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The Locomotive shop - Dean Goods 2322 part 1


drduncan

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While I have been mulling over the horror story that has been 2811's progress (or lack of it) since the early summer - as detailed in The Locomotive shop- 28xx no 2811 - I have been making slow but steady progress with 2301 class or Dean Goods class no 2322. The loco is based on the familiar Mainline/Hornby model - a bit long in the tooth, but capable of making a high quality model, especially with a replacement chassis (essential if you work in EM or one of the even wider 4mm scale gauges...).

 

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Coincidentally, this version of the Hornby Dean Goods (culled from internet) is actually numbered 2322!

 

The Mainline/Hornby model is of a Belpaire boilered loco, a relative rarity in the early 20th century; the changes of boiler type for each 2301 class member can be found in the RCTS Locomotives of the Great Western Railway - Six wheeled tender engines, Vol 4. The Mainline/Hornby model is also of a loco with an extended smoke box - something that is not recorded in the RCTS information on the Dean Goods. So what is really needed is a picture of the loco. Fortunately in Locomotives Illustrated 55, there was a picture of 2322 with a Belpaire boiler, what looks like an extended smokebox and clearly in the GWR's pre 1906 livery. Perfect.

 

Incidentally, if any one has any picture references for Dean Goods locos with Belpaire boilers (either B4 with the dome on the rear ring, or B2 boilers with the dome on the front ring) that are positively dated to 1914 or earlier, I'd love to hear from you - especially if you have a good picture of the front of 2322 in 1901 condition or 2336 in 1903 condition as seen in RCTS Locos of the GWR vol 4 image D140 (but the photo is too poor to make out the important detail).

blogentry-21453-0-50578700-1416431028.jpg

 

Now, the tender is almost certainly a Dean 2500 gallon, rather than the 3000 gallon supplied by Hornby, so one can't have everything and I may in due course replace it with a 2500 gallon version - if I can find one. perhpas Falcon Brass when the get back into production...

 

Being an EM type, a replacement chassis for both loco and tender was on the cards. There were three choices:

  • The Ron Neep/Perseverence/Chris Parish chassis kit for both loco and tender (if you can get one)
  • The Comet Models offerings (getting one now, following the very sad death of Geoff Brewin, might be very hard)
  • The High Level Kits offerings

I plumped for the High Level Kits option for both loco and tender, having had a chance to examine the kits closely at ExpoEM, as the kits seemed to be well designed, come with inside motion for the loco, a good standard of detailing and the loco chassis also included the gear box.

 

Having got home I got everything out for a good gloat. I have to say that on opening the boxes and above all when reading the instructions I was left feeling rather overwhelmed and more than a little intimidated by the apparent complexity of the kits. So I decided to start with the tender as this seemed to marginally less complex than the loco.

 

I'm very happy to say that my fears were completely groundless. Yes, the instructions go on for pages - but they are designed to lead you through step by comprehensive step. No, 'assemble X and Y together in the normal way' - you are told exactly what to do, in what order, using what components, often with reference to one of the many diagrams; it will even give advice on the tightness of otherwise of the intended final fit of the components. Quite frankly, I wish other kit designers would take note of the comprehensiveness of the instructions - and it is a case of comprehensive, not complex. The High Level Kits might cost a bit more, but by God they are worth it.

 

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The design of the loco and tender chassis kits has proven to be as good - if not better - than the instructions. In the tender kit there are components whose fit is so precise that soldering is not needed! The loco chassis is equally well designed and again I can only say, others out there take note - you know who you are....

 

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Having made good progress with the tender chassis I also started working in parallel on the loco chassis. I'm now up to the stage where the compensation has to be fitted and then its on to brake gear and final details. It has been a delight so far and a real morale boost after the problems with 2811.

 

For the future, there will need to be work on the cab roof, on the position of the chimney, and possibly the length of the smoke box - I'm going to dig out my Martin Finney Dean goods kit and have a good look at the parts and instructions to double check the possible options (in case you are wondering why I'm doing up a mainline Dean Goods when I've got a martin finnery Kit...time, money, and I've only got one, so it will be built - eventually - as a round topped boiler version).

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Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I am half way through a Comet chassis upgrade for the same Hornby superstructure.  All going well so far but I have been forced to put the project on hold for a few more weeks.

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There are almost enough parts in the Finney kit to build two engines, so you could end up with three Dean Goods if you're prepared to make a few parts!

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There are almost enough parts in the Finney kit to build two engines, so you could end up with three Dean Goods if you're prepared to make a few parts!

 

I know. Its an exciting prospect!

D

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Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I am half way through a Comet chassis upgrade for the same Hornby superstructure.  All going well so far but I have been forced to put the project on hold for a few more weeks.

 

Do share your experiences of the comet chassis. I have a comet 28xx chassis on its way to me but I've never built a comet chassis before so any advice is appreciated!

D

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  • RMweb Gold

Like Focalplane I am also in the middle of a Comet chassis build, so I will also be watching this with interest. Personally I am struggling to get enough grunt out of the recommended gearbox/motor combination of the Comet model.

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  • RMweb Gold

What is the comet dean goods gearbox motor combination? D

 

It's a 38:1 with a Mashima 1015.

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It's a 38:1 with a Mashima 1015.

 

That's a crazy combination. The 1015 is quite powerful and ideal for small tanks, but it is a high reving motor. With a 38:1 box the theoretical max speed in a Dean Goods would be getting on for 80mph. You'll only be using a small part of its rev range at sensible speeds and thus only a fraction of its available power. 50:1 or 60:1 would be much more suitable, as would the larger 1020 motor (similar max revs but more powerful).

 

Nick

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  • RMweb Gold

Nick

 

That very much sums up the problems I'm having - torque is fine at high speeds, but no good at the typical plod of a goods engine. I started a thread on my problems a while ago:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90035-mashima-1015-motor-low-torque-problem/

 

Since I have now tried a third 1015, and found the same weakness in all three motors, I think you are right in that the gearbox is not well matched to the motor characteristics for this application.

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My Comet chassis has a roadrunner driving the rear axle with a1420 vertical in the firebox. Just fits and provides loads of power. It will eventually get so hot that the body melts though.

 

If I was doing another plastic Dean Goods I would not do the same.

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Is there space for a 1024? ...

 

Maybe, my Martin Finney has a 1020 horizontally mounted in the (round top) boiler and uses a 60:1 High Level Load Hauler Compact+ with D2 drive stretcher. It's a bit fiddly to get the motor into the boiler when putting the body o the chassis, so a 1024 might be marginal. Whether the extra space in the Hornby Belpaire would help, I don't know.

 

Nick

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Dear quarryscapes

I'm very interested! How might I get hold of one? I have a parallel chimney for a dean goods and I'll pm you the dimensions in the next few days...

Duncan

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