[Caledonian]

Have to disagree; on an earlier discussion on Atlantics, possibly in a galaxy far far away, it was pointed out that the real cost of developing a new locomotive isn't in the chassis but in the body-shell and detailing. Therefore a body-shell which can be used for multiple identities is a good plus point but mounting different body-shells - say umpteen different Atlantics on the same chassis is nowhere near as attractive.

As to Atlantics, they were never considered for the poll for the simple reason that while the NBR Reid Atlantic was a magnificent beast none made it into British Railways and so Hornby and Bachmann won't touch it.

[Legend]

Quote

View Post26power, on 07 February 2010 - 03:22 , said:
Whilst I've voted I think there might be a better chance of pursuading Hornby by as many people as possible remembering to suggest such locos on their questionnaire/comments sheet at the upcoming Glasgow exhibition.

Cheers,

26power


Its all part of the process thanks; what I'd like to do is get a clear consensus as to what we want ahead of the Glasgow show and then try to get everybody else there behind the three choices, rather than firing off in all sorts of different directions.

We'll still keep the poll running for a while yet, but I think its interesting that although there's always been talk in wish list threads about Dunalastairs and the like; despite given three votes to play with, there's a very clear demand for a a 439 and both Caley and North British 0-6-0s at the expence of the 4-4-0s.

Other thing to consider is the 2010 Wish list which is about to kick off on MREmag. Might I suggest we vote with a common interest in this one too?

[60B]

I voted for a few in the poll. Yes, it is in full flow.

[JeremyC]

I very slightly disagree with the list of choices in the poll [without there being anything wrong with them]. I would have suggested all the 'Scottish 4' be included. This means there is 1 maybe 2 loco(s) missing, the Jones Goods and possibly 123, though the latter has of course been available recently albeit as a rather old model and has the disadvantage of being a 'one off'.

My reason for commenting is the list seems to be an enthusiast's list [fine by me], whereas I think the 'Scottish 4' would be popular in the mass market, which would seem to be important if the model is to be commercially successful.

For those not familiar with the 'Scottish 4' they are Glen Douglas [D34]; Gordon Highlander [D40]; HR 103 [Jones Goods] and CR 123.

[Looking again at the list there is a possible error in that a D41 is one of the choices. If the intention was to include 'Gordon Highlander' then this should be D40.]

Jeremy

[Legend]

Oh no not the 123 again! Please don't give Hornby another excuse to bring this out in substitution for a 21st Century model. Fair point on the Jones Goods though I'd forgotten all about it!

[Caledonian]

I'm not sure that "enthusiasts" is the right word; if its just a question of something pretty Hornby already have their 123 and seemingly no incentive to go to the trouble of replacing it.

The point of the poll and the discussion that preceded it was to establish the best choice of Scottish locomotives for a working layout and that, like it or not means locomotives which ran in British Railways black. A Jones Goods would be nice; I might even buy a decent one, but what I really want are working locomotives rather than preserved exotics.

[Pennine MC]

Caledonian, on 07 February 2010 - 20:51 , said:

The point of the poll and the discussion that preceded it was to establish the best choice of Scottish locomotives for a working layout and that, like it or not means locomotives which ran in British Railways black. A Jones Goods would be nice; I might even buy a decent one, but what I really want are working locomotives rather than preserved exotics.

I'd agree there, without sounding like we're making demands of the manufacturers it is a bit of an 'it's these or nothing' submission.

That said, and not wanting to divert too much further at this stage, one possibility not yet mentioned is the Director, which of course has a potential English spinoff and might go some way to addressing Gilbert's point about including something 'green and named'?

[Legend]

Quote

That said, and not wanting to divert too much further at this stage, one possibility not yet mentioned is the Director, which of course has a potential English spinoff and might go some way to addressing Gilbert's point about including something 'green and named'?

Pennine

Didn't the Director appear in the LNER poll? If so its probably already well covered and indeed a manufacturer may already be working on it. We can all hope!

While not a pre requisite the Director only appeared after the grouping in Scotland. And while I'd certainly have one were it produced, going for a 439, Jumbo or J36 would give pre grouping possibilities and enable CR Blue or NBR liveries , which I think is an important point for marketing

[Churchill8F]

If they make them, Two 812's and a 439 for me

[Max Stafford]

The Director will be announced next month...!

Dave.

[stephensontherocket]

What I don't understand is why they don't produce a Glen, or several. It was a mainstay of the West Highland (internationally popular) Line for many years. They have a huge opportunity to produce a Glen, a K4 and a Black 5 or two with tourist stock coaches of two major periods (at least)..
What is wrong with them?
Seriously...?
stephensontherocket

[Max Stafford]

Stephenson, the whole purpose of our poll here is to gather hard evidence of the desire for Scottish prototypes. There's nothing wrong with 'them', as you put it, but it's up to us to state a mature and balanced argument with supporting evidence that it will be worth the manufacturers' while to produce a small selection of signature Scottish items. You can help by completing the poll and the MREmag wishlist survey. If we present our case well then the manufacturers will respond.

Dave.

[Hammer]

Legend, on 07 February 2010 - 16:45 , said:

Oh no not the 123 again! Please don't give Hornby another excuse to bring this out in substitution for a 21st Century model. Fair point on the Jones Goods though I'd forgotten all about it!

Personally, I'm very happy with my 123, although purely as a display piece with a Glasgow connection rather then as anything I'd ever run

[Poor Old Bruce]

I'd go for a 498 0-6-0 Dock Tank. One even made it down to Burton-on-Trent, it would make a cracking loco for a C&HP area layout.

Richard

[stephensontherocket]

Can anyone suggest a good source for NB improved engine green for my forthcoming Glens etc and claret for the coaches , Caley blue also please (I think I will use my Hornby coaches and put up with the innacuracies as there is no way I could do any better (though I know they and others could do as well with new prototypes)
I was even musing as I walked home about digital starter sets from all sorts of places with small modifications to existing stock...what about an 0-4-0 and an 0-6-0 in Caley blue(passenger)and black (goods) with semi appropriate stock, a North British similar, any English region you wish to choose...etc
..musings?...just give me time!

Wisbech and Upwell Tramway, anyone?
(my Henriettas arrived today, at last)
stephensontherocket

[Pennine MC]

stephensontherocket, on 09 February 2010 - 18:33 , said:

Can anyone suggest a good source for NB improved engine green for my forthcoming Glens etc and claret for the coaches , Caley blue also please

I'm sure somebody can - in the correct area, somewhere like 'Questions and Help' for instance

[stephensontherocket]

Well, it was inspired by this question and the suggestion that the current 0-4-0s could be easily modified to suit lots of alternatives. I don't want to usurp the poll at all, but, following on, I really took up on the idea of modifying some current offerings from the majors: the rest just flowed. I will try to work it out.
stephensontherocket

[Timble]

I've added another for the 439, practically a standard class, usable from pre-grouping era to the 1960s and plenty of livery variations. And the NBR 0-6-0 because there aren't enough 0-6-0s. (I'd like a small Ben, but that'll have to wait, until the maunfacturers can be convinced there's be enough interest in Scottish prototypes).

[PGN]

Max Stafford, on 07 February 2010 - 22:44 , said:

The Director will be announced next month...!

Dave.

A little birdie tells me that, provided you switch to N, you may have your Director sooner than you think ...

[Invicta]

Caledonian, on 07 February 2010 - 20:51 , said:

I'm not sure that "enthusiasts" is the right word; if its just a question of something pretty Hornby already have their 123 and seemingly no incentive to go to the trouble of replacing it.

The point of the poll and the discussion that preceded it was to establish the best choice of Scottish locomotives for a working layout and that, like it or not means locomotives which ran in British Railways black. A Jones Goods would be nice; I might even buy a decent one, but what I really want are working locomotives rather than preserved exotics.

I think I'd agree with that as well- it's the 'working' locos that ought to be the priority here, rather than 'exotica' (although personally I can use the disclaimer that as a non-Scottish pre-48 modeller, the Jones Goods and 123 aren't quite as 'off-topic' for me as they would be for a BR modeller- I could more or less justify them as working locos in terms of period, even if location would be more of a stretch- I'd certainly snap up a 'state-of-the'art' version of either if they were available)

[John McL]

Hi all

I hope you don't mind me throwing in a little something for you here... I'm not a modeller but one of the admins on the srpssteam website, I picked up this thread when looking at links to our site.

I noticed that one of the contenders in the mix is the J36 and that you're looking for information to back up any nominations to the manufacturers. Something that may be of interest to yourselves, the manufacturers and the general public is that fact that in a few years time we'll be reaching the 100th aniversary of the outbreak of WW1 in 1914. One less well known fact is that located at Bo'ness is one of the last (or perhaps the only) surviving UK mainline steam locomotive to have served in France during that period. J36 - Maude.

Maybe not of importance right now, but I'm sure that in a few years time there might be a lot of interest in a J36 model to help push up sales.

Just thought I'd let you know...

Regards,

John McLachlan

[Caledonian]

Thanks John

As you'll obviously have noticed the J36 looks like being one of the three we're going to push for and that information is certainly going to help when we put the sales pitch together - probably next week.

[Caledonian]

Just a quickie before the site shuts down tonight; with 80 members casting their votes the results are pretty clear:

49 votes for the McIntosh 439
46 votes for the J36
37 votes for the Caley Jumbo

Adding the eight voters for the 419 who didn't also vote for a Jumbo, the latter rises to 45 votes.

I'm rather heartened by this unanimity, despite the usual talk of Dunalastairs and the like in wish lists, when it comes down to the crunch people seem pretty clear about what they really need.

What we need to do now is take this forward, not just to Hornby and Bachmann, but out to the wider world through the Glasgow show and the upcoming wishlist poll and make sure that everybody rallies around these choices rather than firing off in all directions.

I would certainly buy all three before anything else.

[great northern]

My first reaction to the poll is that you have done modellers in general a favour, because your results validate still further the to me very clear signs that what people now want is workhorses rather than prima donnas. You will still have to overcome the reluctance to provide us with 0.6.0 tender engines, but a well reasoned argument backed by figures can only help push the manufacturers in the right direction.

I wholeheartedly agree with Caledonian that you must all now stick to what you have agreed. if everyone just goes back to beating the drum for their own personal preferences when the annual wish list opens, all that you have so far achieved will rapidly be lost. Once again, good luck , and may your efforts pay off.

[Caledonian]

First Draft of letter to Messrs Hornby and Bachmann:

Dear

Scottish Locomotives

As you will be aware there has been a long standing desire for native Scottish locomotives to supplement the post-grouping types such as Black Fives, B1s and of course the Standard classes, which are currently the only RTR models available to the Scottish modeller.

A recent Scottish Locomotives poll on the RMweb site has proved a great success and produced a surprising and quite heartening unanimity as to what is required. Over the course of a month a total of 81 participants, armed with three votes apiece on a wide slate of popular locomotives ranging from the McIntosh 439 Standard Tank to Glens and Dunalastairs, overwhelming voted for the 438 (50); J36 (47); and Caledonian Jumbo (45), with the rest effectively coming nowhere.

The reasons given both during the poll and the earlier wide ranging discussion which produced the short-list, was that notwithstanding the glamour of the Glen or the Dunalastair, modellers really wanted working locomotives and in particular 0-6-0 tender locomotives – a sentiment apparently much shared by modellers from other regions.

Profiles of all three locomotives are attached and you will note that they represent large classes, displaying a variety of liveries over their lifetimes, ranging from Caledonian blue to British Railways grime.

They were all three, in short, ubiquitous and indeed a pair of J36s were the last steam locomotives run by British Railways in Scotland.

We have no doubt that the results of the RMweb poll will be reflected in the upcoming annual wish-list poll and would be pleased to see any or all of these models in future catalogues.

Yours Sincerely

Stuart Reid