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Norwood Road





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#1 St. Simon

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 15:32

Norwood Road Sign.jpg

 

By SJPModels.jpg

 

Hi,

 

This is the continuation thread from Pete75C West Croydon Layout that I've now taken over from, which you can see here: http://www.rmweb.co....work-southeast/

 

As I said on his thread, I will be continuing with Pete's Plan to model the area around West Croydon Turnback Siding / Roman Way Flyover, although due to my interests being privatisation operations, then the timescale will be brought forward to the present day, although this will probably end up ranging from Network South East to the current Southern / London Overground operations. But BR Blue might possibly be seen from time to time.

 

Even though the layout is modelled on West Croydon, there will be some changes to what is there, so I've decided to give the layout a different name, Norwood Road, this was chosen as its actually the name of the road I live on and as there are several station names in the area with 'Norwood' in the title, it isn't too far out!

 

Since picking the layout up last Saturday, its been set up at the High Wycombe & District Model Railway Society Clubrooms to carry out some work on it before I will be packing it up to take to my home in Reading.

 

The main thing that has been physically one to the layout is the installation of the remaining road / embankment to the front of the layout:

 

IMG_0971.JPG

 

Sorry about the poor quality of the photo, it was taken on my phone just as the glue was drying, I hope to start putting the wall on the retaining wall tomorrow evening or Tuesday. As you can also see, the Tram Line is being marked out / positioned, this needs to be down before I can start building up the town scene. 

 

There has been more done, but this is of a design nature, I haven't quite got a design for the scenics yet, so I can't provide you with a full plan, however I have spent time designing the signalling plan:

 

Norwood Road Scheme Plan.jpg

 

The layout will be fully and prototypically signaled (well it has to be considering my job!), using a model version of SSI Interlocking using an Arduino microprocessor, it'll use Infra-red / light sensor train detection and point detection from the Micro-drives to interlock everything together. As part of this, I'll create a traditional NX Panel to control the layout from:

 

Panel.jpg

 

At the moment, this will be a longer term project, getting the layout ready for exhibiting is the priority.

 

Other than that, I can't tell you a lot more, I have some of my 3D Printed Details coming, as well as a couple of signals. Hopefully more updates tomorrow when I can get more materials!

 

Any Questions, Please ask!

 

Simon 


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#2 Pete 75C

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 16:07

Wow. You really have got plans for the layout, haven't you??? Love the signalling design and the eventual control panel - that's an aspect of modelling that I could only dream of, so I now know it's in good hands for sure! Best of luck with the project, Simon.


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#3 Removed a/c

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 16:24

Look forward to watching this develop. 

 

 

 

 

Regards 

Scott 


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#4 St. Simon

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 16:44

Wow. You really have got plans for the layout, haven't you??? Love the signalling design and the eventual control panel - that's an aspect of modelling that I could only dream of, so I now know it's in good hands for sure! Best of luck with the project, Simon.

 

Thanks Pete, the panel is going to be a longer term thing, I need to find somewhere to laser cut it all, for the moment, I'm going to get the signalling in and interlocked, while using a simple single button panel to set the routes, once I've got that done, I'll start getting the panel done properly.

 

Regards,

 

Simon


Edited by St. Simon, 23 August 2015 - 16:53 .

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#5 St. Simon

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 19:44

Hi,

 

Well, the plan to follow what Pete was going to do has lasted all of a week!

 

I went up to start work on the Tram Line and flyover on Monday, however, after mocking it up, I've decided that with the flyover, the Tram Line would dominate the whole layout and you wouldn't focus on the railway, so I've decided not to construct it.

 

Instead, I'll leave the Tram line on the level and terminate it at a tram stop serving a 'new development' next to the line. This also has the added advantage of taking the layout a little away from West Croydon, so I can run my stock which isn't normally seen around the area (FGW 150, Turbos etc).

 

In better news, the Tram line around the town end of the layout is down and had droppers installed, so I can start building up the town scene. I intend on running the Tram line on a shuttle unit, but for the moment it'll be static, once I have found a suitable Modern Tram for the right price in 'HO' or 'OO' I'll make it working. If you have knowledge of a suitable tram. please contact me!

 

In other news, two of the signals have arrived from CR Signals, I just have to confirm a couple of things before ordering the other two! I also got the brick sheet for the embankment cut, I now just have to blend the colours into Pete original colour before sticking them onto the wall.

 

Tomorrow I will do some more work on the layout to get the signals in and a couple of other things, I'll bring you some more photos! Then nothing will happen until Friday as I'm needed in the Thames Valley Signalling Centre on Thursday!

 

Simon


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#6 Southwich

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 20:33

Looking forward to photos Simon! Glad to see this layout continued. Will


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#7 St. Simon

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 20:20

Hi,

 

Right an update of what has been happening over the past week or so!

 

Firstly, and obviously the most important for me, was the installation of the first two signals, well actually this meant drilling the holes for them, I have yet to fasten them down as I'm not sure on the sighting, I will have to form a committee! ;).

 

IMG_0973.jpg

 

Above is NR004, which will protect 'Orts Road Junction', this will be controlled by the interlocking and Arduino, which requires some work to replace the resistors for it to work off the Arduino's 5v Output. This will also have an Automatic Working Facility, allowing me to set the layout up to just run trains with no intervention for me.

 

IMG_0974.jpg

 

Also 'Installed' was NR003, this one has sighting issues, as it is on a tight bend just after a long straight, so I will have to think about it. This will be an Automatic Signal worked by either a BLOCKsignalling or Heathcote Electronics board, but it will have a replacement facility, allowing the signaller to stop trains out front to add a bit of excitement!.

 

The next order of business was to make the retaining wall opposite to the one that Pete had already installed, this meant trying to match / blend the colour:

 

IMG_0972.jpg

 

IMG_0975.jpg

 

I apologise to Pete that it is not the exact same colour, but if I'm honest, as it is on the other side to the public, then I'm not worried about it, and it's not far off, once I've finished doing the whole wall (including all the street level walls and the verticals to disguise the joins between sheets), I'll weather it down to bring it a bit darker and closer to Pete's colour.

 

That's all I did until Friday as I was distracted by this on Thursday:

 

IMG_0980.jpg

 

(The Slough Workstation at the Thames Valley Signalling Centre)

 

Although I say I did nothing on Thursday, I did almost finish the Road Overbridge carrying 'Norwood Road' over the railway (in reality the Roman Way Flyover):

 

IMG_0982.jpg

 

I still have to finish off the walls either side of the road. and figure out how to secure it down as well as being able to remove it.

 

You'll also see from the picture above that the Tram Line has been installed, well, most of it has, the last section has to be secured, but I didn't get around to doing it before I had to take it down. But up at the 'station' / 'town' end, progress was made with in filling the track:

 

IMG_0983.jpg

 

IMG_0988.jpg

 

I've infilled it with cork underlay around the sleepers, and thick card onto to butt up to the track, this actually gives a flush surface with the rail head, although due to the curve of the track, I ended up filling up to the edge of the rail using model filler.

 

Unfortunatly, once I had finished painting that section, i'd run out of cork, card and leave, meaning I had to take it all done and transport to my home in Reading, which meant building coffin boards:

 

IMG_0986.jpg

 

That's it for the moment, over the next week I hope to start building houses to populate the rear of the layout and possibly take a research trip over to West Croydon next weekend.

 

Any questions, please ask! :)

 

Simon


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#8 cromptonnut

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 20:34

If you have knowledge of a suitable tram. please contact me!

 

Something like this might work.  http://www.hoedl-lin...E/TRAM/TRAM.HTM

 

I have a couple of the Combino trams in N gauge for my "will make one day" tramlink project.


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#9 St. Simon

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 20:08

Hi,

 

Never fear, Norwood Road isn't on the back burner,it is still going, although unfortunately not at the greatest pace, work puts pay to such things!

 

Although, this evening I have managed to finish filling the Tram line in between the rails, I haven't painted them yet, as all my smaller paint brushes have disappeared, I haven't filled around the track yet, but hopefully over tomorrow evening and the weekend I'll finish it, and possibly get the road markings done as well. I also hope to get the Impedance bonds down.

 

At the moment, I'm only working on the town end board of the layout as that's closest to being complete (i.e. it doesn't have all that much to do to it!), once I have that done, I'll swap it for the other board, although that doesn't require much either.

 

In other news, the Signalling has been finalised, its not that much different to the plan at the start of the thread, but NR001 will have a Standard Route Indicator as well as a position light, it turns out that I have enough room to fit in the Absolute Aspects model I have siting around!

 

Simon


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#10 St. Simon

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 20:36

Hi,

 

Well, I’m afraid I’m not very good at this updating lark nowadays, work, college and exhibitions have taken their toll on me, but no fear I have done some work!

 

First of all I have finished infilling the tramway up to the town, it took a little while to cut the cork / card because of the curved facia and the curved tram track, it also took a while to fill any gaps between the rail / road with filler (mostly because of the wait to allow the filler to dry before sanding it back).

Then I proceeded with painting on the ‘Tarmac’ colour so I could mark out the paved areas and Road Marking, it was only when I started marking out the markings that I realised I had decided to model the most complicated Road Junction in Croydon, this is what it looks like at the moment:

 

DSCF2641.JPG

 

The Road Running from the Back of the Layout to the front will be ‘Station Road’, with the Road running along the edge of the layout will be ‘Orts Road’, while the road bridge at the middle of the layout will be ‘Norwood Road’.

 

All the Road Markings are hand painted using Strips of Tamiya Masking Tape, the Double Yellow Markings are ‘Faded Yellow’ from Humbrol and made using the tape cut into thin strips (I haven’t measured them, they have been sized by eye alone!), these have come out really well I feel. The White markings weren’t so easy, the paint (Humbrol again) was thin, so seeped under the masking tape at some points, so I had to go around and tidy it up again. The ‘Dots’ you can see following the line of the Tramway are made using The layout of Road Markings were taken from a combination of Google Earth / Streetview and the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 5.

 

You can also see that most of the Pavement has been laid down as well, this is the Scale Scenes Pavement, although it has been modified to ensure that I have curved curb stones on the curved sections of Pavement! I’ve still got a little bit to finish off down by the Tramway entrance as well as the central reservation of ‘Station Road’. Once I’ve done that, I’ve got to add fence / wall done the railway retaining wall and the bridge wall over the railway. Finally I need to add a section of the Station Building and then I can get on with detailing the scene.

 

I also have to start thinking about OLE for the Tramway, not to mention a Tram…

 

You can also see that the S&T and E&P Departments have moved in, but if you can’t here’s a close up of the works so far.

 

DSCF2648.JPG

 

I’ve managed to install the necessary Impedance Bonds on this board. They are the black boxes in the four foot with Aluminium Strips leading from them.  The Bonds are my own 3D Printed design, while the ‘Aluminium’ Strips are lengths of plasticard painted with Revell Aqua Colour ‘Aluminium’, funnily enough!

 

DSCF2651.JPG

 

Impedance Bonds are used in DC Traction Areas. In Electrified areas, the Return Traction Current is sent back through one of the running rails, now obviously, this requires a continuous path to get back to the substation, but to provide adequate Train Detection, the rails have to be split into sections, now on the face of it, we can’t do both of these things together, but that’s where the impedance bond comes in. In DC Traction Areas, both Rails are split at the limits of each track circuit, but to carry the DC Return Current around the joint, a cable is connected to one rail either side of the joint, this ensures that the DC Current will pass over the joint, but it will also allow the AC Track Circuit Supply to Pass around the joint, effectively joining two sections together (AC Supplies are used for Track Circuits as the Relays operate by AC supply won’t be operated by the DC Current). To prevent the Track Circuits ‘mixing’ an impedance bond is inserted into the cable, these are basically a large copper coil immersed in a bath of oil, and provide a high ‘impedance’ to AC Electrical Supplies, while allowing DC Electrical Supplies to pass unhindered, so it stops the AC Supply from passing around the joint, but allows the DC Supply to go around the joint.

 

Now a word on positioning, where two plain line track circuits (i.e. no points in either track circuit), a bond is position either side of the rail joint with the aluminium plate spanning the two, simples. If a Plain Line Track Circuit needs with a track circuit which has S&C (Switches & Crossings, Points) in it, then a single bond is located on the side of the track circuit without the S&C in it, with the plate leading from it into the other track circuit. I attach a drawing provided by Phil-b259, a fellow RMWebber and Colleague in Maintenance, I hope he doesn’t mind me using it here:

 

11168119_10205657207763453_2111246867158925210_n.jpg

 

All the Track Circuits on town board have S&C in them, or butt up to a track circuit with S&C, so I only require four bonds. They are placed as they would be in real life, although you have to imagine the IRJ’s! The ‘Joints’ have been imagined at being 10m from the Toes of the Switch, a standard measurement these days, the bonds being placed a couple of sleepers further away. You’ll also notice that ‘NR001’ has appeared on the layout, for the moment this is purely to mark up the installation hole, it isn’t fixed yet. The signal is also positioned as prototypically as possible, being 15 metres from the toes of the points, the signal being positioned 5m from the Track Circuit Joint, this acting as the Replacement Joint for the signal. 15m is really as close as you’ll get in real life between a point and signal, although we try to place them much further away (up to 800 metres).

As mentioned the E&P department have moved in to installed the Point Heating Equipment, although all that can be seen on the layout are the Point Heating Transformers, again 3D Printed to my own design.

 

DSCF2649.JPG

 

That’s it in terms of exciting stuff, I have been working on the Flow Charts and Wiring Diagrams for the Signalling, but it’s not that exciting to show, so I won’t J

 

I’m also working on a Illuminated (but Stationary) Banner Repeater to replicate ‘T30BR’ at the town end just before the bridge, again 3D Printed, so watch my thread for that!

 

As always, any questions, please Ask!

 

Simon


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#11 coline33

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 18:05

Simon, how about a tram like those Tramlink cars John Clarke built for "West Croydon" view of his Stadler is attached.   Alphagraphix produces a 4mm. card kit for the Bombardier CR4000 car in the original red livery if you wanted a car for the 2000 - 2006 period.   For anyone interested, I also attach a view of the fleet of first generation trams, that I selected from my own London Transport fleet, to go through overhaul before going into service last July on "West Croydon" at the Festival of Model Tramways at Fairfield Halls, Croydon.   Numbering rows from left to right, the cars in row 1 were for services 4 and 5. row 2 for service 7, rows 3/4/5 for 16/18, row 6 for 30. row 7 for 42, row 8 works cars and trial Feltham and row 9 a reserve of four-wheelers (which were not needed!). Colin.

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  • Stadler tamworth road side a 2.11.2014.jpg
  • LT serviceable 7.7.2015 a.jpg

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#12 coline33

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 17:51

Thanks for the appreciation of the two views of "West Croydon".   I trust the following whets the appetite further!   Colin.

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  • station 3a.jpg
  • tight squeeze a.jpg
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#13 St. Simon

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 20:37

Hi,

For those that maybe interested, I've found a pair of drivers eye views through the West Croydon Area, in the up direction (10:30 to 11:40):



Down direction (30:00 to 32:40):



This weekend I'll be looking at several projects, the Banner Repeater, Tramway Caternary and Signalling as well as starting to construct the control panel.

Simon
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#14 coline33

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:33

Thanks again in the interest in the views of "West Croydon", so just a final one to let Simon get on with his catenary.   This is how I remember West Croydon as a nipper on a Saturday afternoon with the 16/18 every 3/4 minutes plus the 16x/18x extras and the 42s in between.   Alas the replacing buses were to loose most of the former tram passengers, as my family knew so well, and by 1957 it took London Transport to final realise this.   Look forward to reading of your progress Simon.   Kind regards, Colin.

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#15 Pete 75C

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:46

Crack on Simon. I'd have had it finished by now... :derisive:  Don't let a little thing like work get in the way of progress!


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#16 St. Simon

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 20:51

Crack on Simon. I'd have had it finished by now... :derisive:  Don't let a little thing like work get in the way of progress!

 

Hi,

 

I know I know, I'm slacking! :P There will be progress soon, I promise! :)

 

Simon


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#17 St. Simon

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 22:28

Hi,

Just a small update on the weekends work, I've got on and create a lot of the heavy chain link fence that runs on the inclined road where the tram line runs, using plasticard and an aluminium mesh. I've still got some more to build, but I've run out of the appropriate plasticard and seen as my nearest model show is Alton, I'm going to wait until Warley to get some more supplies.

The S&T department have been in again and installed some TPWS Loops, while Civils have installed some catch pits. The Council have also built the wall above the fiddle yard entrance and installed some central reservation fencing on Station Road.

I've also designed T30BR for printing:

image.png

I've get this ordered sometime this week, this won't be driven off the interlocking obviously, but will be illuminated and I have some ideas for other lit equipment.

In other news, I've finished detailed design for the signalling circuits, I'm going to order the parts for the control panel and signalling circuits this week, while by the end of the week, the logic should be firmed up.

Sorry, but no pictures tonight, the board is a bit of a messy, so I'll clean it up tomorrow and take some photos for you :)

Simon

P.S. See Pete, progress :P
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#18 St. Simon

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 20:40

Hi,

Photos as promised, the new fencing / wall:

image.jpeg

There are gaps in the fencing, this is where the gradient of the road changes, so I just need to create some specially shaped infill pieces, I'll disguise the gap between the fence and wall with a steel beam or something :)

The TPWS Loops (fitted to the down main, on the left next to the signal, forming the Train Stop System) and the Catch puts are the blue grids on the right.

image.jpeg

Having talked to Phil Parker and looking on google street view, I have decided to scratch build the Tramway Caternary, the sommerfelt stuff isn't suitable, and I don't think I would get the right result with 3D Printing, so I'm going to use Brass 'H-Section', tube and wire to make the masts, while I'm going to dispense with convention on the contact wire, I'm going to use a thick elastic thread superglued to the resgister arm, this will hopefully give the contact wire some 'give' if someone touches the wires at a show, seen as the tramway is right at the front of the layout.

Any questions, please ask!

Simon
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#19 class"66"

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 20:43

Looks realy good,with plenty of detail.. :paint: :senile:

 

 

 

cheers neil..


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#20 class"66"

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 20:56

Im following this now Simon :senile:

 

 

thanks neil.


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#21 coline33

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:23

Yes, Simon, John Clarke found when constructing "West Croydon" that Tramlink's masts and catenary could only be effectively made by scatchbuilding - see top photo of post 12 above taken at the West Croydon stop.   Even the first generation overhead is cosmetic and the poles would have had to be replaced if I had gone ahead with installing working overhead.   I have all the parts for this and for Tramlink I too would have used brass H-section for the masts.   Alas I do not now see this change taking place.   So look forward to seeing your handy work.    Colin.


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#22 St. Simon

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 21:29

Hi,

 

A little update.

 

On Wednesday Evening I ordered the parts to start constructing the Control Panel for the layout:

 

12239502_978890645486313_3316748615469841646_n.jpg

 

I spent today at the Club (The High Wycombe & District Model Railway Society) in their workshop during their open day and drilled most of the holes that are required. Before I can begin to paint the aluminium panels, I have to open out the holes for the route setting buttons, although these won't come until next week. I also need to get some more LED's, mainly, Common Negative Bi-Colour Red / White LED's for the Track Circuit Indications, however, I can't find these exact type that easily, so if you know, please get in touch!

 

So at the moment, the only LED's that are in place purely for the photo are the 3mm White only Route LED and the 3mm Red only Berth Track Circuit LED's for NR001 / NR004. Also seen are the two individual Point Rotary Switches, the reset push button for the TRTS plunger on the turnback siding and the turnback train describer.

 

I still have the two train describers for the Up and Down Main to cut holes for, I'll do that on Monday at the club.

 

The Panel will not be connected directly to the layout, it will have inputs into the interlocking and will display outputs from the interlocking. To this end, I spent some of my time at college on Thursday writing and testing a ladder logic programme to test the logic needed for my micro-processor based interlocking and I'm very pleased to say it works as intended! :)

 

This panel and processor interlocking is part of a college project, so for the moment, I'm only programming two routes, the two routes from NR001, and its as prototypical as you can get with the limitations of a model railway and the processor I have, but it will be very prototypical. If you want to know more,please ask, but when I get to a stage where I can show something interesting, I'll write another thread on it.

 

In other news, I'm going to start on the houses along the back of the layout this week!

 

Simon

 

 


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#23 Pete 75C

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 06:49

Simon, I have absolutely no idea what any of those words mean, but the control panel looks good.


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#24 David Todd

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 08:26

I do like the technical content description and the breakdown of each component involved in 3rd rail track circuit,s.
I have my thought's , to what a "train describer" is, but,
feel free to describe it please.

#25 malcolmrhine

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:04

You could use tri-colour led's and just wire them up as bi colour.









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