Ben Alder Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 A quick thumbs up here for the recently released LMS cattle wagon- a decent kit of this has been long overdue IMO. It is of the earliest LMS build but can be tweaked into a later version fairly easily. From what I can glean, some were fitted with vacuum brakes along the way, and if anyone can expand on this I would be grateful- finding info, or indeed images, of these wagons has been proving elusive. A batch build will be started once I have some idea of what I can do with them. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://sithlordsrailwayblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/lms-cattle-wagons.html I know this is N but you might find some info that's of use here. (Not my blog by the way, I just Googled LMS Cattle Wagons, pictures) Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 By the look of it, it's for a D1661 wagon with a small drop flap door. According to LMS wagons volume 1 some of these had through vacuum pipes, but not vacuum brakes. That said, the same books says that the later D1840 wagons were through piped only, and has a broadside photo of one that clearly shows a vacuum cylinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted August 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Hi, in 'An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons' volume 1 (pages 24-26) it indicates that some of D1661 were built unfitted and others were built with a through vacuum pipe, but it doesn't refer to any being vacuum braked, either when built or as a later modification. It also points out that there were variations in the depth of the drop doors - the pictures in the book show that these could either be shallow (one and a half planks deep) or deep (three planks deep). As far as I can tell from your picture, the Parkside kit seems to depict the shallow pattern of drop door. However the entry for D1840 says that these were "identical to D1661, apart from the drop door variations and the fact that all the lots comprising D1840 were fitted with A.V. hand brakes of Morton pattern and steam heating pipes....". The pictures published in the book of D1840 vacuum fitted wagons all show wagons with 'deep' drop doors, i.e. not the kind depicted by the kit. Not quite sure whether this should be taken as stating conclusively that the D1840 vac fitted wagons only had 'deep' drop doors! Despite the description of the brakes fitted to D1840 quoted above, all the pictures in the book of these wagons actually show vehicles with 8-shoe clasp brakes, with shorter hand brake levers than those fitted to D1661. Hope this helps - it looks like an interesting kit to build! Edit - just read Pete's reply - more succinct than mine! Edited August 9, 2015 by 31A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yes, I've read the LMS wagons entry on them, and it raises as many questions as answers! There are shots, usually in the background,of these types carrying BR bauxite livery so some at least must have been so fitted. The last build type would perhaps been a more suitable one for the BR era but it's a bit harsh to quibble when Parkside are still showing enthusiasm for the 4mm market. It must be discouraging for them to see the Big Two working their way through their range... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted August 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2015 I wondered how Parkside would model the diagonal strapping, given that you can 'see through' behind it - from the picture of the kit parts, it looks as though these are separate pieces. On later wagons, the top ends of these diagonals seem to be attached to square blocks in the corners of the side framing, rather than just bolted at their top corners. Looks as though this modification should be possible to the kit parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted August 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2015 This might be of intertest. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89357-brinkly-works/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1975839 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 A quick thumbs up here for the recently released LMS cattle wagon- a decent kit of this has been long overdue IMO. It is of the earliest LMS build but can be tweaked into a later version fairly easily. From what I can glean, some were fitted with vacuum brakes along the way, and if anyone can expand on this I would be grateful- finding info, or indeed images, of these wagons has been proving elusive. A batch build will be started once I have some idea of what I can do with them. IMG_0850.jpg There has been a highly detailed kit of this wagon in the David Geen kits range for several years. The instructions with the David Geen kit is fully illustrated with images of the prototype. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 My biggest problem with Parkside kits from recent years has been the production of kits with Headstocks attached to the wagon ends is that you can't get a complete chassis for use on you rebuild projects! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Another winner from Parkside! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) I wondered how Parkside would model the diagonal strapping, given that you can 'see through' behind it - from the picture of the kit parts, it looks as though these are separate pieces. On later wagons, the top ends of these diagonals seem to be attached to square blocks in the corners of the side framing, rather than just bolted at their top corners. Looks as though this modification should be possible to the kit parts. They suggest a strip of plasticard - supplied- but I will probably use a bit of brass strip. This might be of intertest. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89357-brinkly-works/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1975839 Thanks- had passed this one by somehow. If I had known about it wouldn't have bothered with mine, but it has thrown up some useful links - many thanks. I'll post up the build once I get round to it. Edited August 9, 2015 by Ben Alder 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yes, I've read the LMS wagons entry on them, and it raises as many questions as answers! There are shots, usually in the background,of these types carrying BR bauxite livery so some at least must have been so fitted. The last build type would perhaps been a more suitable one for the BR era but it's a bit harsh to quibble when Parkside are still showing enthusiasm for the 4mm market. It must be discouraging for them to see the Big Two working their way through their range... BR used freight stock red on piped wagons as well as fully fitted ones. Only unfitted ones were grey. And it would have been years before the LMS red was painted over, if at all, as the early BR era painting of unfitted wood framed wagons was to leave wood unpainted, with only the steelwork in the appropriate grey. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Thanks for that- very useful. That's something I hadn't picked up on before, probably because I've never had much dealings with this type of vehicle, so it seems that I won't have to do a train of weathered grey after all- wasn't looking forward to that task at all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Slightly OT, but just in case anyone isn't aware of the buffers available from Parkside (Lanarkshire section). At a very fair price for a wagon pack for 4mm I am using a considerable quantity of these beautiful little castings on Parkside, Cambrian and a few old Airfix Kits I have. The Lanarkshire part of the Parkside range has a quite extensive info on the sort of wagons each buffer set is suitable for. This is very useful for me alongside Paul B's lovely range of photo's. The limited but excellent Slimrails range I use has cast buffers anyway. Apologies if all you guys know this already. Phil Edited August 10, 2015 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted August 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) They suggest a strip of plasticard - supplied- but I will probably use a bit of brass strip. Thanks- had passed this one by somehow. If I had known about it wouldn't have bothered with mine, but it has thrown up some useful links - many thanks. I'll post up the build once I get round to it. Thanks - that's interesting. I'd wondered whether they'd include the diagonals as etched parts (in the way that Cambrian do with axleguard tie bars in some of their kits); I'm sure brass strip would be preferable to plasticard for robustness. Another question if I may - 'LMS Wagons' mentions that some of these wagons were used for Ale traffic, and I wondered whether anybody knew where or when they were used for this? I have no scope for cattle traffic on my layout, but already have a couple of BR cattle wagons branded for 'Ale' and this would be a good excuse to add another! Edited August 10, 2015 by 31A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Slightly OT, but just in case anyone isn't aware of the buffers available from Parkside (Lanarkshire section). At a very fair price for a wagon pack for 4mm I am using a considerable quantity of these beautiful little castings on Parkside, Cambrian and a few old Airfix Kits I have. The Lanarkshire part of the Parkside range has a quite extensive info on the sort of wagons each buffer set is suitable for. This is very useful for me alongside Paul B's lovely range of photo's. The limited but excellent Slimrails range I use has cast buffers anyway. Apologies if all you guys know this already. Phil Thanks Phil, this wagon looks like a good kit and I may have a few myself for Wharfeside. The Lanarkshire Models buffers for this van would be our number B003 for the unfitted and B004 for the piped and vac fitted. If some were retro vac fitted then B005 would be the one or B008 for an option. Vac pipes, VP01 and cylinders, VC01 are also suitable. Hope that helps, for further info check out our website. :- www.lanarkshiremodels.com Dave Franks Edited August 10, 2015 by davefrk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Thanks all- lots of gen now gathered. A link to a link led me to Geoff Kent's The 4mm wagon Pt II -sitting on my shelf, and an inspiration to wagon nuts everywhere, but overlooked in my searches. It has a couple of pages with reference material and photos on these wagons and has made things a good bit clearer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I've just gone and ordered six of these cattle wagons. Been looking forward to this kit since hearing about it in January/February this year. Even better to hear that with some tweaking, you can do the D1840 diagram. Will you be doing the D1840 alongside the D1661 diagram? Be interesting to see how the completed PD kit looks when compared to the Slaters one I own (below). 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Doing both varieties is indeed the plan. When it is done is another matter- I have twelve kits- sheep and cattle were big business at seasonal times in the Far North, and I will have to allow a decent amount of time for this one especially if I am going to be doing mods. I'd like to do another CR 812 while its fresh in my memory and there is a build up of ex-HR coach sides from uax 6's Silhouette cutter that deserve attention, along with the likelihood of some more to come. A refurbishment of some of the LMS coaching stock is half done as well, so I'll clear the decks on some of these before tackling the Parksides, but I'll keep looking for any further info on them. I've got another couple of leads to follow up, so it won't be wasted time for them. Hopefully it will mean that my venerable Airfix fleet can be retired at last- several of these date back to 1970 and have been on every layout I made, the first"adult" one being an interpretation of Thurso, so it shows you how far I've got in the last forty five years ... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I received my six kits today from Parkside Dundas and I have to say I am impressed with the kit as always. Hopefully I'll be soon sending my kits to a friend to be built and my hope is to have three D1661s and three D1840s. The D1840s will depend on how much tweaking is required to get the doors looking right. If it's too much hassle, then I will have two or three D1661's built and keep the others for a later date... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2015 This look great, I'll have to invest in 1 or 2. I've got a Slaters MR cattle wagon that was supplied with the incorrect underframe but as I got as much chance of getting that corrected as finding some rocking horse manure, I think these would be an excellent substitute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2015 Saw this wagon, finished, at a friend's layout paradise yesterday afternoon. Looks lovely. He has done just a couple of mods with the side,diagonal strapping. Lovely model. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Saw this wagon, finished, at a friend's layout paradise yesterday afternoon. Looks lovely. He has done just a couple of mods with the side,diagonal strapping. Lovely model. Phil Was that a D1661 Phil? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2015 Was that a D1661 Phil? Sorry matey, I haven't got a clue. However, he had just built the kit as supplied and then replaced the plastic straps with PB strip (as far as ai remember). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) On the subject of new kits, has anyone seen the new GWR Y4 Banana van kit yet? Just ordered five of them from PD... **UPDATE** I've had an email from PD Hello Gareth Thank you for your order for 5 x PC88. This kit is due for release in the next 7 days. We will contact you when available. Kind Regards Andrew Edited September 10, 2015 by Garethp8873 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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