New DCC controller "ACE" from Sig-na Trak

[Sig-naTrak Tony]

My only slight niggle is that the repeat rate on buttons is a bit slow, for example when typing in a loco address, there needs to be a very slight pause between taps of the number keys, but that is only a very minor preference, and overall am very happy with the unit.

JDW, It was nice to talk with you over the weekend and am pleased your initial experience with the ACE have been positive.

 

Variable-speed key auto repeat is on the wish list for V4 functionality, as is the communication interface API for USB and OPTIONS port IO control for PC control and the LocoNet and ExpressNet interfaces. This will also open up the ability to use more complicated throttle handsets.

[tender]

If you are after an iPad style controller, I would have to suggest that an iPad or Android tablet (with its associated costs) plus some form of interface for it via WiFi or Bluetooth to your layout would suite your needs better than the ACE.

Have you considered the ESU ECoS controller?

Or a Pi-Sprog with WiThrottle or Traincontroller running on a Apple/Android device. (£120 if you already have a smartphone/tablet)

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/shop.shtml

[johnd]

Or a Pi-Sprog with WiThrottle or Traincontroller running on a Apple/Android device. (£120 if you already have a smartphone/tablet)

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/shop.shtml

 

Looks like there is a bit of advertising going on here. Naughty  naughty

[tender]

Looks like there is a bit of advertising going on here. Naughty naughty

You can look at it that way if you want, but I was just pointing out an alternative to the rather expensive ESU ECoS controller that Tony had suggested.

I will add that I have no connection with Sprog-Dcc.

Edited March 2, 2017 by tender

[Oakydoke]

If you are after an iPad style controller, I would have to suggest that an iPad or Android tablet (with its associated costs).....

It depends what you mean by associated costs?

iPad or Android tablet controller options are aimed at people who already own such a device, as many millions of people do.

The tablet is a no cost element.

The associated costs are the cost of an app (if it isn't free as some are) and the cost of associated DCC hardware, which may already be owned, possibly just requiring an interface.

 

The Ace appears to be a very affordable option though and IMHO well worthy of consideration.

If an app can be produced, to enable the direct use of smartphones or tablets as handheld throttles, without resorting to the use of a 3rd party computer software package in between, Sig-naTrak will be on to a winner.

[Sig-naTrak Tony]

I must stress that I was pointing towards the ECoS for the integrated touch screen and custom moulded case and so on that was being discussed.

 

"Associated Costs" was directly aimed at the other side of the tablet ... so connection to your layout, software and so on (such as the £120 for the PiSprog option and the setting up of it).

 

I feel that I am being put on the defensive about the ACE at the moment. While I am sure that is not the intention, I think it's time to say unequivocally that the form factor of the ACE is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. An expensive case moulding or flush iPad style screens are not really an option with the small volumes that we are producing. Those touch screens are designed to use a mated touch panel and display, which we are not doing with a 4 inch display and 7 inch touch panel. While the look of the ACE may not be ideal, it was a matter of finding a suitable case that could hold all the components, including the ports on the back in the most user-friendly manner. The case we use has an angled top for better viewing, all the others we looked at were "oblong" in shape and gave poor visibility of the screen with reflections from lights, and having to lean over to see the screen.

 

The DRIVER handset does not suit everybody, and we accept that. We knew this when it was built, but at the same time they are working well for lots of people. We have always said that we will continue to develop the ACE, and we are continuing to do so - albeit slowly of late and this has also been explained in previous posts.

This will include the following interfaces that we are in the process of developing at the moment ...

• LocoNet interface
  • Will allow you to plug in the Digitrax (and compatible) throttle handsets including the Zepher and DT40x series to the ACE.
  • Will allow you to plug the ACE into an existing LocoNet cabled layout and use Digitrax UPx series panels with IR and use the wireless handsets to control the ACE
  • Will allow you to use the ACE on an existing Digitrax Command Station as a throttle
• ExpressNet interface
  • Will allow you to plug compatible XpressNet throttles into the ACE.
• Radio Control interface
  • This module will allow you to use radio fitted "DRIVER" handsets with the ACE without the need to be connected to the ace with physical wires.
  • We also hope to develop an enhanced throttle for use with the Radio interface that will also allow you to change loco and throw points and accessories.
• Enhanced USB Interface Protocol
  • This will allow users to connect to the PC and use the ACE through JMRI/RR&C/RocRail and possibly also the Hornby Railmaster and Bachmann Dynamis software.

Once we have the USB interface working, you would be able to use the iPad and Android WiThrottle/EngineDriver software with the ACE.

 

As you can imagine, we are a very small team and operating as a part-time "hobby" business at the moment. If we were able to leave our day jobs behind and concentrate on this full time we would, but unfortunately mortgages, rent, and general life means that we are unable to do so.

[Revolution Mike]

I must confess that I was really impressed with the ACE following a demonstration of its capabilities (by Tony?) at the recent Glasgow show.  It felt like a well thought out system that made things easy for DCC beginners (and more advanced users as well) with lots of potential for expansion. The combination of the touch buttons, the screen and the througt put into how the system works were all pluses for me.

 

I've already got 2 or 3 DCC systems but if I was in the market for a system (particularly if I was starting out in DCC) then the ACE would be up there on my list.

 

Cheers, Mike

Edited March 2, 2017 by red death

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Tony,

 

I saw the same demo as Mike and as something of a DCC ignoramus I must say it looks like a good system and a lot less confusing than some I have had demonstrated to me, or indeed operated on friends' layouts.

 

Also, having watched it in action, I did not feel that the casing was anything less than completely fit for purpose, which suggests to me that you have got the balance right between making it cost effective and functional.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[andi4x4]

The style of touch panel that is used on the ACE, which is a resistive rather than capacitive screen, must have a border as it has a 'dead zone' around the edge of the screen. I must also point out that tge ACE only has a 4 inch screen, the rest of the 7 inch touch panel being a static button section which was on all active screens anyway and reduced the cost of the screen.

 

Unfortunately, a custom moulding with a nice bezel would (as previously stated) add a large tooling and moulding cost for the volume we anticipate producing and as the screen we use is not compatible with a flat panel capacitive iPad/Tablet style screen.

 

If you are after an iPad style controller, I would have to suggest that an iPad or Android tablet (with its associated costs) plus some form of interface for it via WiFi or Bluetooth to your layout would suite your needs better than the ACE.

 

Have you considered the ESU ECoS controller?

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

Wasn't having a dig at the ACE, or its manufacture, just wondering if there was already a suitable bezel produced that could possibly be utilized.  I understand what you are saying about dead space around the screen edge, and I didnt realise there was such a big dead space on the screens you are using.

 

I have looked at many DCC systems, including the ESU one you mentioned, and have ruled most of them out for one reason or another - cost being the main factor with the ESU system. I currently use the both the Hornby Select (when I just want a quick running session) or the Hornby eLink with Railmaster software on my laptop for more advanced and prolonged operating sessions (and programming), both of which are more than adequate for my wants and needs. eLink and Railmaster have apps available for loco and layout control - you can use a smartphone as a wireless throttle, and a tablet for both throttle and accessory control with an active mimic panel for points and accessory control.

 

My one remaining desire, however, is to get away from using PC/tablet/smartphone for railway control as I seem to use them for just about everything else in life (including work). I much prefer knobs and switches and am looking at systems that will allow me to build a traditional style control panel with switches to operates points, etc,  and a hand controller that has a free turning throttle knob (with DCC system remembering throttle settings for locos) and a few buttons for the most commonly used loco functions. I know there are other, non-DCC options for the control panel and points control (Megapoints being one) - I am considering those too - but, in the respect of Human Interface with a hand held controller with DCC features, the ACE Driver handset has come closest to what I want so far, apart from the free turning throttle knob.

 

I realise there is no one system out there at the moment that fits my requirements 100%, so, it may well be a case of Mix and Match with more than one type of control system, using just the components that fit the bill for my needs.

 

I will get there eventually !

[JDW]

Thanks for your reply to my comment Tony, and yes, experiences have been positive.  For what it is worth, I don't really think there's a need to change the design of the case, it works fine, does the job, as you said the angled fascia makes viewing easier.  Personal preference would be a slightly bigger but less tall knob for speed control on the Driver handsets, but again, that isn't really a criticism, and if I'd known when I bought it that using the touchscreen and stylus would be as easy as it is, I might only have bought one handset, but at £19 a second is always going to be handy.  Ont thing that puts me off the idea of using a tablet or phone is the slippy smooth screen and the difficulty of fine control, the screen you use seems a bit more "matt" with a little more resistance for the stylus and gives easy fine control.

 

I don't know if it would be possible, or practical, or if many would be interested, but if it were possible to display the full train list (with DCC address and loco description) and select one by tapping it, that could be useful - for example, although I know most of the DCC addresses saved on it by heart, people who aren't familiar with my stock might find it easier to be able to click "Stock List", scroll down and just select "411 - DRS Stobart 66" for example, without needing to know that the address is 411.  Not a huge "must", just a thought!

[johnd]

Thanks for your reply to my comment Tony, and yes, experiences have been positive.  For what it is worth, I don't really think there's a need to change the design of the case, it works fine, does the job, as you said the angled fascia makes viewing easier.  Personal preference would be a slightly bigger but less tall knob for speed control on the Driver handsets, but again, that isn't really a criticism, and if I'd known when I bought it that using the touchscreen and stylus would be as easy as it is, I might only have bought one handset, but at £19 a second is always going to be handy.  Ont thing that puts me off the idea of using a tablet or phone is the slippy smooth screen and the difficulty of fine control, the screen you use seems a bit more "matt" with a little more resistance for the stylus and gives easy fine control.

 

I don't know if it would be possible, or practical, or if many would be interested, but if it were possible to display the full train list (with DCC address and loco description) and select one by tapping it, that could be useful - for example, although I know most of the DCC addresses saved on it by heart, people who aren't familiar with my stock might find it easier to be able to click "Stock List", scroll down and just select "411 - DRS Stobart 66" for example, without needing to know that the address is 411.  Not a huge "must", just a thought!

 

All my Locos used with the ace have the address as the loco number if there are 4 or less and if there are 5 or more the last 4 numbers on the cab side.

 

Various people have used my controller  and have found it easy to control and change from one loco to another.

 

A simple system that works well.

[Dungrange]

I've no problem with the base unit (apart from the lack of the route function), it's the handheld remotes that put me off. I'd happily pay more for something a bit more sophisticated. Like a display showing what loco you were controlling and the loco speed being passed over when switching from main unit to remote (and vice versa) instead of coming to a halt.

 

I understand your point of view (and I don't disagree), but I think this is highly dependent on your experience with DCC and how you approach the ACE.  If you are an experienced DCC user then you will most likely be used to a relatively large handheld controller that has dozens of buttons to control everything you might need at your fingertips.   If you expect the DRIVER to replicate that, then it wont.

 

However, I was at Model Rail Scotland on Saturday and between several visits to the Sig-na-Trak stand for another play with the ACE and ask Tony a rather large number of beginners DCC questions (Thanks Tony), I was operating our club layout. The club layout is analogue and we have a control panel that has a track diagram with section switches and switches to change turnouts and signals.  Once the desired route is set up, I pick up one of our Gaugemaster Hand-held controllers and drive the train.  The Gaugemaster Hand-held controllers that we use are about the same size as the DRIVER and have nothing more than a knob to control the speed and a switch to change direction.  I can't do anything else.  Therefore, from my point of view, the DRIVER is very similar to what I am used to but with a few extra functions.  I suspect that I'm the sort of market that the DRIVER is aimed at.

 

As a non-DCC user who is attracted to some of the additional functionality that DCC provides (in particular, lighting) the ACE / DRIVER doesn't appear to be such a daunting step as some of the DCC systems currently on the market that seem to have dozens of buttons.  Whilst I didn't make a purchase at Model Rail Scotland, the ACE remains on my shortlist of potential systems once I'm in the market to switch to DCC.

[Dungrange]

What would make the ACE less "Fisher Price" like?

What would make the DRIVER less "Fisher Price" like?

What additional functions (other than Routes which we are working on) would you like to see from the ACE in v4?

 

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with "Fisher Price" toys.  They are designed to be durable and able to withstand the rough handling that comes from being played with by children.  This tends to result in a rugged body with no sharp edges or little bits to be broken off.  In the case of the ACE, I think the "Fisher Price" look primarily comes from the relative depth that the touch screen is set back from the front of the outer case but there isn't very much that you can do about that if the case is an existing product.  Also, modern technology is such that mention of a touch screen and I tend to think of a tablet or i-pad where the screen covers the whole front face of the device and by extension tend to think about something that is relatively slimline.  The ACE doesn't meet those expectations with regards 2017 technology, but Apple make many more i-pads than the number of ACE controllers you will ever make. I think users just have to accept the ACE for what it is.  It is different from its competitors.

 

For those who want to use an i-pad like device to control trains there is always products or protocols like JMRI (thanks for enlightening me on what it means), but for a beginner, I'm not interested in learning such complexity.  I want to drive trains, not play with a PC / Tablet.  I want something that is quick to set up.  As I highlighted in my post above, the DRIVER isn't radically different from the Gaugemaster Hand-held controllers that we use on our club layouts, so I don't see anything wrong with the DRIVER.  I could argue that the edges of the DRIVER were more rounded and this could add to the "Fisher Price" look, insofar as such toys tend to have more rounded corners (ie no sharp edges).  However, I could also argue that the more rounded edges are a better ergonomic design.  It was certainly comfortable enough in my hand when you let me have a play. Whether or not something is comfortable to hold is more important than what it looks like.

 

What functions would I like to see in a future update?  Well, routes would be good.  I'd much rather select "Route 3" to set a route from fiddle yard to Platform 3 than change points 1, 2 and 3 individually.  I think I'd also like to see the LocoNet functionality to make use of your SIGM20 board to control colour light signalling.  I suspect that the SIGM20 does what I would ultimately like when combined with the Digitrax block detection module you had on display at Glasgow, so it would be good if these would 'talk' to each other.

 

My priorities at the moment are finishing baseboards and building C&L track, but at least I have a slightly clearer idea of how I need to create electrical sections for block occupancy detection to drive signal control before I get to the wiring.  At that stage, it will definitely be time for me to purchase a DCC controller and the ACE remains on my shortlist.  If nothing else the touch screen may get my games console obsessed son to show an interest in model railways!

[Dungrange]

I don't know if it would be possible, or practical, or if many would be interested, but if it were possible to display the full train list (with DCC address and loco description) and select one by tapping it, that could be useful - for example, although I know most of the DCC addresses saved on it by heart, people who aren't familiar with my stock might find it easier to be able to click "Stock List", scroll down and just select "411 - DRS Stobart 66" for example, without needing to know that the address is 411.  Not a huge "must", just a thought!

 

I would also be interested in this functionality since if I were to have say 20 locomotives and multiple units on a layout, being able to scroll and select from a list would be more useful than clicking up and down a list (especially if the list also contains consists).  Whilst it is easy enough to have a system of using the first or last four digits of the locomotive number to 'know' the locomotive address, for some multiple units the number isn't that obvious and the description would be a much easier way to identify a unit.  However, I wouldn't consider that to be a make or break reason for not purchasing an ACE.

[JDW]

I would also be interested in this functionality since if I were to have say 20 locomotives and multiple units on a layout, being able to scroll and select from a list would be more useful than clicking up and down a list (especially if the list also contains consists).  Whilst it is easy enough to have a system of using the first or last four digits of the locomotive number to 'know' the locomotive address, for some multiple units the number isn't that obvious and the description would be a much easier way to identify a unit.  However, I wouldn't consider that to be a make or break reason for not purchasing an ACE.

 

I'd written a post saying something similar, but must not have clicked "Post"!  Not a make or break by any means as you say, it was just offered as a helpful suggestion - and units was one of the things I had in mind in my particular case, as they tend to be further away from the operator and with smaller numbers, plus many people pay much less attention to DMUs than locos, celebrity schemes like 60081 or 47145 are easy to remember, and EWS locos have the number nice and big on the side, but that Central Trains 170 sat at the far end of the fiddle yard...?

 

Anyways, I was just thinking out loud, I don't want to distract too far from the thread with personal preferences, and am happy to reaffirm that I am more than happy with the operation and functionality of the ACE, which suits my needs perfectly, and strikes a good balance between "basic" and high end DCC systems.  

Edited March 3, 2017 by JDW

[spice1977]

I started out in DCC with a Hornby Select, moving upto the e-link and then NCE Powercab. I have taken the plunge and ordered and ACE-2. Currently using the Powercab with the USB module, auto switch and protection circuitry. I don't particularly like using JMRI for layout control so I only use the Decoder Pro part of it to back up my locos - so that development would interest me a lot. Like the idea of being able to name the accessories and functions - although wont use it for the functions as too many different types of sound chip installed and don't wish to remap the whole lot! I use DCC Concepts Digital IP for turnout control and whilst I could wire up a control panel this way I can just name them on the ACE-2 and just have a visual reference for it - less wiring and less to go wrong.

 

The one thing I don't like about the powercab is the fact that its hard to remember which functions you have activated without multiple button presses - so quite like the idea of the touch screen as that is one part of JMRI layout control I do like the ability to visually see quickly what functions have been activated.

 

Also the powercab does struggle with some DCC chips - it didn't register a Digitrax DN136D yet Decoder Pro using the powercab did - loco hadn't moved on the programming track and was brand new only run in so no issues with dirty wheels or dirty track as cleaned prior to programming. Had it for a few years now and always wanted to upgrade to a touch screen system and this seems to be the cheapest solution for what I desire - add the fact that its the 5 amp system I have gone for it represents amazing value compared to upgrading the powercab - so now future proof for when I extend the layout. Paying over £100 for a power booster seems ridiculous to me, when for £200 I can buy this and then sell the NCE and gain some of my money back.

Edited March 24, 2017 by spice1977

[traction]

Heads up for those that have the ACE and not aware!

 

There is new firmware available V3.20 which adds some great features to the function operation.

Can select momentary or latching for the function operation and there are presets so if you have a number of locos with the same sounds on the same function numbers you can assign those locos to a preset.

 

Very impressive, you will need the USB interface or send the unit back for upgrading.

 

Link to manual and the V3.20 supplement:-

 

https://www.signatrak.co.uk/products/ace-dcc-controller-accessories/dcs2044-ace-15#product-documentation

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Ron Ron Ron]

Ian, I saw and had a demo of the new Ace 2 at Ally Pally.

The system continues to improve with new features and they are working through a list of extra functionality and features that they plan to add over the next year or so.

I won't repeat what I was told, as I might be speaking out of term, or might get the exact details wrong.

[Mike Storey]

Ian, I saw and had a demo of the new Ace 2 at Ally Pally.

The system continues to improve with new features and they are working through a list of extra functionality and features that they plan to add over the next year or so.

I won't repeat what I was told, as I might be speaking out of term, or might get the exact details wrong.

 

Let's hope SignTrak Tony reveals all on here in due course!

[amdaley]

Surprised that no ones done a YouTube video on the Ace.

At least I couldn't find one ?

[richard brown]

Surprised that no ones done a YouTube video on the Ace.

At least I couldn't find one ?

When I get one I will be doing some videos. I am waiting for a modules to be released before I will get one.

[amdaley]

When I get one I will be doing some videos. I am waiting for a modules to be released before I will get one.

 

Look forward to the videos.

Its always better to hear of someone's personal experience of a product.

The Ace looks to be a very interesting piece of kit.

[mezzoman253]

All gone quiet for 3+ months, last website update 28/04/2017.

 

Any updates or videos please?

 

Rob

[spice1977]

I started out in DCC with a Hornby Select, moving upto the e-link and then NCE Powercab. I have taken the plunge and ordered and ACE-2. Currently using the Powercab with the USB module, auto switch and protection circuitry. I don't particularly like using JMRI for layout control so I only use the Decoder Pro part of it to back up my locos - so that development would interest me a lot. Like the idea of being able to name the accessories and functions - although wont use it for the functions as too many different types of sound chip installed and don't wish to remap the whole lot! I use DCC Concepts Digital IP for turnout control and whilst I could wire up a control panel this way I can just name them on the ACE-2 and just have a visual reference for it - less wiring and less to go wrong.

 

The one thing I don't like about the powercab is the fact that its hard to remember which functions you have activated without multiple button presses - so quite like the idea of the touch screen as that is one part of JMRI layout control I do like the ability to visually see quickly what functions have been activated.

 

Also the powercab does struggle with some DCC chips - it didn't register a Digitrax DN136D yet Decoder Pro using the powercab did - loco hadn't moved on the programming track and was brand new only run in so no issues with dirty wheels or dirty track as cleaned prior to programming. Had it for a few years now and always wanted to upgrade to a touch screen system and this seems to be the cheapest solution for what I desire - add the fact that its the 5 amp system I have gone for it represents amazing value compared to upgrading the powercab - so now future proof for when I extend the layout. Paying over £100 for a power booster seems ridiculous to me, when for £200 I can buy this and then sell the NCE and gain some of my money back.

 

Well I finally got around to disconnecting the powercab and replacing it with the ACE. I am very impressed with it to put it bluntly! I really like the fact you can have multiple setups for different sound decoders so all have names on the buttons and the fact you can add the loco description too. I find it extremely simple to use and I am really glad I went with it! Now to just add the ability to communicate with JMRI to make it even easier to program locos and tweek CV's!

[amdaley]

There is a YouTube video here for anyone who might be interested.