1951 Pullman Scratchbuild in 1/32

[PhilMortimer]

I have the same problem - i.e. exiled to North America (i'm in the Baltimore area) and finding readily available paints for suitable British railway colours. It would be interesting to see what people have come up with. I did recently find a source of Humbrol enamels, but the shop has now closed down. Modelling acylics and I do not get on, despite repeated attemptes to master them!

[Spitfire2865]

I have the same problem - i.e. exiled to North America (i'm in the Baltimore area) and finding readily available paints for suitable British railway colours. It would be interesting to see what people have come up with. I did recently find a source of Humbrol enamels, but the shop has now closed down. Modelling acylics and I do not get on, despite repeated attemptes to master them!

Since I primarily build goods stock, a mix of greys across the board is a good start. But how I go about paint colors, the Railways mixed their paints by hand with crude measurments in huge batches.  If I cant get a near enough color, they couldnt either.  Their paint varied day by day, and discolored with age.  Near enough is prototypical!  Unless like Hendie here, youre going for a specific example in a specific condition. 

[hendie]

Id avoid Michaels like the plague.  My local one only ever stocked Testors paints and sprays, and in the past few years they have taken them all out of the locked cabinet they were in.  Can you guess what the rack and product looks like now?  Michaels more often than not has no respect for their own products and will let things be destroyed beyond sellable quality.  

 

I'd have to agree.  My local Michaels has about 30 colors total. Most of those are shades of red, grey, black and white with a whole bunch of metallics.  I think they are aimed at the model car market more than anything.

 

 

I have the same problem - i.e. exiled to North America (i'm in the Baltimore area) and finding readily available paints for suitable British railway colours. It would be interesting to see what people have come up with. I did recently find a source of Humbrol enamels, but the shop has now closed down. Modelling acylics and I do not get on, despite repeated attemptes to master them!

 

I've had good luck with the Model Master range of acrylics using IPA as a thinner with a few drops of flow enhancer.  You do have to watch for tip drying though.

 

 

Since I primarily build goods stock, a mix of greys across the board is a good start. But how I go about paint colors, the Railways mixed their paints by hand with crude measurments in huge batches.  If I cant get a near enough color, they couldnt either.  Their paint varied day by day, and discolored with age.  Near enough is prototypical!  Unless like Hendie here, youre going for a specific example in a specific condition. 

 

Hence my problem.  Looking at many photo's, it's obvious that Pullmans came in a range of Umbers, and the Cream can vary too, but not as much it seems.  

My best bet is to take a drive - I think there's a model shop up in PA which specializes in trains - in the hope that they have a decent range of colors that I can select from.

It's about an hours drive or so, but it's probably a better option than trying to buy paint over the internet only to find it's the wrong shade.

[PhilMortimer]

 

I think there's a model shop up in PA which specializes in trains - in the hope that they have a decent range of colors that I can select from.

It's about an hours drive or so, but it's probably a better option than trying to buy paint over the internet only to find it's the wrong shade.

 

 

Interesting - which store would that be? I live 20 mins from the PA line, so could be a useful stock.

 

Thanks for the tip on the IPA + Acrylics. I've tried it but still don't get on with acrylics!

Edited January 16, 2018 by PhilMortimer

[hendie]

 

I think there's a model shop up in PA which specializes in trains - in the hope that they have a decent range of colors that I can select from.

It's about an hours drive or so, but it's probably a better option than trying to buy paint over the internet only to find it's the wrong shade.

 

 

Interesting - which store would that be? I live 20 mins from the PA line, so could be a useful stock.

 

Thanks for the tip on the IPA + Acrylics. I've tried it but still don't get on with acrylics!

 

 

I think it was Nicholas Smith Trains.  It's been a few years since I was there so I'll check with a buddy to make sure it was that store I'm thinking of.

Downstairs was general models and toys, but upstairs was dedicated to trains only - there was  LOT of stock

 

http://www.nicholassmithtrains.com/store/

[PhilMortimer]

I will have to check that out - not too far away.

 

Many Thanks,

 

PM

[richard i]

i was thinking you mean trains and lanes up in Easton on the NJ boarder. It has paints but i would not say its selection was extensive for colours suitable to model trains.

[richard i]

Found the paints. The combination of these as primer and top coat worked well together.

Three smoothly coated coaches.

If it is of any help.

Richard

[hendie]

No I haven't forgotten you guys - I've been busy in the background doing things that are not very photo worthy... painting, sanding, filling, painting etc.  The side frames are progressing but nothing worth photographing quite yet.

 

However, I do have one update which I think some of you will find interesting - Photo Etch.  A few of you seemed to like my previous post where I produced some home brew photo etch so I thought I would give a step by step guide to show folks that it's really not that hard.

 

There's a few pieces of equipment that you need - but nothing fancy, and nothing expensive!  All off the shelf stuff.  I got all my equipment from either Amazon or Ebay at very reasonable prices.  I'll list everything you'll need at the end for convenience.

 

I'll also apologize in advance for the quality of the photographs - I do this in my kitchen which has granite work tops - very dark, so photographing things is a bit if a challenge at times.

 

So let's start.  Let's assume artwork is all sorted and you have cut your brass to the appropriate size.

I begin by cleaning the brass.  For this I use 400 grit wet and dry with 70% IPA. I also wear some medical latex gloves so the oils from my skin don't contaminate the brass - it (the brass) has to be scrupulously clean for this to work.  Try to avoid touching it except by the edges once you have cleaned it.

 

I keep and old toffee tray for doing this in to try and keep the mess to a minimum (often not very successfully!) - I keep going until I have removed all the shininess from the brass.

 

Once the brass is cleaned and degreased I run it under the tap to ensure all grit and other greeblies are washed off.  Then it's time to apply the photo-resist.

The first few times I tried this I made a real hash of the photo-resist until I had developed a technique that worked for me.

I place the brass on top of a piece of kitchen roll, then apply the photo-resist.  The resist has a protective covering on both sides - you need to remove one side at this stage.

I use two pieces of sellotape to pull the protective layer off - you can just see it in this photo if you squint hard enough.  Keep the blue side and discard the clear side - but remember which side of the resists it came off! - This is the side that goes directly against the brass.

 

 

To apply the resist, I pour a small amount of water onto the brass - try not to put too much, it's all got to come off again.  Gently lower the resist onto the water and the water will 'grab' the resist.  Now using your finger, gently wipe the resist onto the brass squeezing out the water as you go.  Don't worry too much about getting all the water out at this stage... just try to get the resist down without any wrinkles.

One of the reasons I use a piece of kitchen towel is that it helps suck the water away as the water reaches the edge of the brass.

 

 

If the resist has gone down nicely you should have something resembling this...

 

Now I take a folded up piece of kitchen towel and gently start rubbing in circles expanding as I go to bed the resist down onto the brass. Once I've done that a couple of times I start pressing harder and harder to really get that resist in contact with the brass.

I use a piece of kitchen towel for this because I found that my finger alone would stretch the resist quite easily. As long as the kitchen towel is dry it will glide easily over the resist making the bedding down process much easier (even with a fair bit of pressure applied).

 

 

Okay - one side done!

Once I'm happy the resist is bedded down, I trim off the excess. The first few times I attempted this I did not trim off the excess and what happened was that the resist on each side trapped water making it impossible to remove completely.  Trimming the resist up to the brass makes it much easier to squeeze that last drop of water out.

Now repeat the process for the other side of the brass

 

 

Now both sides are done.  My next step is to place the brass on a dry sheet of kitchen towel and once again repeat the rubbing process - better safe than sorry!

Now while I've been applying the resist, I have fired up the el cheapo laminator to get it warmed up.

The brass is then placed between a folded piece of paper to put through the laminator.

 

 

I wait until my 'ready' light comes on and then start feeding the paper through.  I never start mid cycle (if the ready light has been on for a while)

As the laminator turns off and on to keep at temperature, I found that starting the feed when the light comes on gives me enough time to make two passes through the machine.

Two passes is important - it bonds the photo-resist onto the brass. Oh, I use the 5 mil setting.

 

 

Here's one that didn't go so well.  Everything looked fine going into the laminator but when I opened the paper up afterwards, I found that a few wrinkles had appeared.

There's no point in continuing with this, so I stripped it all back and started again.

 

 

So, hopefully you have avoided issues like that and your brass looks fine and dandy.

Now the brass is ready for the next stage - getting the artwork applied.

So, you have made your artwork, and made a mirror image... and sorted out where you want to keep metal and where you want to remove metal.

I use crosshairs printed in zero line width (very fine) to help with my alignment.  Again, very important - if front and backdon't align, the end result won't be as crisp and well defined as it should be

The two pieces of artwork and then taped together back to back

 

 

I can then slide the brass in between the two layers of artwork.  I also use a small piece of tape to stick the brass to one side of the artwork.  There's nothing worse than getting to this stage and then having the artwork slip as you are exposing it to the UV light. (don't ask!)

So, the brass is secured between the artwork... I now sandwich the whole lot between two sheets of glass (I bought some cheapo picture frames just to get the glass sheets)

That is all clamped together so nothing moves.

The black you see in the glass is a piece of 400 grit wet and dry that I have taped to the rear of the glass - this is to prevent UV light from bouncing off the bottom and producing 'fuzzy' prints.

 

 

Artwork all secured, it is placed in my off the shelf Nail UV lamp.  It comes with 4x UV lamps inside but I removed two so the light is only directed from immediately above the artwork - and I have two spare lamps!)

I expose this to the UV light for about 45 seconds - same on both sides!!! Important!  I have gone up to about 55 seconds but found 45 seconds seems to work best (for me)

 

 

Switch the lamp off pronto at the 45 seconds mark, flip the artwork over (,- here's where the artwork can slip - and why I use tape!), clamp it up again and repeat the UV exposure for the other side.

Now that you have exposed the brass/photo-resist to the UV light you can take it all apart.  You can see that where there was ink on the artwork, there is now 'brass' showing through and where there was no ink - it's all turned blue.  The blue is where the photo-resist has hardened up and will protect the brass from being etched.

 

 

Remember I said there were two protective layers on the photo-resist?  Well, now's the time to remove the second layer. A small piece of tape at one corner will help you remove it.

 

 

All done and we're just about ready to begin the alchemy part.... (I remain to be amazed at the amount of detail that can be captured)

 

 

Alchemy ! ahhhhh.

Now we have to remove the 'uncured' photo-resist.  i.e. Where we want the etchant to actually eat way the brass.

For this part I use a 5% solution of Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda).... So here's where I have to provide you with a warning. I know you are all grown-ups but just in case.. THESE CHEMICALS CAN BE DANGEROUS if they are not handled with caution!  Please use common sense and all appropriate safety measures.

 

Anyways... a 5% solution of Sodium Hydroxide.  I dip the fret into the solution and agitate for it for approximately 10 seconds.  The first time I did this I left it in for much longer and it ate ALL the photo-resist away and I had to start all over again!

 

 

At the end of ten seconds (I just count in my head - no timer) I remove the fret and start working over the surface with a stiff paintbrush - one of the usual ones we all use, nothing fancy.  At the same time I'll be holding it under a cold running tap to wash away the resist.

You should see a bluish mush start to gather as you are working the surface and then see it start to wash off.  Keep going until you have clean brass showing.  If need be I'll dip the fret back into the developer solution for another few seconds and keep working it with the brush.

Eventually you should end up with something approaching this.

 

 

Now you can get to the real exciting part... etching the darned thing!.  After all, this is what we came here for wasn't it?

For the etchant, I use a 20% solution of Sodium Persulphate.  Mix up enough to make sure your fret is going to be well covered.

I use scrap plastic to make a couple of stand-offs to prevent the fret from sitting against the bottom of the container.  You want to make sure the etchant gets to every part of the fret.

 

 

Now you can sit back and relax.. sort of that is.   Keep an eye on things as a fresh solution can eat through the brass pretty quickly. With older solutions I found the process can take up to a couple of hours.  I always try and keep agitating the solution every 10 minutes or so.

Today I used fresh solution and this is where we're at after less than half an hour - so keep watching!

 

 

Another 20 minutes or so and it was ready to take out of the etchant solution.

 

So now, how do you get rid of the hardened blue photo-resist ?  Easy, just dunk the whole fret into a small tub of Acetone for a while and it will all start to come off.  I use the stiff brush again to help things along sometimes - depending upon how delicate the fret is.

 

So, what did the fret look like after all that I hear you ask ?  Well, here it is.

 

Well, that's way better than anything I could ever produce by purely manual means.  I'm completely blown away by the detail that's been captured on the door escutcheon plates.

The window frames have turned out great too - I just hope they fit!

 

Be warned though... things don't always go according to plan.  Here's a fret I tried last evening - unfortunately I was rushing things, and I didn't completely remove all the uncured photo-resist.  My fault entirely.

 

There's now a repeat of that fret going through the process as I type - hopefully this time I'll get it right.  (If you are wondering what on earth that fret is all about - I'll explain later)

 

 

Okay, so that was the process. Nothing earth shattering was there?  All straightforward stuff, and if you follow the process you should be able to produce brass frets just as sharp as this.

 

So what do you need ? Okay... here we go.

 

For producing my artwork I use Draftsight - legally free CAD software. Of course, use what you feel comfy with.

 

Equipment:

Laminator

UV Lamp (I use a 36 Watt lamp with two bulbs removed)

Micro scale (for weighing chemicals to get the right concentrations)

Borosilicate measuring jars (around 250 mL is a good size)

2 x sheets of glass

Clamps

Plastic tubs for the different solutions

Scissors (I keep a pair just for cutting brass sheet)

Plastic tweezers

 

 

Supplies:

Wet & dry 400 grit

Brass sheet 0.005" thick

Photo-resist film

Inkjet transparency film (for printing the artwork) - note the quality of the film will have a direct impact on the quality of your final artwork. Don't skimp!

Sodium Persulphate.  Use as 20% Solution

Sodium Hydroxide.  Use as 5% Solution

Acetone

IPA 70%

 

 

If I've missed anything let me know and I'll add it to this list.

I would add links to the different items but since I am based in the USA, the links wouldn't be much use to you. Feel free to ask any questions though.

Edited September 10, 2018 by hendie

[hendie]

well, still not perfect, but good enough for government work methinks

 

Capturing the detail on the archer was always a worry of mine, but even the bow came out much better than expected .  Very pleased I am.

Edited February 3, 2018 by hendie

[natterjack]

Do you use distilled water? I know our tap water can leave deposits.

[hendie]

Do you use distilled water? I know our tap water can leave deposits.

 

Straight from the tap here - We get our water from a well in the garden so I have some fancy filtration system in place to remove all the nasties.

[natterjack]

Sounds like you have a pretty well pure supply- thanks for a very informative post.

[hendie]

Once again just a small update.

I'm still working way on those side frames trying to get a decent paint finish and I think I am almost there.  However, building on my last posts where I made some home brew photo etch - this is what I am trying to replicate... this artwork hung behind the bar for many years until it disappeared.   Thankfully, it turned up again in time to be reinstated when Pegasus went back on the tracks.

 

 

And this is my attempt at reproducing the same artwork.  I am very happy with the quality of the photo etch - nice and crisp with some good definition.  (this is all just dry fitted at the moment).

 

 

The archer is still a bit 'flat' but I am hoping with some shading and general paint slopping around that I can make it a bit more like the original.  Overall, very pleased though as I was a bit worried earlier in the project that I would be struggling to get anything decent to use as the artwork - I really didn't want to go down the path of a 2D photo.

So far, I'm calling this a success

[hendie]

A relatively easy day today - working on the artwork still.

 

I used a couple of shades of Alclad aluminum for all the brass - the background (sea) was just mixed up from green, blue and white.  Then everything was glued on the background - This was a bit nerve-wracking as the Eiffel Tower  would have looked a bit iffy had it not been vertical, and the archer's arrow had to land on the black dot that is Paris.

The Eiffel Tower was given a light wash of Alclad titanium gold, just to provide a little bit of differentiation from the background. and the archer was dabbed with testors silver and a few pencil marks.  All in all, a bit ugly but I never claimed to be an artist.

 

A frame was knocked up from basswood - a bit rustic looking here though.  I also noticed that the artwork has been protected by glass in its new home, so I grabbed some scrap clear packaging and cut a new screen.

 

 

Once that was all put together and trimmed down, it doesn't look quite so rustic anymore.  It actually looks quite passable considering how you will be able to view it in the final article. (i.e.  with some difficulty!)

 

 

The current incarnation also has 'TRIANON BAR' proudly emblazoned on the top of the frame, the letters being individual brass characters.  I think it would be nigh on impossible to create that with photo etch - getting the spacing right and getting all the characters upright etc... so I think I'll cheat a little and use something like this test piece.

 

 

I'm hoping to be able to color the entire piece of brass then lightly micro mesh over the surface to (hopefully) just remove the paint from the raised lettering - we'll see how that goes in a future episode.

Edited September 10, 2018 by hendie

[stevejjjexcov]

Not been on for a while. Just to say how impressed I am with the dedication and skill you show. I will try and keep up with your progress now I'm back.

I had trouble with both enamel and acrylic paint when I sprayed on top of alclad primer and never found an answer, just stopped using alcad primer except for their metalics

 

Look forward to seeing progress all the best Steve

[hendie]

Thanks Steve.

 

I've been absent from this forum for far too long but hopefully things have taken a turn for the better.

 

Now this post will probably seem almost insignificant for many folks,  but for me this is a major milestone.  We have color on the side frames. Color that I'm not going to have to take off again! 

It's not perfect by any means but it's a good start. 

 

I have been so afraid of ruining this paint job that I've been actively avoiding it for far too long.  I decided a couple of weeks ago that I MUST tackle this one head on and keep going until I beat it into submission one way or the other.  I reckon part of my problem has been rushing the job, and probably poor preparation.  - and some poor materials.  I don't think I'm ever going to use Humbrol again - I took a look inside my can of enamel thinners to find large chunks of rust floating in it - thanks Humbrol!

 

This time around I made sure I took my time and after some experimentation found a good ratio for my paint mix (with some new thinners).  This time I opted to decant the paint and airbrush it instead of using the rattle can.  It might seem the obvious way to go but I can be remarkably dense at times!

Got a decent spray pressure and all that and also made sure I wasn't going to get called away half way through the job.  Those numbers are all documented so I won't forget them in subsequent sessions.

A few dust particles got on the surface, ( these are too big for my spray booth) but a mild micro mesh should take care of any imperfections and leave it ready for another coat.

 

 

I tried to capture the finish but the camera hasn't picked it up.

 

 

I'm going to let that enamel cure overnight - or should I leave it 48 hours ? before prepping the surface with micro mesh again.

Hopefully another coat will be enough

 

As I said earlier in the post - pretty boring stuff for most folks, but a significant moment for me.

Edited September 10, 2018 by hendie

[Spitfire2865]

Looks good.

[Bucoops]

Looks great

[richard i]

It feels very Jedi. Patience young paduwan. You can not rush the painting.

[KalKat]

When rubbing back paintwork, could I suggest you use wet'n'dry paper (800 - 1200 grit) to prep the surface? Use it on a block wet with a little soap to help clogging.

 

The issue with micromesh and scotchbrite, is that they are not tru grits and nor do they help in getting a flat surface.

 

 

 

Emma

[stevejjjexcov]

Hi Hendi when spraying with enamels I leave well alone for at LEAST 72 hours and like KalKat use superfine wet and dry to flat back.

Even with cellulose and plasticote I will leave for 48 hours, impatients leads to disappointment and lots of bad language (or so I'm told)

All the best and I will follow the thread with interest great work thus far. Steve

[doilum]

When rubbing back paintwork, could I suggest you use wet'n'dry paper (800 - 1200 grit) to prep the surface? Use it on a block wet with a little soap to help clogging.

 

The issue with micromesh and scotchbrite, is that they are not tru grits and nor do they help in getting a flat surface.

 

 

 If available, try and source some 1500, 2000 & 2500 grade wet/dry paper. Add a drop of washing up liquid to the water.

Emma

[doilum]

Sorry Emma, didn't quite get my post in the correct place.

[hendie]

thanks all. It seems patience is one of the key factors at play here.  As it turns out, I will have left it for nearly a week by the time I'll be sanding so it should be cured enough at that point.  If life doesn't get in the way I plan to attack it again this weekend in between getting the cars serviced, getting tires on one car, and going car hunting for another... and dealing with all the other little niceties that life throws at us!