Agenoria Models

[Simond]

would it be unfair to summarise?

• over-inflated idea of the value of the company, stock, and demo models (and who would invest £20k in "research" in such a business - that's more-or-less half a year's salary for many well-qualified engineers in mainstream business)
• statement that the range makes next to no sales
• poor customer service (I experienced this personally too - I only rang up to buy a kit, with credit card ready - but I was readily put off by the attitude & never rang back)
• latest kits are "unrespected" and no effort made to get involved, address the issues and thereby impress a group of modellers who are probably prime target customers.

valuation anyone?

 

I'd weigh stock, and the demo models, the Manchester scrap brass price is £2/kg (rather less for whitemetal) - I'd guess a bit over might cover the artwork, moulds and goodwill?

 

or is that too harsh? - It would perhaps give a counterpoint to the £50k figure.  Somewhere between the two would probably be the right price.

 

and it would be better than Pete Stamper's work going in the bin.

 

regretfully

Simon

[Horsetan]

....I look forward to an ACE 4mm version, because the Q kits loco is a shocker....

Be careful what you wish for...

[Ruston]

Reviiving a topic from the dead...

 

I read this from Agenoria, today, on Facebook. It's from the 1st of January this year:

 

I have now stopped the 0 gauge sales, and will only be doing a few general shows this year, and a couple of Gauge 1 and Gauge 3 shows.
That doesn't mean you cannot still get my 0 gauge kits. I will just not be keeping anything in stock, and will not be spending half the day on sorting and packing 1 kit, leaving me no time to do anything else. I will be saving them up in batches. So if you order something, don't expect to get it the following day. It an't going to happen.

 

 

So they haven't been sold off and are all still available; but only when he can be  bothered.

[Horsetan]

....So they haven't been sold off and are all still available; but only when he can be  bothered.

 

...which could be never?

[Ressaldar]

Mike Williams (Agenoria) was at the Merseyside Hobbies show in Wallasey on Saturday.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[Ruston]

...which could be never?

He was never what you'd call quick even when O gauge was the main product so who knows how long between placing an order and receiving it now?

[Nicktoix]

Having spent the best part of 40 years running my own business I know :-

 

1 You must provide a service/product that the customer wants.

 

2 It must be to a high standard/accurate and at a reasonable price.

 

3 There must be a high standard of customer service and they should be treated with respect.

 

4 The customer's time is no less valuable than mine.

 

IMHO this business appears to fail on all these counts.

 

Nick

[sej]

I contacted Mike the other day, via his Facebook page, about some 7mm boiler fittings I needed. He replied quickly and helpfully; so if there's anything you might want, try getting in touch with him that way.

[rope runner]

If anyone fancies some of the ex-display models from their 0 gauge sales they are available directly at York this weekend....at £500+ each!

 

Paul A. 

[Kenton]

 

If anyone fancies some of the ex-display models from their 0 gauge sales they are available directly at York this weekend....at £500+ each!

 

Paul A. 

 

 

unpainted (or just varnished) and without motor and gearbox fitted (usual state of display models)? But people forget it costs someone to build them.

[2ManySpams]

Just stumbled on this thread and have read the comments with great interest.

 

It's my Agenoria 1366 thread that is often reference when discussion turns to issues with the new (post Pete Stamper) kits.

 

Yes, I agree that the loss of the original Pete Stamper kits is very sad but I have to say I have little sympathy with the lack of sales reported by Mr Williams.

 

Putting it bluntly the 1366 was a very poor kit and, by the time it will be finished, much of the finished model will consist of either new or reworked parts. The initial outlay including wheels and what turned out to be crud motor and gearbox was £330. Replacing just about every misshapen and inappropriate casting has added a chunk to this. Wondering why half the etched parts didn't fit was priceless.

 

This was definitely not what I expected after being told it was an easy build for a first-timer. Yes I made some rookie mistakes, but the biggest was not checking the dimensions of key etched parts and stupidly assuming they would be correct on a new modern kit. Muppet.

 

The proprietor had absolutely no interest whatsoever in talking any issues through at a show where there was nobody else needing attention on the stand.

 

From talking to others at 7mm shows their experiences of the new kits were similar.

 

The whole experience nearly made me abandon 7mm kit building but I bought a Connoisseur LSWR O2 kit from Jim. Absolute chalk and cheese. Great service, lively interaction, honest opinions and advice, etched parts fitted well, castings were appropriate and crisp, and the instructions were great. I have subsequently bought other kits from Jim.

 

IMO this just survival of the fittest. News of poor service and bad products spreads very easily these days and IMO appropriately affect sales. Being blunt it's time to either shape up or shut down.

[2ManySpams]

Yes, thankfully the 7mm Finney kits are under new ownership. The Finney7 mob show exactly what a group of interested and skilled owners can do when taking over an existing range.

 

I understand that the Finney kits as was were good, but challenging. The new owners seem to have taken much professional pride in revamping and improving the buildability of the kits and quality of the parts and instructions. Also, having met and talked to a number of them, they seem like great guys - very willing to give advice and honest opinions. A T9 will be coming from that stable.

[Ruston]

Such a shame that Finney and others don't do industrial locomotives though. The Impetus range of 4 an 7mm kits has famously been lost, never to be seen again, and I don't think we will ever see the Agenoria 7mm kits again either.

 

Last year, a friend of mine made a serious offer to Mike Williams for the original Peter Stamper stuff but Mike Willams insisted it was all or nothing, so he walked away as he didn't want the Williams-designed kits and considered the price, with those included, was way too high.

 

Considering my own experience with the Mike Williams-designed Hunslet 0-4-0T (AM50) I think he was right. The kit as it comes is unbuildable and I gave up and passed it to someone who had already built one after identitying and rectifying 25 seperate faults, some of which were fairly major and one of which would have even prevented the thing from running.

[kirtleypete]

In some respects the RTR industrial loco's are filling the gap and reducing the number of people wanting the kits.

 

Peter. 

[ian@stenochs]

I have an original Pete Stamper kit for the Markham 0-4-0 in 7mm, untouched,surplus to requirements if anyone is interested!

 

Ian.

[decauville1126]

Does anyone have any experience and/or comments on the 7mm Aveling Porter kit?

 

Thinking of getting one but would appreciate any thoughts.

 

Thanks.

[2ManySpams]

Does anyone have any experience and/or comments on the 7mm Aveling Porter kit?

 

Thinking of getting one but would appreciate any thoughts.

 

Thanks.

What's the kit number? If it's 41 or less the general thoughts in the thread above are that you should be OK.

[decauville1126]

What's the kit number? If it's 41 or less the general thoughts in the thread above are that you should be OK.

No idea of kit number, sorry. but it's relatively new(ish).

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Agenoria-Models-639414449498262/posts/

 

Info starts around March 2017 and then newer. Look really nice to me, but just wonder if anyone has yet bought one and what their thoughts were. I originally found a reference back in an old Gauge O Guild Gazette, and had a quick reply this morning from Mike Williams with a price.

[2ManySpams]

Looking at the facebook photo, the kit ref is AM66 which means it's one of Mike's designs rather than a Pete Stamper kit.

 

My own experience with a Mike designed kit was that the castings were really only fit for the bin and the etches didn't fit together particularly well. Not a kit for a novice and not one that 'fell together'. Others have had similar issues with the Mike designed kits. If it was my money I wouldn't buy it - once bitten, twice shy.

 

You have to make your own decision though based on how confident and experienced you are as a kit builder. If you do get it, good luck but be prepared to be remaking and modifying parts to fit. The Facebook post also says there are parts missing. Hopefully forewarned is forearmed and you can go into the purchase and build with your eyes open. If you do decide to get it please let us know how you get on.

[decauville1126]

Looking at the facebook photo, the kit ref is AM66 which means it's one of Mike's designs rather than a Pete Stamper kit.

 

My own experience with a Mike designed kit was that the castings were really only fit for the bin and the etches didn't fit together particularly well. Not a kit for a novice and not one that 'fell together'. Others have had similar issues with the Mike designed kits. If it was my money I wouldn't buy it - once bitten, twice shy.

 

You have to make your own decision though based on how confident and experienced you are as a kit builder. If you do get it, good luck but be prepared to be remaking and modifying parts to fit. The Facebook post also says there are parts missing. Hopefully forewarned is forearmed and you can go into the purchase and build with your eyes open. If you do decide to get it please let us know how you get on.

 

Thanks for the thoughts, and I appreciate your candidness. I guessed on here would be the best place to seek guidance.

 

The urge will be put aside for a month or so and then I'll see how I feel. £300+ is a bit high on the risk side for me. It only came about following a flick through the August 2014 Gauge O Guild Gazette picked up over lunch at the railway where I am a volunteer, followed by a bit of internet detection to come up with the chap's contact. To be fair he did respond to my enquiry very quickly and in a positive way.

 

Had a similar scenario a few years back though with the build for an Oakville 7mm 14xx GWR tank for a repeat customer - ended up about 2/3 scratchbuilt. He asked me 'what is this big bag of bits for?' I told him it was the stuff I couldn't use / didn't fit / too poor quality / wrong, and had replaced. Vowed never to quote for building an Oakville kit again, as Jidenco, as .....

 

I'll keep looking in case I come across someone building one and see what their thoughts are. It's a very pretty and different prototype which has a definite appeal for me.

[Guest Isambarduk]

The urge will be put aside for a month or so and then I'll see how I feel. £300+ is a bit high on the risk side for me.

 

Surely, it's not just the risk of the cost it's also the risk of much wasted time and the risk of high levels of frustration and dissatisfaction.  I treat all kits as an aid to scratch-building, even good kits, but you may be sure that some kits are more of an aid to your endeavours than others, whilst some are of no aid at all - quite the contrary.  Please weigh all this up before you part with your £300; satisfaction and pleasure may come from building something other than an Aveling & Porter, nice though that does sound.   David

Edited September 9, 2017 by Isambarduk

[brack]

Easier to start from scratch knowing you're making everything to sizes that match drawings and fit together than buy a kit to get bits that don't. Doesn't mean you've got to give up on the prototype you're after just because the kit isn't up to your standards