Porcy Mane Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Horse, No, I haven't encountered Dave Bradwell's J27 kit but I have encountered Dave Bradwell's B1 chassis kit and, now that you remind me, that probably holds the record, for me, for complexity. However, I do think that anyone's perception of complexity is largely incrementally influenced by what they have done already, so having now pretty well done this J72 chassis, I would, perhaps, look differently at Dave Bradwell's kits. Mind you even from this new perspective, they'll still look bl--dy difficult but achieveable. Anyway, I sat the J72 body on the part completed chassis and checked the ride height against the test build of Arthur Kimber's J71. Mistake; massive mistake. The J72 model simply isn't in the same parish as that J71, even with the much more detailed chassis. So the plastic footsteps on the J72 have come off and will be replaced by some scratch built ones. How right you are about those steps. With a little bit of modification the Mainly Trains step etch provides a good basis for the J72 with a little bit less work. I never thought about scratch building mine. I suppose it might have been cheaper. I started my short bunkered J72 well before Mr Gibbons started on the design work for his but he kindly donated a test Etch (from his scrap bin) so I could use his later brake rodding on mine. I'm modelling 68674 and pics show that it was fitted with the later style brake gear at some point. The copperclad is to have the electrical tracks for working Head/tail-lamp, firehole led and bunker mounted speaker etched into it so I can fit a cab floor and backhead without wiring interfering too much. Have a go at the Bradwell B1. My mate built this one a few years ago now, but said, with a little bit of patience when following the instructions, it fell together. It might even get painted this year. Hope you don't mind the excuse to post up some photos. Porcy Edited July 22, 2015 by Porcy Mane 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Hope you don't mind the excuse to post up some photos. Porcy You're very welcome to post any photographs; as anyone is on these threads. Now I must ask you this. When I was a youthful train spotter, now more than fifty years ago, I can remember a 1962 trip to the Newcastle sheds, one of which was Percy Main. Its allocation, then, and I believe for many years, consisted entirely of J27's. Anyway I'm assuming (possibly wrongly) that your username is the Geordie pronunciation of that place? And yes, I do have two Dave Bradwell chassis kits for the B1 still to do. They've languished in the 'to do' cupboard for quite a while now but, perhaps, might now get onto the work bench. Many thanks and cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Anyway I'm assuming (possibly wrongly) that your username is the Geordie pronunciation of that place? Might be. I once asked Joan Croft to marry me and wanted Neville Hill to be my best man, but she turned me down. Porce PS BR Management tried to turn me into a centralised maintenance depot for Tynesides diesel shunters but rationalisation put pay to that. See my diesel refuelling points. Oh the shame... As seen in this Arthur Ives photo. 179. 15F Percy Main MPD 12-04-64 (A Ives) 090 by George Stephenson, on Flickr 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Might be. I once asked Joan Croft to marry me and wanted Neville Hill to be my best man, but she turned me down. Porce PS BR Management tried to turn me into a centralised maintenance depot for Tynesides diesel shunters but rationalisation put pay to that. See my diesel refuelling points. Oh the shame... As seen in this Arthur Ives photo. Porce, Porce, Could have been worse, you might have asked Joan Croft's sister - Patri - to marry you and Neville Hill's brother - Edge - to have been your best man. You'd have been in an 'L of a MesS' then!! What a great photo of 'Porcy Mane' though sadly lacking any North Eastern locos. Now that would make a cracking model - Grommit!! With this growing collection of North Eastern locos I'm going to have to build a model of a North Eastern shed and that's just about the right size and shape. Cheers MIke Edited July 22, 2015 by mikemeg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) What a great photo of 'Porcy Mane' though sadly lacking any North Eastern locos. Now that would make a cracking model - Grommit!! With this growing collection of North Eastern locos I'm going to have to build a model of a North Eastern shed and that's just about the right size and shape. Well here's the rest of it on the same day. V1/3 tanks or 101 DMU's passing on the main carrying all the Scandinavians to Tyne Commission Quay. NCB hoppers on the way to Howdon Point tippler and all the docks traffic. It's located tightly between two over bridges for scenic breaks. Perfect... 180. 15E 65860 Percy Main MPD 12-04-64 (A Ives) 089 by George Stephenson, on Flickr You can get a feel for the Loco sheds location and surroundings by checking towards the top centre of this pic: Hartley Main Collieries (Commissioners) staithes at Percy Main in 1932 by Billy Embleton, on Flickr You can see film of the Howdon Quay Whitehill point coal tippler in action by skipping to seven minutes in this film. Introduced and narrated by one of my heroes, Mike Neville. http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-your-heritage-the-river-tyne-1962/ P P Edited July 23, 2015 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Well here's the rest of it on the same day. V1/3 tanks or 101 DMU's passing on the main carrying all the Scandinavians to Tyne Commission Quay. NCB hoppers on the way to Howdon Point tippler and all the docks traffic. It's located tightly between two over bridges for scenic breaks. Perfect... 180. 15E 65860 Percy Main MPD 12-04-64 (A Ives) 089 by George Stephenson, on Flickr You can get a feel for the Loco sheds location and surroundings by checking towards the top centre of this pic: Hartley Main Collieries (Commissioners) staithes at Percy Main in 1932 by Billy Embleton, on Flickr You can see film of the Howdon Quay coal tippler in action by skipping to seven minutes in this film. Introduced and narrated by one of my heroes, Mike Neville. http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-your-heritage-the-river-tyne-1962/ P P Porce, Once again, many thanks for the photos and the link. I watched the video and it was fascinating; reflecting, as it did, a Tyneside scene and history now long consigned to the past. But what an industrial powerhouse was Tyneside, with its coal industry and the variety of other heavy industries, not least building the great ships. And the commentary, just verging on but never emulating, that clipped, exagerated English of the pre and post war Pathe News, is perfect. A real joy to watch. The photo of the old through road shed and the panoramic of the area show just how much railway there once was on Tyneside and what a place it must have been, in its halcyon days. And Percy Main shed must have been built to support a much larger allocation than it actually had, with a three road through shed and five road straight shed. As you say, its layout and setting are perfect to be modelled. And just look at some of that trackwork - curves seemingly formed of tangential short straights, turnouts on the curve, etc. And that air of slow and gradual delapidation which overtook so many of these amazing places, in the 1950's and 60's. You can almost smell the smoke and soot on the air, and hear the hissing of steam and the knocking of cooling, contracting metal and the lines of resting locomotives as the place slumbers on a lazy Sunday afternoon. Ah happy days!!!! So the construction of a model of this shed and its environs will now be added to the list of 'things to be done' and it will be done and integrated with my Hessle Haven layout. Just keep those wonderful photos coming! Cheers Mike Edited July 23, 2015 by mikemeg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) And Percy Main shed must have been built to support a much larger allocation than it actually had, with a three road through shed and five road straight shed. Flickr is certainly turning into a reasonable tool for pictorial research. Lets hope it doesn't go the same way as Fotopic. The shed was originally the Loco/Wagon works for the Blyth & Tyne Rly. A little more info in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/page-9&do=findComment&comment=1766812 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/page-9&do=findComment&comment=1768209 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/page-9&do=findComment&comment=1769427 A similar view to the aerial above but taken some 35 years later. Unfortunately the loco shed is just out of view. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69358-tyneside-electrics/page-10&do=findComment&comment=995372 P Edited July 23, 2015 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Flickr is certainly turning into a reasonable tool for pictorial research. Lets hope it doesn't go the same way as Fotopic. The shed was originally the Loco/Wagon works for the Blyth & Tyne Rly. A little more info in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/page-9&do=findComment&comment=1766812 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/page-9&do=findComment&comment=1768209 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/page-9&do=findComment&comment=1769427 A similar view to the aerial above but taken some 35 years later. Unfortunately the loco shed is just out of view. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69358-tyneside-electrics/page-10&do=findComment&comment=995372 P Porce, So these buildings, originally built by/for the Blyth and Tyne Railway? Did these buildings become part of the running shed or did they always retain a different use, right up to closure of the shed. I'm really asking about the early 1950's timeframe. Most of the 1950's and 60's photos of this shed seem to show the allocation concentrated in the three road through shed, which with 22 in 1950 and 18 in 1959 (all J27's) wouldn't be too much of an accommodation problem, though the through shed seemed to lose its roof some time in the 1950's? Cheers Mike Edited July 23, 2015 by mikemeg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted July 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Percy Main did play host to a couple of Q6s just before closure. One is behind 65821. The J27s from Percy Main had turns which took them along the Tyne valley to collieries on the Alston branch. ArthurK Edited July 23, 2015 by ArthurK 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) So these buildings, originally built by/for the Blyth and Tyne Railway? Did these buildings become part of the running shed or did they always retain a different use, right up to closure of the shed. I'm really asking about the early 1950's timeframe. Most of the 1950's and 60's photos of this shed seem to show the allocation concentrated in the three road through shed, which with 22 in 1950 and 18 in 1959 (all J27's) wouldn't be too much of an accommodation problem, though the through shed seemed to lose its roof some time in the 1950's? Mike apologies for not replying earlier. I've been busy over the last few days. Yes, what became Percy Main shed was originally the workshops for the Blyth and Tyne. They built a couple of locos for themselves. My understanding is that the area bordered red was the original Blyth & Tyne works boundary with the railway also owning the land that the housing was built on immediately to the East and North East. The building shown as the poplars on the map became railway housing with the rest of the area shaded yellow becoming railway allotments some time during LNER days. This info came from a mates father who lived nearby but he had no railway connections and I haven't been able to confirm the gen. Eventually the Poplars became the Clubhouse for Percy Main F.C. They had (still have) the nick name "The Railwaymen". Seems like the aerial photo linked to earlier was a post card from an Aerofilms original. There is a series of them from the same flight on this page: http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/asearch?gazetteer=North%20Tyneside&ADMIN_AREA=North%20Tyneside If you register with Britain From Above you can use the zoom function which is quite useful. They've got a decent pic of the gas works at Hessle. I've seen a series of colour images take from the top of the signal gantry that was just south of the shed looking over the site after the west shed roof was removed but can't remember which publication it was in. I've never managed to find an exact date for the roof removal but suspect it was the sometime during the fifties. It might have blown off as in the photos the most easterly of the three tracks in the west shed (if you see what I mean) had been covered with a roof and side wall of corrugated iron which was intact at closure. There is this pic that shows the full roof still intact. 83. 2924 65852 Percy Main MPD (KH Cockerill) 906 by George Stephenson, on Flickr Roofs gone on this image but the end walls are still there. 49. 65780 Percy Main 52E 30 09 56 004 by George Stephenson, on Flickr Next time I see Mr Dunn I'll ask him if the dates are with any notes for the original negatives. Finally a similar shed. A not often seen (but this has been posted a few times on RM web) view of the inside of Blackgill. All the work of Eddy Ford. P Edited July 29, 2015 by Porcy Mane 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I like the photos of the J27's from what I have been looking through recently the J27/J26 differences are very small,,, interestingly most of the photos above show the 2 coal rail tenders with the D cut outs to the tender chassis frames. Which knowing a little about the class is interesting as there were so many variations. from the photos it is very difficult to tell the short vs long fire boxes, Picking the difference in the smoke box door is quite easy. Fantastic photos and makes me want to get on with the kit again.... work taking all my decent modelling time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Porcy, Many thanks for the diagram and photos of Percy Main shed. The more I see of this shed the more it looks like an ideal place to model. With seventeen ex NER locos and six or seven LNER locos, then I need a fairly substantial shed to house them and I'm sure there will be more!! Please keep the photos coming; they are truly inspirational. Finally, I did get around to the second J72, stripping it and then largely rebuildng it. If only I could thin that footplate down some, then it would look the part. This is just resting on the chassis built for 69003; this one will have another chassis built for it and will be one of the LNER built batch - 687xx. Remember I mentioned a 1962 Newcastle shed bash; one of our party had an Aunt who lived in a terraced house overlooking the shed, where we were all treated to a cup of tea and a cake, prior to going round the shed. Seeing that map/diagram rekindled the memory and shows she must have lived on Railway Street. Oh and the photo of the inside of Blackgill shed - amazing, simply amazing. Though when I remember these wonderful places they were never that clean. Once again, many thanks for the contributions and for expanding the interest of the thread. Regards Mike Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raised On Steam Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think the poplars clubhouse might be the only remaining trace of Percy Main shed. Could this be it: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/?p=1766812 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think the poplars clubhouse might be the only remaining trace of Percy Main shed. Could this be it: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86750-evocotive-railway-remains-what-derelect-or-abandoned-structure-stirs-your-emotions/?p=1766812 That and subsequent discussion linked to in my earlier post. #32. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101015-building-the-high-level-models-j72-chassis/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1962541 P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT The second of these High Level Models J72 chassis is now well on and should be completed this week. After that then cab interiors will be built for the two J72's plus adding the footplate steps and some new tank fillers. I guess one of the upsides of doing these test builds of Arthur's kits - well there isn't a downside - is that I've accumulated quite a collection of NER loco bits - bolted buffer beams, tank handrail fixing brackets, two part smokebox top lamp irons, bunker lamp irons, backhead details, etc, some of which have gone onto the J72's. So a quick line up of the 'little J's'; two J72's and a J71. Cheers Mike Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Looking good Mike. A question if I may, did you make the cosmetic springs on the frames detachable so the wheels could be dropped out? I know Chris has been thinking about this and Bill Bedford has done it with his frames as can be seen with this view of my J72 The springs could be fattened up a bit but they create the illusion and can be dropped out by removing the 14BA screws that hold them in place. BTW does Chris make the motion etch available as a separate item? That portion of my engine is looking rather naked by comparison to yours Cheers, David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 .....BTW does Chris make the motion etch available as a separate item? ... Probably not if it's designed as part of the main etch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Looking good Mike. A question if I may, did you make the cosmetic springs on the frames detachable so the wheels could be dropped out? I know Chris has been thinking about this and Bill Bedford has done it with his frames as can be seen with this view of my J72 The springs could be fattened up a bit but they create the illusion and can be dropped out by removing the 14BA screws that hold them in place. BTW does Chris make the motion etch available as a separate item? That portion of my engine is looking rather naked by comparison to yours Cheers, David David, No, I didn't make the springs detachable, though that could probably be done. I know many modellers do like to make the springs detachable so that driving wheelsets can be simply dropped out but, as yet, I've never had the need to remove wheelsets once the loco has been run in. Certainly with the High Level axleboxes, I'd imagine that a model would need to run for a very long distance to cause any significant wear on them. Similarly, the journals on the coupling rods of the High Level kit are around 1 mm thick so they shouldn't wear out very quickly, either. The High Level kit contains quite a lot besides the etched sheet - gears, wire of various gauges, brass and steel rod of .6, .8 and 1.0mm diameters, 1/16th inch o/d brass tube, top hat bearings, hornguides and axleboxes (the top hat bearings for a rigid build / the hornguides and axleboxes for a compensated build). This for the sale price of £42. So, dare I suggest that you contact Chris Gibbon, at High Level Models, to see whether he would sell just the nickel silver etched sheet which contains all of the motion and other 'twixt the mainframe' details, including the compensated brake rods and those fatter springs (three layers of etch on the High Level kit). The etched sheet does contain various spacing parts - motion plate, frame spacers, etc.- for P4, EM and 'OO' so can be built for any of those gauges. The brake linkage, shown on your photograph, is correct for the first twenty J72's (with the shorter bunker), which had separate brake pull rods either side, but is not correct for any of the later batches of J72's (the other 93 members of the class), which had a centrally located, compensated brake pull rod. This was one of the reasons why Chris Gibbon actually produced his chassis kit for the J72, though he has added many more details as well. I'm thinking that I might do the same - use parts from this etch - to furnish the internals on the J71 test build which I did earlier this year. So there could be two requests, going to Chris Gibbon at High Level, for the etched sheet only!!! Cheers Mike Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) LOADS OF TANK LOCOS Once this latest J72 is finished then time to complete the three J77's and the J71 having now got all of the necessary castings. Then into the paint shop for the five not yet painted and they can take their place on Hessle Haven. All I'll then have to do is build enough wagons for this collection of 0-6-0 shunters to shunt! Hard to imagine that in 1950, the four Hull locomotive sheds could, collectively, muster almost forty of these four classes of 0-6-0 tanks (J71, J72, J73, J77). And then, at the same time, there were literally dozens more tanks of classes A5, A6, A7, A8, C12, F4 (Hull Dairycoates had two of these ex-GE 2-4-2's), G5, L1, N8, N10, N13, T1, Y1, Y3 spread across the same Hull sheds. Even more amazing was that those same Hull sheds also had significant numbers of some twenty more tender locomotive classes, with members of perhaps another twenty to thirty classes working into or through the town. So I've still some way to go to represent this area. Cheers Mike Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Apart from some detailing on the two buffer beams, the couplings and the footplate steps then the external detailing of the loco superstructure is now complete, having added new tank fillers and North Eastern buffers from Arthur's growing range of brass castings. The latest addition to this range of brass castings is a sprue containing eight NER tapered buffers and eight LNER stepped parallel buffers, all with full rivet detail on the buffer housing baseplate. It's not a perfect model but for 50 pence (the cost of the body) plus a few quid for the rest, it's not bad and the High Level chassis kit is very good indeed!!! So now to complete this chassis. Cheers MIke Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Mike that makes me want to order some castings from Arthur! I have one of these part way through. The centre axle was not assembled square Which I have to fix then get into detailing the body... Mine was slightly cheaper than yours as it was donated by a friend from a deceased estate. Problem is mine was all painted before the check on the running side of things .... So I have to do a lot of remedial work to the ensemble before the body gets detailed. One thing that is surprising is once the body was paint striped I was surprised at the level of detail hidden under the paint.... not just the late modellers but also the original livery... There was also some damage to the foot plate between one of the tanks and the splasher which I wasn't aware of also! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Bachmann J72 Mike that makes me want to order some castings from Arthur! I have one of these part way through. The centre axle was not assembled square Which I have to fix then get into detailing the body... Mine was slightly cheaper than yours as it was donated by a friend from a deceased estate. Problem is mine was all painted before the check on the running side of things .... So I have to do a lot of remedial work to the ensemble before the body gets detailed. One thing that is surprising is once the body was paint striped I was surprised at the level of detail hidden under the paint.... not just the late modellers but also the original livery... There was also some damage to the foot plate between one of the tanks and the splasher which I wasn't aware of also! Doug, Arthur's castings certainly lift the model, especially those tank fillers. Like you, once I stripped the original green livery from the body and got back to the black plastic, then I was surprised at the level of detail. The two glaring inaccuracies are the footplate thickness and the raised beading around the cab windows, though both of these shouldn't be quite so apparent once this loco has its coat of weathered black and a generous coating of grime and muck. I did cut the tank fronts back to their correct profile, which also helps to lift the model. I see that Bachmann have re-introduced this model with a new chassis, so perhaps we'll see yet more of these conversions. Cheers Mike Edited January 11, 2018 by mikemeg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) The raised bezel on NER round cab windows is complete fiction. As far as I am aware no NER locos had these. I did make that mistake on the J24 (one of my very first kits). The photo shows the way it was done. ArthurK Edited August 13, 2015 by ArthurK 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Mike that makes me want to order some castings from Arthur! .... Does he sell castings separately? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 The raised bezel on NER round cab windows is complete fiction. As far as I am aware no NER locos had these. I did make that mistake on the J24 (one of my very first kits). The photo shows the way it was done. ArthurK Arthur, some of us try. Hinge rivets still to be replaced but here's my mk1 version, the spectacle plate looks a bit thin to my eye so I plan to turn one up. (Once I've got a lathe). It's just so I can model one open, in true Central Station summer style. Another possible inaccuracy on the Palitoy/Mainline body is the rivets along the tank top. Most of the decent top down shots taken from the Castle Keep seem to show it was welded. Anybody else any views on this. Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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