Julia Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Just discovered that after years of building modules for use with FREMO, that there is now a separate (incompatible) British outline standard. Would be nice to be able to come and play without needing to cross the channel, which got me wondering about what I would need to do to create a transition model between my FREMO modules (building them to the FREMO HO-Europa standard), and the RMWeb standard. The obvious one seems to be the height (fixable via variable height legs), but I can't seem to see how it is you connect the modules together. Do you use wing bolts/wing nuts Ala FREMO, or do you use G Clamps ala Freemo ? Cheers J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2015 G clamps the variable height legs solution is no different to how I made my Lulworth layout compatible. Lulworth was designed to be 1000mm to track height for easy viewing by wheelchair bound modellers at shows. I just added extra height by having mini legs with adjustable feet that bolt onto the side of the existing legs. I also have a two foot transition board that converts from the locating dowels to a flat end and replaces the fiddle yard board. Total cost of legs and board about £12-15. While Britmod is technically incompatible it's very easy to convert them using new or adjustable legs and short converter boards to Fremo and the reason was to provide a simpler start in modular layouts than trying to get a large community to understand Fremo without the larger support network of being able to experience it with local groups. So not incompatible, (or better ), just easier to start with as Andy and others involved had already had experience of the US Freemo meet and understood it fully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I prefer to think of Fre(e)mo as the incompatible standards with our British modular system After all, you could say why need the two fre(e)mo standards (not sure which existed first) when one already existed? I am hoping that others will now start to think about organising modular meets and making their own modules - I don't want to be the only person who ever organises the meets, or even worse for the whole concept to fall flat on its face due to lack of support and ongoing interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 What is the difference in height? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 AFAIA, there is an overlap within the +/- tolerances of both systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Having trawled through the 28 page Fremo standards document it seems that the rail top height is 1300mm which when converted to English measurements works out at 51". FreEmo states 50". We use 45". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 What is the difference in height? 1300mm (just over 51 inches) versus 45"? So about 6" difference. (Sorry, overlapped there!) I am hoping that others will now start to think about organising modular meets and making their own modules - I don't want to be the only person who ever organises the meets, or even worse for the whole concept to fall flat on its face due to lack of support and ongoing interest. From memory, it was only a year ago that Andy saw what we've done and launched the discussion about it... The meet he came to of ours we were worried that the hall would look empty....this year we're trying to fit in everything we've been offered! I'll stop now before I do the field of dreams quote... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Just discovered that after years of building modules for use with FREMO, that there is now a separate (incompatible) British outline standard. Would be nice to be able to come and play without needing to cross the channel, which got me wondering about what I would need to do to create a transition model between my FREMO modules (building them to the FREMO HO-Europa standard), and the RMWeb standard. The obvious one seems to be the height (fixable via variable height legs), but I can't seem to see how it is you connect the modules together. Do you use wing bolts/wing nuts Ala FREMO, or do you use G Clamps ala Freemo ? Cheers J How's about a Tehachapi or Ddualt style 270 degree loop, 45" Freemo at one end and 1300mm Fremo at the other...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I suppose another key thing to consider is that European Fre(e)mo modules are built to HO scale whereas we use our "Frankenstein" OO scale. The height difference is easily overcome simply by having two sets of legs for each module however there is a difference in endplate styles so you'd also need a converter board. Frankly, I'm not convinced that the effort required is really necessary - choose one standard, and stick to it. From memory, it was only a year ago that Andy saw what we've done and launched the discussion about it. Do your meets work to "Dave" or Fre(e)mo? standards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Do your meets work to "Dave" or Fre(e)mo? standards? Ours are kind of "Dave's American ancestor who has a bit of Fremo and a bit of Freemo in his family tree"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Ours are kind of "Dave's American ancestor who has a bit of Fremo and a bit of Freemo in his family tree"... Awesome so a bit "Hank" perhaps? ... are they convertible or compatible with Dave as is? Just thinking I have family in Chard so if it was compatible then I could possibly bring something along to a meet and tie it in with a family visit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2015 The Britmod / Dave standard is pretty much the RS Tower Freemo standard. The only differences are the U.S. Freemo one uses code 83 U.S. Style track and states you must have 3 inch straight at the end of each module, (which may consist of multiple boards), to avoid any kinks at a join. It's just an extra safety net really especially with some of the long US stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I like "Hank". Hank and Dave should be almost identical mechanically/electrically, we'd maybe need to be a bit wary of stock clearances I guess? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2015 we'd maybe need to be a bit wary of stock clearances I guess? Yep my N&W class A had a disagreement with the platform on a friends layout and derailed as the cylinders were too wide, mind you the UP DD35 got wedged under a bridge on another friends garden line and rolled it out sideways due to the pressure increasing the adhesion and the two big ole Athearn motors immense torque Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 LOL - when I tried that on a British layout it just stripped the airhorns off the cab roof... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted July 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2015 You can do leg extensions as i have done to make Fort Myers Freemo height. The entensions come off for conventional shows so that the skirting etc still fit when needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Frankly, I'm not convinced that the effort required is really necessary - choose one standard, and stick to it. Alas, I did, I started building to FREMO standards years ago. Perhaps if that's the view, I'll just stick to playing on the continent. Thanks J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 What I meant was that unless you have a large, complex and expensive (ie lots of pointwork) board, the work required to "convert" is probably more work than building a new board to the different standard. There is of course the other thought that our "Britmod-OO" is specifically designed for modelling UK prototypes whereas Fre(e)mo seems to be mostly American prototypes so the scenery, roads, bridges, clearances etc would all be different, not to mention the HO v OO difference too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 What I meant was that unless you have a large, complex and expensive (ie lots of pointwork) board, the work required to "convert" is probably more work than building a new board to the different standard. There is of course the other thought that our "Britmod-OO" is specifically designed for modelling UK prototypes whereas Fre(e)mo seems to be mostly American prototypes so the scenery, roads, bridges, clearances etc would all be different, not to mention the HO v OO difference too. FREMO not Freemo, the two are very different. Converting would require building what is FREMO is called a joker module, it would have a Britmod panel on one end, and a FREMO panel on the other, then it all works. I was not suggesting taking a whole module and rebuilding it to Britmod standards, rather a joker module so that I could connect my FREMO stuff to your layouts. While I'm building my modules to the FREMO H0-Europa standards, and thus ostensibly in 1:87, because they are UK outline, I've actually made them to 00 scale for the buildings etc..., just with the H0 spec for track - so 46mm track spacing, etc... The FREMO standard is largely derived from the NEM standards for many aspects of track. I notice the Britmod standard has no info on the electrical connection between modules, nor how the DCC setup works? J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There is of course the other thought that our "Britmod-OO" is specifically designed for modelling UK prototypes whereas Fre(e)mo seems to be mostly American prototypes so the scenery, roads, bridges, clearances etc would all be different, not to mention the HO v OO difference too. Freemo is the North American (geographical base) one, modelling in US HO scale - Fremo is the European (geographical base) one, it's basis is European HO but now has a number of incarnations including a North American HO and British OO version. (We tend to call ours (US Outline HO, based in the UK) Freemo/freemo too, confusion in that direction should be lessened as the chances of coming across modules built in North America is pretty low...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I notice the Britmod standard has no info on the electrical connection between modules, nor how the DCC setup works? We use banana plugs and sockets - two colours to denote which side of the module is which electrically. A pair of sockets are at each end of the module, and you provide short (or long, if you prefer) "jumper cables" to connect between the two. We don't have a specific DCC system, merely somewhere along the track electrical bus two wires go to the output of the DCC master unit, and we connect controllers via patch panels along the layout as necessary - it is a recommendation that if your module contains somewhere that trains may stop, shunt or divert to a different direction such as a junction, patch panel(s) are provided as required by the module owner, and that you obtain a couple of suitable long DCC bus cables to connect between them as necessary. It's rather vague but as we have only had the one meeting we didn't have much experience to go by - and on that occasion I provided a Lenz set plus laptop with interface, which gave us a few technical problems which we think we have now resolved for future opportunities to meet. I think we wanted to keep the 'standard' as open as possible and not restrict people to one specific manufacturer of DCC equipment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Interesting. The way FREMO do this is we use loconet, and our own design of handset (FRED). Works surprisingly well. Would any of you be interested in coming to one of the Dutch FREMO meetings to get some inspiration? Thanks J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2015 Interest and making it are two different things Julia there's no reason for a 'joker' module not to work The main thing is Britmod and Freemo work well too so as long as the Joker has two 4mm banana plugs at the end to feed power to your Fremo module Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I did try to invite SECAG modular modellers to our last 00Fremo meeting in Berlin before and that failed too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I don't know if we necessarily need "inspiration" - it's just that the modular concept is very new to most modellers of British trains (accepted that there are a lot of people modelling American in the UK that are very into modular) and it just takes a while. It's been just under one year since we decided on the standards - and I'm sure both Fremo and Freemo took a number of years of development and many changes before getting as popular as they are today. Many UK modellers are content being "individual modellers" and whilst some are happy to be part of clubs building larger layouts, both tend to be working on complete layouts at a time rather than "a bit of their own" - so it's just a need to encourage people to have a try. There's a lot of people who are waiting for someone to organise a modular meet their them before starting work on a module as they know they will be able to meet up with other people to have 'a layout' of some kind. Admittedly we did have one person travel 300 miles to come to our first meeting, but most people are only prepared to travel short distances to anything model related in the UK, and let's face it, if people wouldn't come 50 miles to our meet in Surrey, what chances are there of people travelling to another country to be part of another meeting - costing several hundred pounds which they may well prefer to spend on their own modelling meets? Whilst I have no doubt at all that we would be made very welcome in Holland or Germany, at one of your modular meets, in practical terms of requiring to sort out a flight and possibly accommodation, very few of us are in the fortunate position to be able to take up your kind offer. But never say never, of course... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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