22200

 

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=25535

 

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=32259

 

 

kind regards

 

Dave

[kevblokey]

Thanks Dave, what is there not to like about (aboot) Scottish railways?

[hmrspaul]

Hi All

Also even small depots/fueling points had a van or older type of tank wagon as internal users thay would only be used within

the depot/fueling point vans for stores/tools/brake blocks etc and tanks for waste oil/liquids.

 

Dave

 

Trying to stay nearer the topic, the storage of waste oil and also de-icer etc meant some remarkably old and varied wagons remained in use for a very long time. I don't think we have established the period being modelled by Kev and some of the more obtainable types - such as milk tanks have been mentioned. But these are a few SMBP444 of 1902 in detail as internal user 041204 http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c453208.html This is at Tinsley in 1993 and survived to be preserved. Or these very odd 'home made' WR tanks http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p66758795.html http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p66758794.html Or the LMS S&N beer tank used in Exeter http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p437904.html Other LMS creosote tanks survived for a long time in such use, and so did some earlier Midland Railway tanks (sorry not scanned these). And then in my BR tank wagon and demountable tank wagon collections many are in use at loco depots of various types

"BR Demountable tanks - beer departmental" (http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1702714.html

"BR Demountable tank Crosfields ZRV" http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1701928.html

BR tank wagons – various – Townson Tanker, Scottish Cables, McEwan Beer, Henry Diaper http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1705042.html

"BR 4-wheel Ferry tanks ZRP ZRR ZRQ" http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1704429.html

 

I hope of interest

 

Paul Bartlett

[kevblokey]

Thanks Paul, great link to the photos!

 

Just to confirm, I am trying to get away with running different period from the 1970s - 2000s.

 

Probably don't help I know...

[halfwit]

Some photos of the fuel tanks and pumps at Buxton shed, taken today.

These few were taken from the footpath behind the shed;

 

Two of the three pumps in front of the shed (I couldn't get a decent pic. of the third pump which is to the right);

 

A closer view of the nearer pump;

 

The end of the outer pump room;

 

End of a tank from the opposite end;

 

More to follow.

[halfwit]

These next photos were taken from the platform (the shed is next to the station);

 

An overall view of the tanks and pump rooms;

 

A closer view of the left hand side;

 

A closer view of the middle;

 

And a closer view of the right hand side;

 

The middle tank;

 

I hope that the above is usefull.

[kevblokey]

Poor Buxton, thanks for the great pics, and yes, very useful!

[reddiamond]

Here is an image of the storage tanks at Hitchin depot, taken on Friday. The depot is only big enough for two locos (currently used to store 56301/2). A photo survey of the depot was taken with many pics of the inside and outside, a nice scratchbuild job one day, maybe. A typical small BR(E) depot of its day.

 

Cheers

[welsh wizard]

You could always do Saltley that had a variety of stuff on as well as the fuel tanks (about 6 sometimes twice a week) we undertook light repairs to locomotives and there were 158 dmus stabled on the weekend and dunns scrap siding which was just off the shed no1 road and and had empty wagons delivered about three times a week and then worked to allied steel and wire in Cardiff usually by one of the 37/9s then there were preserved steam locos arriving for water as well as other preserved diesels working off the shed , the Deltic that was hired to intercity which was stabled on the shed between diagrams ,not to mention the Eurostar stock from met camm ,( Gen coaches and the 37s.!) any more info needed let me know !