SECAG modular meet 2016

[cromptonnut]

Hi all

 

Well, after our highly successful first meet, the general feeling was that we want to do it again - and hopefully include more members.

 

It seems that the venue fits our needs very well, as well as being accessible, so it would be again in Merstham.  However, at the moment I cannot firm up dates as there is some work being done early in the new year meaning that no bookings are currently being taken.  I'd envisage the cost to cover hall hire and refreshments staying around the £20 per person mark.

 

We can, however, get something "in the diary" so we can continue working on, or start, boards. in preparation for the day itself.  I am suggesting that we go for June again, and suggest Saturday 18th June 2016 as this will avoid clashing with the Bluebell's model railway weekend the following weekend - but again I stress that until I can get dates out of the venue we can't be 100% sure so don't go booking holiday days etc yet.

 

So... we can start chatting anyway, as to our thoughts about whether the date is practical and general expressions of interest.  Of course, if someone wants to organise another date somewhere in the SECAG area (or elsewhere, for that matter) then at least if we have a provisional date in the diary it is something that we can start working towards.  Or if there are good reasons to think of a different date, we can think about that instead.

 

'Nut

 

 

[GRC]

Any chance we could get a date before Easter whilst the modeling season is in full swing rather than waiting until June ?  Dates permitting count me in anyway :-)

[cromptonnut]

Easter is 27th March next year which seems quite early.  As I said, the main thing is dependent on when the hall is made available again following the planned building works, and I may not be able to secure a date until the new year.  If the general concensus of opinion is an earlier date then that's fine with me (assuming the hall is available of course) which is why I thought let's at least get a discussion going and see who's interested in coming to do it again.

 

My OO-9 project is being a bit of a distraction at the moment but I should be able to at least bring all the modules I had last time, and possibly I will have my beach scene ready (or at least useable) by then.

 

Of course, if someone else wants to organise a modular meet somewhere else earlier in the year, be my guest   Happy to provide whatever assistance necessary but don't want to be the lead for a venue I don't know

Edited August 1, 2015 by cromptonnut

[PaulRhB]

Certainly interested but as we have a change of roster likely early in the new year I'm not likely to be able to commit until I know what weekends I have off. On the plus side not much prep needed.

[cromptonnut]

Maybe then once we have an idea of what dates the venue is available i'll just pick a selection and go with the most popular again?

 

If the work goes ahead then it's possible the hall we had will no longer exist, and we'll use the sports hall instead.  It was the room at the rear of where we are, about the same dimensions just rotated through 90 degrees.

 

But until it's been signed off, I can't say for certain what when how if anything...

[PaulRhB]

Sounds like a plan, go for what suits the majority. Are you thinking a one day event or is two likely to be viable?

[cromptonnut]

Sounds like a plan, go for what suits the majority. Are you thinking a one day event or is two likely to be viable?

 

I don't know as yet - obviously a two day event doubles the cost of the venue hire at least, plus the either doubling of fuel costs or addition of an overnight stay somewhere (although we have plenty to choose from due to the proximity to Gatwick) which, I personally think at this early stage in our modular journey, is a bit too much for most people, as obviously if half the people only want to do one day we then end up having to spend half of day 2 rearranging what modules are left which rather wastes some hours.

 

But ... if there is a strong majority feeling that a two day event is wanted, then I'm happy to make enquiries.

[GRC]

One day for me please, cream crackerd after the last event.

[cromptonnut]

I think it is likely to be a 'one day' effort again, unless there is an overwhelming demand for it to be a two day show, obviously I wanted to get this thread started early to sound out people's thoughts before settling on a date and opening it up to the whole of RMWeb.

After all, who best placed to think about the next event than those who were at the last one?

[Kenton]

 

I am suggesting that we go for June again, and suggest Saturday 18th June 2016

Been out of country for a couple of months and just picked up your email.

 

Excellent! Count me in again. (I may even have done more work on the current module and even +1 other by then). Emphasis on the MAY the way my modelling time seems to have been stolen of late. The date is in the diary, clear at the moment, so could well stay that way.

 

A one day pass is easier to obtain from management (especially as we are are still developing the group/concept).

 

I would be interested in more events/venues but not up to the organisation involved (or at least the finding of suitable venue). The costs were very modest last time (given the entertainment value and success) so wouldn't mind if they were increased. The key thing would be anything that might help to increase participation.

 

Is it the organisation of the event that is putting other RMWeb groups off? Or is the modular concept not flying because of actual lack of interest?

[cromptonnut]

Is it the organisation of the event that is putting other RMWeb groups off? Or is the modular concept not flying because of actual lack of interest?

 

I don't know - organising an event (at least at this level) is not that onerous, once you've found a venue and got people's forms in, it's just a case of making everything fit the space available.  With <10 of us it's easy, with 40 or so participants like the massive American modular meets I can see it being more difficult - but we've got a good few years to go yet before that happens I think.

 

We've proven the concept works.  We've proven the standards are sufficient.  We identified a few problems with the DCC arrangement which, next time, we should be able to overcome - or if someone else is organising it and has a different control set to my Lenz equipment then those issues may not arise in the first place.

 

It needs a push, certainly - but we can only do so much down here in the south east area.  If someone was to organise something more central it may get more people interested (and I'd certainly be willing to travel to participate) but it may simply be that we're "too far" for a lot of people (although our participant from Carlisle blows most of that argument out of the water).

 

Or maybe it's just the thought of being in the same room as me puts people off.

 

This is, of course, just a little discussion in our area group section - I have commented on the main modular section but got very little response.  I'd hate this to go dead in the water after the great start we made back in June this year.

[Kenton]

 

This is, of course, just a little discussion in our area group section - I have commented on the main modular section but got very little response.  I'd hate this to go dead in the water after the great start we made back in June this year.

Fully agree. I know we were trailblazing but have been quite disappointed at the lack of involvement by other members and RMWeb in general. Also by this point I had hoped for more involvement and promotion to the cause (I do not mean financial) by sponsors and management.

 

40 participants seems more like dreamland now than it ever did! I was hoping for more like double that number UK-wide given the number of active modellers there out there, the easily compliant standards, and the relatively simple nature of building knocking-up a working module in relatively no time at all.

[cromptonnut]

I had hoped for more "promotion from above" as well - I did communicate with Andy York before our event but sadly he was already booked up for an event that day and was unable to join us.  Maybe next time?  There is only so much those of us in SECAG (plus honorary members...) can do.  We had this thread in March announcing the "modular challenge" but nothing since, and I'm sure there must be more needed, such as an intended meeting where we can put our boards together and "play trains".

 

But yes, it would be nice for someone else to have a go at planning a meeting as that may encourage others to get involved elsewhere in the uk.  Anyone with a little exhibition planning experience (or willing to learn from their club's exhibition manager) and a computer (which, without one, you wouldn't be on RMWeb...) can do it. 

 

You are right that a module can be put together over a weekend if you get the wood cut for you at a DIY shop (or get a ready made baseboard kit) at relatively little expense - and there's no need for it to be scenically complete, just as long as the track is wired, the rails at the right height, and the banana cables are long enough.

[Kenton]

 

Anyone with a little exhibition planning experience (or willing to learn from their club's exhibition manager)

That was what I was attempting to get at when I was suggesting a side show of an existing exhibition. It doesn't have to be with public access (though I still think there is scope for widening the audience beyond just RMWeb.

 

It is things like this that just re-enforce my disbelief that the numbers of members of RMWeb suggested by the site statistics really do stack up in reality. The community of regular posters is very small by comparison and so the numbers of likely participants ends up being even smaller.

 

The silence is all very disheartening, sad to say.

[cromptonnut]

The silence is all very disheartening, sad to say.

 

But we're British, and we can carry on regardless.

 

If there is ever only 10 of us, meeting up occasionally, having fun playing trains for a day, then I guess we aren't really the ones missing out on all the fun.  Sure, more people = more modules = bigger layout, but we had enough fun with what we had and I'm sure it will be the same next time.

 

I think a lot of RMWeb's members are "armchair modellers" (a bit like the "membership" of a certain scale society I left after six months after getting exactly the reception I was told I wouldn't) but the many excuses (time/space/money) that people come up with for not building a layout are totally overridden by the potential of Dave.

 

I suppose we are, after all, just a minority interest group at the moment (and perhaps a sub group within our minority based on our geographic location) and it'll take a while before it becomes as accepted mainstream as, say, the continental or American modular group.

[Kenton]

 

But we're British, and we can carry on regardless.

 

... and a small country in a big world but that never stopped us ...

[cromptonnut]

  ... and a small country in a big world but that never stopped us ...

 

Indeed.   Come along then you lovely boys, look sharp and let's get building some more modules.

 

[Kenton]

If I get your drift those of us who participate need to rename it "Frank" ?

 

It is a bit Catch 22 - those few who have made some small effort to get moving on this project sort of have the right to treat it as a bit of fun and gain some entertainment out of it - when we get taken seriously by numbers of others participating, perhaps then we will start to believe in it being a place for serious folk.

[cromptonnut]

 

Anyway, I see where you're coming from Kenton and I understand you guys wanna have fun. But it's not your project, it was Andy Y who tested the waters, so the name he gave it, goes

 

I do agree that it's high time Andy kinda "takes charge", although I'm aware he has plenty on his plate running the site and satisfy his paymasters

 

Surely "taking charge" of the Modular project means actually doing something with it?

 

I've made it very clear right from when we first 'went public' with the idea that anyone - whether in "our area" or not - was welcome if they were happy to travel, and we had two people from outside our area, and one significantly, therefore there can be no "outsiders".   Would you be throwing the "outsiders" accusation around if I, as a regular user, had decided to try and organise something rather than doing it under the banner of a small and insignificant RMWeb area group?

 

I would hope that anyone else who organises a modular meet anywhere in the UK would extend the same invitation to anyone, so it isn't just a 'south east' thing. It'll only remain a 'south east thing' if we're the only random group of people linked only by a loose geographical area that bother to organise something, and  if nobody else in our area offers to organise a meet, then I'll continue to organise as best I can meetings using the venue in Merstham, which worked very well for us this last time.

Edited August 24, 2015 by cromptonnut

[cromptonnut]

It is a bit Catch 22 - those few who have made some small effort to get moving on this project sort of have the right to treat it as a bit of fun and gain some entertainment out of it - when we get taken seriously by numbers of others participating, perhaps then we will start to believe in it being a place for serious folk.

 

The RMWeb modular project can take any number of different forms.  There's no reason people can't do like we did and have a 'free for all' play session, if others want to run to a timetable then they are very welcome to - either are perfectly acceptable as long as it's made clear from the start when you sign up how things are going to be run on the day.

 

There's also no reason why, when there's enough people, you can't have a meet where you only have GWR themed modules, running GWR stock, emulating that stereotype branchline operation.  Once there are enough people, of course - although I have several boards that are vague scenery and could be used for virtually any time period and location.

 

The modular standards only dictate the width of boards, height of rail above ground level, minimum radius of curves and some electrical gubbins.  Everything else is left to the builder to decide.

 

I think that there is a misunderstanding here that 'our' modular standard needs to be run in the same way as other more developed modular standards have done, almost because "it works for us so it should work for you" ... but there must be reasons why we are creating our own standard rather than just blindly following something designed for overseas prototypes.  Maybe those following "other standards" need to take a step back and think why we're doing that.  It is not just because we are British and like to do things differently to everyone else (like driving on the correct side of the road, for example).

[Kenton]

 

Anyway, I see where you're coming from Kenton and I understand you guys wanna have fun. But it's not your project, it was Andy Y who tested the waters, so the name he gave it, goes

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I do agree that it's high time Andy kinda "takes charge", although I'm aware he has plenty on his plate running the site and satisfy his paymasters

DM It isn't just about "fun" and the implication that the European or US Fre(e)mo followers do not have fun. It is more about a road to somewhere and why deny us some fun getting there. If part of that is laughing at ourselves "calling it Dave, or whatever" then who is to say otherwise. The "vote" on a name was never really concluded - part of the reason it is mocked as "Dave" and was voted on by only a few, many of which are not taking any active role in participating. As the numbers of devotes increase there may come up with a general consensus, actually I care little what the group is called, hence another reason for the mocking "Dave".

 

Andy Y threw the ball into the RMWeb arena, if you go back to the original discussion you will see there were very few really credible participants. I'm not saying "credible" excludes the participants who were anti the BritOOMod concept or who contributed to the discussion from the Fre(e)mo camps. Just credible in the sense they appeared to want to join in. Even that is only a starting point as I said earlier the concept has been proven it now need more advocates, sponsors, wider participation. I do not see us getting that from just the tiny SECAG group or this discussion in a somewhat isolated area in the forum.

 

I don't know if Andy Y has completely lost interest or even if he is just standing on the side-lines watching it all ferment. But the lack of participation could easily be understood by those reading as it is not getting any support from RMWeb and that it is just a bunch of cranks on here (most of whom can always be relied on to post too much) and who spend much of their time arguing about a lot but appear to do nothing. With only 6 of us participating in an event that was open to all does seem to support that theory.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Kenton

[Glorious NSE]

 I suppose we are, after all, just a minority interest group at the moment (and perhaps a sub group within our minority based on our geographic location) and it'll take a while before it becomes as accepted mainstream as, say, the continental or American modular group.

 

I think, from our point of view (modelling US in UK), it's probably easier for us to have made an impression as the pool of folk modelling what we do is smaller, so getting that message out to a lot of folk relative to the size of our community is maybe not so hard.

 

You guys have the benefit of a catchment of modellers many, many times the size we have, but the challenge of getting yourselves seen and understood within that much bigger community (which is a more traditionally conservative one as well) is a bigger one.

 

But it's not your project

Not sure that's a helpful way to look at it - Fremo on the continent comes from a background of having decades of experience and an well defined organisational structure, this doesn't. Yet. Conceivably it may never have that structure.

 

Ultimately where this goes, and whether it is a success (by whatever criteria you choose to apply) is down to the folk who are actively involved.

 

(And 6 like minded folk having fun playing trains is success, though more is nice...)

 

I do agree with this bit below if the intention is to grow: 

 

You guys really need to consider how outsiders, whether interested or not, look at you as a group.

But ultimately you can go a **long** way by:

 

1. Getting stuck in.

2. Enjoying what you do.

3. Being seen to enjoy what you do!

4. Be open and accommodating to folk that want to explore the concept.

5. Being mildly evangelical about it.

6. Understand that it might take some folk several years between "I like the idea of" and "here's my module..."

 

[cromptonnut]

Fremo on the continent comes from a background of having decades of experience and an well defined organisational structure, this doesn't. Yet. Conceivably it may never have that structure.

 

Personally I hope it never does.  With all this 'regulation end board profiles', specific ranges of colours for scatter and all the other pages and pages of rules, to me that sucks all the fun out of it.  Others may of course disagree and that's fine.

 

As noted elsewhere, it is those that are "involved", that decided we'd have a go at making something even if fairly simple, who will drive the project forward.  I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination, so at the moment the "lead" is being taken by me (by nature of organising a meeting) and the direction shaped by those who decide to participate in that meeting by the boards that they contribute.

 

Someone else organising a meeting somewhere else may well have different/better (delete as appropriate) ides on how it should be done, which may turn out to be better than my attempts at organising a meeting.  But until someone else actually does, it falls to me and those of us who want to travel to Merstham and have fun with whatever we call it - and let's be honest here, the name of the project is the least important thing.

 

I'm big enough and ugly enough to put up with a bit of criticism, constructive or otherwise, justified or otherwise, about the way things are put together to make the next meet better.  What I don't like is criticism from those who have little to no interest in being involved, for whatever reason.

[Dungrange]

Comptonut,

 

I don't think that anyone (not even Dutch_Master) is criticising what you have done with regards organising an inaugural meet and offering to arrange another similar event in 2016.  Especially when you also seem to be an enthusiastic participant and active module builder.  However, as someone else who lives outside of the SECAG area, I can sort of understand the point that I think Dutch_Master was trying to make.  How do you see the British outline modular concept moving forward in the UK?

 

If you see it becoming a national standard, with BritMod-00 modules all over the UK, then it would be helpful to refer to the standard by the 'agreed' name, which helps to 'create a brand' for want of a better expression, which would help others from outside of the SECAG area to 'buy-in' to the modular concept and standards set out on this site.  I think that the point that Dutch_Master was trying to make is that this would help to promote wider participation across the UK.  However, I agree that the task of UK wide promotion does not fall on you (or any member of the SECAG area for that matter).

 

However, whilst I understand that references to 'Dave' are intended as 'light-hearted' banter, they could be off putting to a wider audience as two different names may imply two slightly different standards and maybe 'Dave' is just a bunch of guys from the South East of England messing about with their own concept and having a laugh.  Yes, they may be having fun, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I want to join them (by reason of geography).  However, if they are working to promote a standard that is used elsewhere across the country and are the start of a national movement that is in its embrionic stage, then maybe I do want to become involved if I feel that others in my area will be adopting the same standards.

 

Personally, I think it's understandable that the first meet or two should be arranged on the basis of 'just having fun' as it is uncertain at this stage whether the BritMod-00 concept will ever 'take-off', but at some point in the future, once you are passed the 'proof of concept' stage, there is perhaps a greater need to consider the promotion of the concept (or at least assist with the promotion of the concept) to help the BritMod-00 movement to grow.

 

Keep up the good work and best of luck with whatever you arrange in 2016.  May that be the second of a number of events.

[Kenton]

 

refer to the standard by the 'agreed' name, which helps to 'create a brand' for want of a better expression, which would help others from outside of the SECAG area to 'buy-in' to the modular concept and standards set out on this site.

As I said above and want to reiterate the name is undefined (certainly was not conclusive) and the "standard" for want of a better term is still under test. It is certainly flexible as we saw at the meeting - eve the height standard was to some extent "flexible" and the width most certainly was. The big point that was made was that the standard was very accommodating as long as everyone involved wanted to be that way.

 

I hope it remains that way for a long time. General, flexible and accommodating.

 

Sure, there has to be something and if someone builds a module that stands at 2ft off the ground then they can expect problems. By my inclusivity hat will take over and I'll be looking for chairs/books/tool boxes anything to get their effort up to the same approximate height as the others.

 

I guess we have wandered off topic (oh dear my fault again) and we should be discussing this in the general forum where other posters are more likely to spot it and get involved. Part of me is fast coming to the conclusion that we are just chewing the same fat with the same old contributors who are either pro or against the concept. Going round in the inevitable ever diminishing closed circle of posters. Never getting any of the other many thousands of silent RMWebbers to ever contribute to the discussion let alone build a module.

 

Is this really what it feels like to model in P4?