[Caledonian]

By popular request I've put together a poll, listing the various options discussed on the earlier thread. While there is widespread support for a 439 it's been helpfully suggested that Hornby and Bachmann are more likely to respond positively to a package of two or three, hence the nine options listed here.

Essentially, we're looking at locos working on secondary services, which survived through to British Railways and will provide an unmistakeable Scottish identity for our layouts.

The only tank engine on the list is the 439. While there would obviously be support for an 0-6-0 or even an 0-4-0 shunting tank, I reckon this is something for the "second wave" and that those listed above have more chance of attracting interest from the manufacturers.

Thus far I've not attached any photos - so please feel free.

In response to a sensible suggestion, I've added an asterisk to those represented by preserved examples

[Caledonian]

I've prepared a draft letter to go to MREmag, Hornby Magazine and a couple of other likely candidates, any comments?

"A long-standing problem has been the lack of good quality RTR models of Scottish locomotives. It is of course possible to get by perfectly well with Black Fives and other LMS and LNER designed locomotives, to say nothing of the Standards, but there is still a crying need for one or more actual Scottish locomotives to impart the necessary signature.

The most obviously useful candidate is the Caledonian Railway's McIntosh designed 439 "standard passenger tank" which was pretty well ubiquitous in British Railways days, but there are a number of other equally worthy candidates and in order to demonstrate the likely level of support for a distinctively Scottish RTR locomotive to Messrs Hornby and Bachmann, interested parties are invited to log on to the poll currently being carried on the RMweb site and express their preferences for a package of three options to be forwarded to the manufacturers."

[Jamie]

# Caledonian 439 0-4-4T: http://steamingback..../p46983495.html
# Caledonian 298 (Jumbo) 0-6-0: http://steamingback..../p46958846.html
# Caledonian 812 0-6-0: http://kettlesgalore.../p62435536.html
# North British C/J36 0-6-0: http://steamingback..../p47094374.html
# North British "Glen" 4-4-0: http://steamingback..../p47094384.html
# North British "Scott" 4-4-0: http://kettlesgalore.../p62458047.html
# Caledonian Pickersgill 4-4-0: http://steamingback..../p46982594.html
# Caledonian "Dunalastair" 4-4-0: http://steamingback..../p47073713.html
# Great North of Scotland D41 4-4-0: http://steamingback..../p47008269.html

[stuartp]

Thanks Stuart ! I should really vote for the Scott, J36 and Dunalistair seeing as they're the only ones not languishing in the ruddy loft, but I haven't.

Jumbo, 812 and Pickersgill.

Got everywhere, pulled everything, plenty of variations to keep the collectors buying, not just seen in all-over black. They can even flog the 812 to the Thomas end of the market.

The fact that I don't actually need any more wouldn't stop me buying one of each either.

A D41 in GNSR green would be something else though !

[Edited to remove the bit where I'm talking tosh again]

[steamrailuk]

Added my votes guys, a very good selection to choose from there. Fingers crossed this will help our case in getting rtr scottish locomotives.

19 votes in about 9 hours, at this rate this poll will definetly show how strong our request is for scottish locomotives.

Its definetly certain the 439 is our top choice with all the 0-6-0's close behind

[Caledonian]

steamrailuk, on 03 February 2010 - 23:16 , said:

Added my votes guys, a very good selection to choose from there. Fingers crossed this will help our case in getting rtr scottish locomotives.

19 votes in about 9 hours, at this rate this poll will definetly show how strong our request is for scottish locomotives.

Its definetly certain the 439 is our top choice with all the 0-6-0's close behind

We'll see how it goes a bit further on but we may need a run-off on the 0-6-0s, given that the Jumbo and 812 are so close both in terms of votes and size/shape/appearance - yes they are different but not enough for a manufacturer to produce both.

[60B]

At this point, the 439 is just ahead with the J36 catching up.

[iak]

Done and bring on the beasties.....

[stephensontherocket]

Well, I voted for an 0-4-4T a 4-4-0 and an 0-6-0.
That would be a nicely balanced stud locally and gives the manufacturers lots of marketing angles. I hope they have the courage. I would vote with my wallet for at least 2 of each.
stephensontherocket

[Pennine MC]

Caledonian, on 04 February 2010 - 07:00 , said:

We'll see how it goes a bit further on but we may need a run-off on the 0-6-0s, given that the Jumbo and 812 are so close both in terms of votes and size/shape/appearance - yes they are different but not enough for a manufacturer to produce both.

Would it be best for the votes for the 298 and 812 to be aggregated, given that anyone who voted for the one would still buy t'other? Or have some people voted for both...

[Jamie]

Four overlapping votes between the two CR 0-6-0s by my counting. And yep, I'm one of them.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Looks like the 439 & J36 are a 'country mile' in front I voted for more than 0-6-0 I must admit, before I got back into the hobby in any seriousness I would have instantly recognised these two types- its more through this thread and its links that I recognise the others! Thanks also Jamie for straightforward links to the 'others' !

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Caledonian, on 03 February 2010 - 13:38 , said:

I've prepared a draft letter to go to MREmag, Hornby Magazine and a couple of other likely candidates, any comments?

"A long-standing problem has been the lack of good quality RTR models of Scottish locomotives. It is of course possible to get by perfectly well with Black Fives and other LMS and LNER designed locomotives, to say nothing of the Standards, but there is still a crying need for one or more actual Scottish locomotives to impart the necessary signature.

The most obviously useful candidate is the Caledonian Railway's McIntosh designed 439 "standard passenger tank" which was pretty well ubiquitous in British Railways days, but there are a number of other equally worthy candidates and in order to demonstrate the likely level of support for a distinctively Scottish RTR locomotive to Messrs Hornby and Bachmann, interested parties are invited to log on to the poll currently being carried on the RMweb site and express their preferences for a package of three options to be forwarded to the manufacturers."

I would insert 'steam' in the 'long-standing problem' paragraph or people will be wondering why all those Heljan diesel classes 17/26/27 were not appreciated as they are largely ScR related, it could come across as being ungrateful?

[PGN]

The Dunalastair II would invite a special edition in that rather gorgeous chocolate brown Belgian livery, would it not??

[stuartp]

Pennine MC, on 04 February 2010 - 23:19 , said:

Would it be best for the votes for the 298 and 812 to be aggregated, given that anyone who voted for the one would still buy t'other? Or have some people voted for both...

I voted for both, but on the basis that there was enough commonality of parts to do both with minimal re-tooling (viz - the various Ivatt/BR Std 2-6-0s already produced). However, I must have been half asleep at the time because that's obviously complete nonsense - the only thing they have in common is the number of wheels and the diameter. (It's the 812 and 300 which are similar). Sorry.

So on that basis I'm happy for the votes to be aggregated if that's the consensus.

[Caledonian]

stuartp, on 05 February 2010 - 10:29 , said:

I voted for both, but on the basis that there was enough commonality of parts to do both with minimal re-tooling (viz - the various Ivatt/BR Std 2-6-0s already produced). However, I must have been half asleep at the time because that's obviously complete nonsense - the only thing they have in common is the number of wheels and the diameter. (It's the 812 and 300 which are similar). Sorry.

So on that basis I'm happy for the votes to be aggregated if that's the consensus.

I'd be happy to put forward a proposal for a 439, a J36 and a Caley 0-6-0 as these are shaping up to be the clear favourites and in an ideal world we might see Hornby doing one and Bachmann the other. I suggest we leave things as they are at least until the end of next week and then do another poll for a run-off between the Jumbo and 812.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Well there's a surprise, votes by what must be by now about 40 modeller types, sees a focus on 0-6-0 prototypes. But does this in any way reflect what the general market is likely to find attractive? (Make no mistake, it is 0-6-0 types I want, and even those based 300 miles from where I model are going to be purchased, because they are 'the' locomotive of the steam age railway.) But do they have the necessary appeal to attract more casual off the shelf purchases, recognising that this is what counts in making a model a commercial success. Need to work every angle here: Scottish character loco that might open a market sector; preserved (preferably working) specimens; most varied and colourful livery options, even any TTTE tie in.

[Northern Maiden]

The 0-6-0 "Jumbo", Pickersgill and the 439 for me

[26power]

Whilst I've voted I think there might be a better chance of pursuading Hornby by as many people as possible remembering to suggest such locos on their questionnaire/comments sheet at the upcoming Glasgow exhibition.

Cheers,

26power

[52D]

Hi I know Smokey joe is a Neilson built Caledonian prototype but with a little thought and improvement to the chassis a range of Locomotives could be built from it that would suit most modellers of the Scottish scene (and some English ones too).
Myself at the moment am converting Hornbys prototype to an NBR/LNER Y9 as Neilsons supplied the basic 0-4-0 to several UK companies.
What i would suggest is that the original Smokey Joe chassis is overhauled with due attention to motion etc. From this overhauled chassis three basic mainline companies locomotives can be represented Caledonian, North British and Great Eastern with numerous interesting Industrial types as well.
The choice and variation of colour schemes among the mainline companies is varied and if you bring in the Industrial users is almost limitless. This i feel would be a quick way of representing more Scottish prototypes.
For new builds i definitely agree with the J36 although an NBR Atlantic would be nice.

[Caledonian]

26power, on 07 February 2010 - 03:22 , said:

Whilst I've voted I think there might be a better chance of pursuading Hornby by as many people as possible remembering to suggest such locos on their questionnaire/comments sheet at the upcoming Glasgow exhibition.

Cheers,

26power

Its all part of the process thanks; what I'd like to do is get a clear consensus as to what we want ahead of the Glasgow show and then try to get everybody else there behind the three choices, rather than firing off in all sorts of different directions.

We'll still keep the poll running for a while yet, but I think its interesting that although there's always been talk in wish list threads about Dunalastairs and the like; despite given three votes to play with, there's a very clear demand for a a 439 and both Caley and North British 0-6-0s at the expence of the 4-4-0s.

[60B]

The 812 was quite far ahead of most of the competition but now seems to have dropped far back.

[Jamie]

Aye, but we're still looking at a CR 0-6-0/NB 0-6-0/CR 0-4-4T line up.

Impressed with the numbers voting already, thanks all who've taken part - very interesting to see the ScR interest, and division thereof
Still need more to take part though, if we can find them.

[60B]

If the letter is in the magazines before the end of the month, then we might have a clearer view.

[Max Stafford]

52D, on 07 February 2010 - 11:53 , said:

From this overhauled chassis three basic mainline companies locomotives can be represented Caledonian, North British and Great Eastern with numerous interesting Industrial types as well.

I think you may well have identified a significant leverage point for Hornby there, Tweedmouth!

Dave.