Sixties Snapshots - 00 scale

I recently did the same took spare wheels from an airfix chassis and put them onto a Dapol one. Running over insulfrog points now transformed. Doesn't run completey smooth, now a bit of waddle when running forward but overall a great improvement. As no gradients on my little layotu it still pulls a decent length train, the autocoach five wagons or so and brake van. Don't know why I didn't try this ages ago.

Thanks, yes nearly very good but not so smooth forwards. I have spent too much time this week trying different axles and re-quartering the wheels. I feel that I am missing something. On my model there seems to be far too much slop in the drive axle and I am wondering whether there is more clearance provided in the metal chassis to allow for the extra diameter of the rubber tyre. I am still thinking about a possible solution!

 

Regards Ray

I've had a couple of these and found them to be frustrating runners; better bunker-first running seems to be a trait in these models, as I also discovered. Someone suggested it's to do with the way the rear wheels are sprung and offered a fix. If I could only remember where I read it!

 

This is such a popular model for smaller layouts, especially the ubiquitous GWR BLT, that I reckon it's long past time for Hornby to seriously think about tooling-up for a new example. A decent autocoach wouldn't go amiss either-the old Airfix one is looking very tired these days.

Andy thanks, yes I am coming round to thinking that the 'springing' has a lot to do with it. Time permitting I sense more experimenting.

Andy - Addendum - a comparison of a 'good' Hornby chassis and my bouncy chassis showed that the coil spring over the rear axle was shorter on the bouncy chassis. I have stretched the shorter spring with good results. Ray

I have tried many ways to get a 14XX to run nicely on my sharply curved (3rd radius 19 inch) and steep 1 in 24 branch line with limited success.

 

The principal problem is the traction tyres and the loco will ride on the traction tyres without makking electrical contact, forcing smaller than standard tyres over the wheels helps but the front wheels still lift when poweris applied and causes derailments and uncoupling with my Peco couplings.

I must have had eight or nine 14XX of which 3 survive as runners.

 

My latest mod to Hornby/Dapol chassis is a vertical hole tapped 10 BA above the unpowered trailing axle with a brass 10 ba bolt with its head downwards adjusted so the slot is in line with the axle and adjusted so the loco can only push down 1mm at the back on level track. The spring remains in place and simply fits around the bolt. This is promising but the trailing axle needs more downward movement to cope with humps in the track,I have done 1 Hornby and 1 Dapol so far. Getting the pickups back in place is a nightmare on this Daapol / Hornby chassis

 

I'm still planning a double chassis version where the front and centre axle are in a floating subframe within the mainframe holding front and rear axles but it's at the pipe dream stage.

 

The Airfix chassis has a beautiful and ridiculously powerful and heavy motor over the back unpowered axle, with drive to the front axle through a worm and wheel and a universal joint and driveshaft, Dapol and Hornby a cheap and asty motor driving the centre axle through a worm and two stage reduction gear, the bodies interchange although there is no rear fixing for the Airfix body on the other chassis. Sometimes you will find the Airfix chassis has snapped through the leading axle hole, this causes the plastic worm wheel to strip, not a problem as there is a romford gear, probably the 50 to 1 which is a straight swap but the cracked chassis cannot be repaired.

 

The Hornby has blackened wheels and is better finished than the Dapol.

 

Hornby and Dapol have 6 plastic backed copper pickups, the Airfix has 6 beautiful little sprung plungers that simply die if you get a short though them as happens all the time on my live frog layout.

 

They all have traction tyres on the middle axle

 

My modifications have been

 

1) Mod 1 Airfix, throw away traction tyres,

2) Mod 2 Airfix, Fit spare non grooved wheels

3) Mod 3 Airfix fit Romfords, using Triang Crank pins (The worm wheel fits straaight on the axle and the Triang crank pins fit rods and wheels.

 

All these fail as the loco is tail heavy and will barely climb the bank let alone pull a train.

 

Mod 4 as Mod 3 but fit a lighter motor from a CD Rom Drive, this worked very sweetly and I cut away the back of the chassis to lighten the cab end and fit outside bearings and a split axle pickup through the bearings to the trailing wheels next.

 

Mod 5) Airfix Romford worm wheel slimmed and soldered to the axle and washers each side of worm wheel to allow only minimal sideplay in chasis, this works well and stops the engine crabbing along, Dapol Hornby don't have this problem.

 

Mod 6) Dapol, bend the coupling rods so they are the same length as the distance beetween the axles, not rocket science but mine were way too long!

 

Mod 7) Non Traction tyre wheels, better than the Airfix but still pretty dire as regards pulling.

 

Otherwise the model is quite good except it has a poor cab roof, the cab sides and roof edges are one sheet in the real thing, whereas the model cab overhangs the side, and the smokebox door is awful, I'm tempted to fit a Hornby Hall smokebox door, I'm pretty sure they were the same on the protototype otherwise it is quite nice, although the Airfix is in my opinion a far better BR Green than the Hornby nearly Khaki colour.

 

So the situalion is running 3, scrap box 4, workbench 1.

 

Has anyone thought of powering the trailing axle as well?

 

 

David, I thank you for your thoughts. You have been busy. You are right about the springing over the un-powered trailing axle. I think differences in spring travel / resistance accounts for differences in running quality between supposedly similar models.

 

Since writing the Blog entry I made a video of my Hornby 14xx with all smooth wheels (now fitted with a GWR body). The video makes it look better than it was.

 

 

I can follow a lot of your ideas. However I think you are very hard on yourself, 19 inch curves and 1 in 24 gradients. My minimum gradient is 1 in 58 and for running lines I stick to 35 inch radius / Peco medium radius points.

 

Regard Ray

I have been catching up on your very informative blogs in my spare moments and just read this one.
Of my two 14xxs (one Dapol, one Hornby) both are OK runners. I too seem to remember stretching one of the rear axle springs, which I don't recall.
On inspection all rubber bands are absent! Wonders never cease.
Way back the eager young sales man at Kemp Models of Hove, home of Perseverance at the time sold me a chassis kit and Airfix body. Alas my soldering skills at age 20 were naff to say the least.
I might just fit the front Dapol axle to the middle of the Hornby chassis and swap bodies when changing periods. I'll try

Hello Shaun

 

The 14xx has a long pedigree.  I don't know how the weight distribution worked on the prototype but the model combination of rubber tyres on one set of drivers with a relatively soft spring on the rear carryng axle does make a for a very bouncy ride!  My model without rubber tyres would run through points and crossovers brilliantly - without stalling.  However it still bounced along - maybe I should have locked up the rear carrying spring?

 

If you need spare tyres for any of the models, Airfix, Dapol, of Hornby, they are available from Hornby stockists such as www.modeltrains4U.com, part number X8063 (in packs of four).

 

Regards

 

Ray

I, also, have an Airfix 14xx and have bought a "Mainly Trains" upgrade kit for the body (this was originally going to be used on my K's kit - see separate blog).

 

However, whilst still honing my soldering skills, I decided to upgrade the Airfix model. Problem is, as you all know, the motor completely fills the cab, which I would really like to detail with backhead, brake and crew, etc.

 

So, considering the chassis: I wonder if anyone has tried replacing the Airfix motor with a smaller "can" variety, still driving the front (or middle) axle, without obtruding into the cab?

 

It would need a good hacking about of the cast tank and boiler weights and a suitable "mod" to hold the new motor, plus replacing the weights when I know how much room I have!

 

Any ideas or suggestions gratefully received.

 

Jim

Hello Jim

 

Sounds like a challenge!  I guess Dapol must have considered various options before deciding on their smaller motor driving on the rear driving wheel.  Certainly Hornby haven't thought it necessary to seek alternatives.  At least with the new Dapol / Hornby chassis  you can model the top half of the back plate and have the body tops of the crew showing.  Looking at the old Airfix chassis, I have the remains in front of me, you would have to move the motor much further forward and have it positioned over the rear driving wheels, but driving on the front wheels.  The downside might be that the worm could well be visible beneath the boiler?  Well there is nothing stopping you now - is there?

 

Regards

 

Ray