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Building an old Toad (part 4)


Gingerbread

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I recently stumbled across an interesting article covering old Toads. It was written by John Lewis, apparently published in January 1983 in a publication called "Scale Trains" (which I don't recognise), and formed the first part of a five-part series. A couple of copies of these articles are available in the files section of the Yahoo GWR-elist, in different formats. It provides some useful background information for the one I modelled, so I thought it worthwhile to summarise that here.

 

The type of Toad which I modelled is referred to by John Lewis as the 1882 type.

 

The earliest type covered is the 1871 type, which was of the same general design (wooden outside frames for the body), but with wooden underframe and only 15'6" long with 9' wheelbase. Axleboxes were grease, and brakes were of wagon type, with four wooden blocks. Initially they had no roofs to the verandahs, but roofs appear to have been added to some of them between 1880 and 1885. Various heights were recorded in the register, between 5'6" and 8', but it's not clear whether this represents variation in construction or just in method of measuring (inside/outside, including/excluding solebar, etc).

 

About 300 appear to have been built, and typically they lasted until about 1900. Photographs are rare.

 

Next comes the 1874 type, where dimensions increased to the same as my model - namely 18' long, 11'6" wheelbase. In other respects they seem to have been like the 1871 type - wooden underframe, grease axleboxes, initially no roof to the verandah, and probably wooden brake shoes, though some roofs fitted later, and later vans built from new with verandah roofs and probably with iron brake shoes.

 

About 220 were built, generally withdrawn over period 1890-1914, though one lasted until 1922, one found its way to the Kent and East Sussex Railway (via Shropshire and Montgomery?), one to London & India Dock Co, one to Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway.

 

The 1882 version switched to iron underframe - initially 9" bulb angle, later 9"x3" channel. Whereas the earlier versions appear to have retained grease axleboxes, most of these appear to have switched to oil around 1900.

 

Just under 400 were built, over the period 1882-7, and generally lasted until the 1920s and 1930s.

 

An unknown number were upgraded and given the diagram number AA16 around 1915-22, which involved switching to self-contained buffers and/or clasp brakes. These generally lasted until the 1930s, with one lasting to 1950.

 

Some were converted to tools vans for the Signals Department, 13 such examples are listed, typically converted in the 1920s and lasting until the 1930s, with the last one condemned in 1946.

 

Though not specifically mentioned in the text, photographs suggest that the AA16 and Engineers' versions had extra handrails, and the handrails changed from grey to white - not clear if these changes were specific to those versions or were general by the later date. I think Richard Brummitt suggested earlier that the handrails became white around WWI.

 

I was impressed by Missy's model of a toad (of the more modern variety) at St Albans recently - complete with hollow chimney. My earlier variant appears to have had a conical cap (presumably to keep out the rain?), so I'm not convinced that a hollow chimney would be justified for me.

 

Currently the main challenge is that I think my toads should be branded "Wellington", which seems rather a long name to squeeze into the space available - not that it's likely to be very legible at that size, specially in an italic script. Perhaps I could justify using "Crewe" or "Oxley" instead.

 

Unfortunately only one picture in this blog entry - the quality of the pictures in the copy of the article is poor, and their copyright status isn't clear. And there's not enough progress on my models to justify a new photo - but I included one anyway, mostly to show the initial stage of my next project, an S9 4-wheel third coach from Worsley Works on a David Eveleigh underframe.

 

blogentry-10888-0-70459700-1327661285_thumb.jpg

 

I blame Mikkel's recent blog post for inspiring me to tackle this one from my pile of outstanding kits. :)

 

But I don't think but his painting techniques are going to work on this particular model as the cream areas appear to be too small to "flood fill", so I'm trying the "start with cream upper works and add chocolate lines" approach, with limited success. There's a couple of brake thirds with much larger areas of cream which look promising for a trial sometime later...

 

 

David

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Some very interesting details on the early brake vans, David. Yes, the general concesnsus seems to be that hand rails were painted white from WW1 onwards, though whether it was a wartime innovation or was introduced just before or after the war is unclear to me.

 

On the coach, remember that the main colour of the beading was black, not brown. I find it difficult enough in 4mm, hence the attraction of Mikkel's flooding technique.

 

Nick

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On the coach, remember that the main colour of the beading was black, not brown. I find it difficult enough in 4mm, hence the attraction of Mikkel's flooding technique.Nick

Agreed - some close up photos which I took at Didot confirm that. However, when seen from a distance it's very difficult to distinguish from chocolate (see my Didcot 2011 gallery for examples), so I will experiment with both and see which looks best from normal viewing distance.

 

The problem with the third class coaches is small compartments -> narrow pillars, so very difficult to squeeze in the required five lines, consisting of:

venetian red (for which I am using red oxide at present),

black (or chocolate),

cream,

black,

venetian red.

The edges of the doors are slightly better, with one less line to include (omit one of the black ones). As you imply, all a bit challenging in 2mm - I should probably have tried one of the other coaches first (first and two brake thirds). :)

 

The ends will need black beading (on chocolate ends)- I think the flooding technique is worth trying there, as the panels are large (relatively speaking).

 

David

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David,

A very informative entry. I have a real soft spot for the outside framed brake vans (have 2 P4 ones, only one finished which can be seen in my Trefallion blog(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/834/entry-6895-trefallion-wagons-and-vans/)). The David Eveleigh kit is on my list of wants!

 

I have yet to try painting a 2mm coach, however one of my 4mm P4 ones can be seen in the above blog (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/834/entry-6953-trefallion-coaching-stock/)- I don't bother with the finer points of the lining, just use my Rotring pen with black ink to line the panels, and a mahogany colour for the window frames. I have tried to put a gold line just inside the chocolate panels (after the photos were taken), but don't like it, I made it far too thick so it will need to be removed (luckily I used a water based ink).

 

Ian

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Ian -

I've heard that the David Eveleigh toad kits are out of stock at present, but I assume he will be producing more in due course, as the popularity of early GWR modelling grows (plus their use as departmental stock on later GWR layouts).

 

Your coach looks good - but unfortunately the pillars on mine seem much more cramped, so more difficult to paint (as well as being half the size, 2mm against 4mm). Sounds like a Rotring pen should be on my shopping list to try your method for the black lining, rather than trying to paint it. I agree that a gold line round the lower panels would look good, but that trying to paint it would be impracticable. I think some 2mm modellers achieve this by scraping a thin line through to the underlying brass.

 

David

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Great looking toad. And lovely outside frames, they do add character to stock.

 

I can see how the flooding technique would be tricky there. In 4mm it works for slim panels like that (with a bit of practice), but in 2mm it would be really tricky.

 

Will be interested to see how you choose to do the livery. Mine is a real compromise, there isn't even any black beading because as you say it usually doesn´t show from "ordinary" viewing distance. Trouble is, "ordinary viewing distance" is changing: With the advent of sites like this and close-up photography, the bar has moved higher. I might want to try out the black beading on the next coach.

 

Many thanks for the hints on the Lewis articles, I'm off to read them.

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Some of my 0 gauge stock has simplified lining. The early livery had a thin brown line around the edge of the cream panels ( just a little way in from the beading) but it doesn't show in a lot of photos and if done too heavy looks all wrong.

The beading is really only two lines the venetian red is round the window bolections. The beading is black with a gold line down the middle. Look at it that way and it sounds easier. I like the models.

Don

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Thanks for the various comments about the prospective coach painting. It's useful to discuss the potential problems of my next blog post before I make it rather than after - perhaps I will get it mostly right :)

 

Using one of my Didcot Gallery images to illustrate the problem:

T49 01

 

On the model, the pillar between compartments is about 1 mm wide - this is the equivalent to the pillar below the number 416 in the image. Ideally it needs to have wide venetian red lines on each side, then narrow black lines, then a wide cream line - all within the limit of 1mm.

 

I will certainly be following Don's advice to ignore the thin brown lines around the edge of the cream panels - and I may follow his earlier advice to omit the vertical black lines, reducing the pattern to venetian red/cream/venetian red.

 

The situation around the doors is a little different. The pillar is about the same width, but there is one wider black line instead of two narrow ones, so I think it will be worth having the black line there (subject to my eyesight and painting/drawing skill, and patience).

 

I still think that I will need most of black lining on the upper part (above the windows) - but I reserve the right to change my mind after I have actually tried it.

 

Looks like I will be trying a few alternatives, stripping and trying again...

 

David

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The thumbnail of that image is about model size on my screen and you can make out the mahogany colour around the windows but none of the lining so I wouldn't bother. I've come around to the opinion that if it is too small to model to scale (or very close) then it should be left off to look right.

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