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Midland or were they LMS Fowler 4Fs?


Silver Sidelines

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Stocks of the latest Bachmann Midland 4Fs have appeared in the shops and I have taken delivery of one of the examples with a Late Crest. Well I have taken delivery of two engines but more of that later.

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Bachmann Midland 4F on unfitted freight

It is now over 100 years since Sir Henry Fowler introduced his 4F goods engine. 192 of these engines were built by the Midland Railway between 1911 and 1922 and according to Casserley and Asher (1961) all these engines were still in service up until May 1954.

The ‘Midland’ 4F continued to be constructed by the LMS Railway after grouping. Between 1924 and 1940 a further 580 engines were built giving a final total of 772 engines, the highest of any class in the UK. Casserley and Asher reported that withdrawals of the later engines constructed under LMS ownership did not commence until 1959.

The fact that such large numbers of relatively small 0-6-0 goods engines were still being employed in the 1950s has often been used as evidence to demonstrate the inefficient way that freight was handled by the UK rail network. You might also say that it shows that the 4Fs were simple to maintain and cheap to run.

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Ex LMS 4F 44605 passing Barrows Green Widnes in the early 60's

I admired the 4Fs and my picture from the early 1960s shows the penultimate member of the class gently sauntering along on a sleepy summer’s day. Those of you with an eye for detail will notice in the distance the wooden outside framing to the lead chambers used to make sulphuric acid (the lead chamber process for those of you who studied ‘O’ Level Chemistry!).

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Airfix ex LMS 4F

Airfix I think copied the LMS. When they introduced their model in the 1970s they seem to have manufactured copious numbers of their model. Certainly by the early 1980s there were lots for sale and I bought a couple. One came from C&G Models – trading from Newton Aycliffe, and another from Kings Cross Models – all at around £10.00 approximately half the manufacturer’s recommended price.

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Airfix LMS 4F renumbered 44605

As a tribute to the engine in my Widnes photograph I renumbered my first Airfix ex LMS 4F to represent the engine in the picture. Adding a smoke box number and shed plate I think makes a huge improvement – as does the addition of some black paint to the metal tyres on the driving wheels.

I thought the Airfix models to be good for their time and with their heavy tender drive and rubber traction tyres they had excellent haulage capacities. Why some motors were noisy and others extremely quiet was always a mystery – although I did have theories about the strength of the brush springs. Soft springs might equate to quiet motors?

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Hornby Tender Drive

I guess the 4F has always been a popular model and Hornby re–released the Airfix model with a revised tender drive and improved handrail detailing. Small changes that I thought made quite a presentable looking model. I had to change the bottom plate on my Hornby model which seemed over brittle and just disintegrated. It now says Airfix which might puzzle a future buyer!

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Bachmann Engine Driven ex MR 4F

I know very little about the design of the various prototypes. However comparing pictures of the ex MR and the ex LMS 4Fs does suggest that new Bachman model is a good representation. Obvious difference between the MR and LMS versions are the position of the reversing lever and what I think might be the top feed. On the MR version these are on the right hand side looking from the cab, whilst on the LMS version they have moved to the left hand side. Does that mean that the MR engines were RH drive the LMS ones LH drive? It also looks as though the LMS company indulged in a bit of value engineering because the fine beading on the MR version disappeared on the LMS version. Bachmann are to be commended for their rendering of this detail. In fact the Bachmann model as a whole seems much more finely detailed than the older models. A friend summed it up by saying – ‘neatly superior’.

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Bachmann 4F left, Hornby Tender Drive 4F right

The view above shows the old and new models head to head and highlights the heavier detail and thicker handrails used on the older models.

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Wiring harness made too long

I mentioned at the start of this post that I had taken delivery of two Bachmann models. The view above shows the first model. The wiring harness was over long and it was just not possible to get the engine and tender close enough to couple them together. The little ladies in China had obviously tried and the surplus wire had pushed sideways and bent one of the copper tender pickups.

A word of warning – I parcelled my engine back up and posted it straight back to the retailer. There were very good family reasons why I wanted it out of the way. Subsequently the retailer refused to refund my postage on the basis that he had sent out a prepaid postage slip and that I should have waited to use that before posting. Black marks to Rails of Sheffield they should have been quicker to acknowledge a problem and say that they would send the return postage label.

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The new Bacmann model is rather fine, see also this topic. I posted a few pictures of the innards on the last couple of pages.

 

 

 

...Obvious difference between the MR and LMS versions are the position of the reversing lever and what I think might be the top feed. On the MR version these are on the right hand side looking from the cab, whilst on the LMS version they have moved to the left hand side. Does that mean that the MR engines were RH drive the LMS ones LH drive?...

 

Not a top feed, these boilers were fed from the backhead. I think you're possibly referring to the ejector (the gubbins around the handrail just behind the smokebox).

 

The MR builds (LMS nos 3835-4026) and the Somerset & Dorset "Armstrongs" (4557-4561) were right hand drive. The LMS continued to build them like this until 1925/6 (nos 4027-4206 and 4302-4311), the rest (4207-4301, 4312-4556 and the much later 4562-4606) were left hand drive.

 

 

 

...It also looks as though the LMS company indulged in a bit of value engineering because the fine beading on the MR version disappeared on the LMS version...

 

Not that simple, both MR and LMS builds show variations in the cab-side beading, the earlier LMS ones having a similar style to the MR type, although the last fifteen Midland engines had less cabside beading and no splasher beading. All but the 1937-41 LMS builds had the splasher beading but most others had it removed eventually.

 

Then there's the differences in boiler fittings. MR domes and chimneys were taller and they had Ramsbottom safety vales, whereas the LMS fitted Ross pop valves. Most eventually had the shorter LMS dome and chimney and Ross valves.

 

Then there's the tenders...

 

As with many large classes, care is needed in renumbering these.

 

Nick

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Great blog as usual Ray.

Had the same problem with my Hornby 4Fand managed to glue the crumbled bottom plate back together. It runs fine. I've an Airfix one some where too, which is awaiting a Finecast nickel silver chassi and repaint.

The Bachmann one does look like the ducks nuts though!

 

Regards Shaun.  

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Hello Nick

 

The new Bacmann model is rather fine, ....

 

Yes I had spotted your comment - good work I have just been back to give it a 'tick'. 

 

It would be hard to imagine any products being made over thirty years all being turned out identical to each other.  It will almost always be necessary to compromise, unless perhaps you are modelling a particular part of the rail network on a particular day, and you have authenticated photographs to prove what things looked like back then.

 

When I unpacked my first engine and emailed RofS they said that the wiring harnesses come in all different lengths.  I had a trawl through the RMweb thread to see if anyone else had a similar problem and I didn't spot anything - so perhaps just a rogue engine.  The quartering was also rubbish so leave well alone and get a replacement.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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Hello Shaun

 

Thanks for the encouragement

 

.....

Had the same problem with my Hornby 4Fand managed to glue the crumbled bottom plate back together. ..

 

Yes - I bought my model 'unused' second hand and I had the distinct impression that the plastic for the bottom plate had been cooked - there was no way it had ever been used in that condition.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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When I unpacked my first engine and emailed RofS they said that the wiring harnesses come in all different lengths.  I had a trawl through the RMweb thread to see if anyone else had a similar problem and I didn't spot anything - so perhaps just a rogue engine.  The quartering was also rubbish so leave well alone and get a replacement.

Hi Ray,

 

The length of the wires was a bit long on my 3F, but the 4F was fine. They can be adjusted by removing the keeper plate and pushing them up behind the motor unit, but it's a bit fiddly without stripping everything down. Though with the quartering problems as well, it sounds like you got a Friday afternoon job (or it's Chinese equivalent), so sending back was a wise move. Is the replacement ok?

 

Nick

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Hello Nick

....Is the replacement ok?

Nick

Like you I would usually investigate further.  However just at the moment I have some pressing issues and could not afford the time to take anything apart.  The stiffness in the wheel set was definitive and the model was replaced.  The new one is quiet and smooth - just like my 3F.

 

Speak again

 

Regards

 

Ray

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Ray as ever a brilliant blog, and the photo of the 4F running tender first in my home town is very inspirational and perfect timing as I have a 4F waiting back dating into LMS livery for my layout, so I may number it as the Widnes loco.

 

Brilliant thanks. :)

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Hello Paul

..and the photo of the 4F running tender first in my home town is very inspirational and perfect timing as I have a 4F waiting back dating into LMS livery for my layout, so I may number it as the Widnes loco...

Excellent - glad you liked it.  It thought you might have seen the picture on Flickr.  It was taken up Barrows Green Lane from my Grandparent's house in Derby Road.  I will attempt to add an image of the site as it is today, over fifty years later.  Where did all those houses come from?

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Tell me about it I went to Liverpool the other week from Widnes station, and I could not believe that the fields I remember are now just advancing housing estates,

 

On my way to work the other day I was surprised to find the odd hidden relic of the railways that crossed the town in the long distant days.

 

I may wander up Derby round over the weekend to have a look and visit the great chip shop too

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Thanks Paul

Tell me about it..

We didn't visit chip shops in those days - in fact where is the chip shop?  When I used to visit Derby Road there was still a dangerous 'S' bend with lots of accidents.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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Hi Paul

The chip shop is amongst the shops part way down the road as you head towards the cemetery,

Thanks, but have to say totally lost!   I have just taken the Google man up and down Barrows Green Lane - cannot find a Cemetery (or a chip shop). Have to say that it has changed so much since lets say 1960.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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Good site and good stuff on the Bach 4f. How do you find it performance wise? I have a couple of old Airfix 4fs on Comet frames but I couldn't get enough ballast in them to pull much. In fact anything over 33 wagons and there was more wheel spin than a 1965 mini cooper!

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Hello Ronnie,  33 wagons is quite impressive  I just use my 4F for pick up goods - ten wagons perhaps.  I will swap it around and let you know how it gets on with something more.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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Hello Ronnie again

.. How do you find it performance wise? ...anything over 33 wagons and there was more wheel spin than a 1965 mini cooper!

I can report that on the flat the Bachmann 4F could handle 34 wagons (Bachmann types).  There was a little bit of wheel spin to start but not a problem.  I think I could have added even more wagons.  On my up and down layout and in particular the 1 in 56 curve on the reversing loop, 17 wagons was really too much for the six coupled and there was a lot of wheel spin.  Quite a contrast to the eight coupled Bachmann types such as the G2A which can keep 17 wagons moving quite sedately both up and down dale - so to speak.

 

I like your old pictures - we should have taken more if only we had thought.

 

Speak again

 

Ray

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Like/Informative/helpful. (why can't we vote on Blogs?) Sir -  your reviews and advice are first class!

On reviews some magazines have Hornby etc advertising so punches have to be pulled.

 

Re the photos - it was limited pocket money - do I buy a film or a Airfix Cement wagon. A Railway Modeller or a Trains Illustrated. I saved up 2 weeks to afford developing/printing.

 

Ahh nostalgia isn't what it was. Happy days but I would't want to go back.

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Hi Ronnie

 

I will speak again later - but yes I do believe that you can vote on Blogs just at the end of the initial Post.

....why can't we vote on Blogs?)...

Yes Airfix kits were 2/- and Trains Illustrated 2/6.  I cannot remember too much about films and developing but it must have been 'expensive' otherwise I would have taken more pictures!

 

Speak again

 

Ray

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Hi Ray,

 

I like your comparison- great! One thing, the Airfix one has larger splashers and the firebox is shortened in length to keep the splasher/firebox relationship looking right.

 

Compared to prototype the Bachmann one still has slightly oversize splashers but Brassmasters are to do some replacements.

 

Cheers Tony

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Thanks Tony

,.. the Airfix one has larger splashers and the firebox is shortened in length to keep the splasher/firebox relationship looking right.

 

......... the Bachmann one still has slightly oversize splashers but Brassmasters are to do some replacements.

 

I guess if you have oversize flanges then either the plastic moulding for the splasher cannot be made thin enough or as you say replace the thick plastic with thinner metal.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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