Windsor Road Bridge, Cardiff

[br2975]

 There are signs that the footbridge a bit further west is due for attention.

 NOT......"the black bridge" ?

[John_Miles]

 NOT......"the black bridge" ?

 

The one that goes from Cumnock Street to Adamsdown - is that the Black Bridge?

 

Also there is some work starting alongside the railway bridge that carries the track from Queen Street to Central. If that is to be raised it will take some serious work and presumably a temporary suspension of services.

 

One of those flashy new Hitachi things was in Newport station today.

[John_Miles]

Splott Road bridge has gone but they are working at speed to install its replacement.

[br2975]

The one that goes from Cumnock Street to Adamsdown - is that the Black Bridge?

 

 

 

The very same John

[The Johnster]

Splott Road bridge has gone but they are working at speed to install its replacement.

 

Not quite gone yet, John; I walked over it yesterday!  The bridge is closed to motor traffic but still open to pedestrians and dismounted cyclists on the original pavement on the town, western, side of the road, and it still has the original parapet.  The work is separated from the pavement by a wire fence and you can watch what is going on on the other side of the road; new concrete beams have gone in and there is a clear view along the track towards Beresford Road bridge.  Presumably pedestrian access will be maintained by a temporary footbridge as it was at Beresford Road when they start on the other side, or the new one will be finished enough for it's pavement to be used.  The collapsed church site is invisible from the road with a high wooden fence around it, but from the fire escape on the other side of the railway you can see that new concrete retaining walls have been put in alongside the up main, whether permanent or temporary I could not say.

 

The original intention was, I believe, to do this job in two halves so as to keep one lane of the road open to traffic using single lane traffic light control, but the collapse of the church, once Salvation Army as has been stated but with a more recent history as a second hand furniture shop and derelict and in increasing disrepair for some years now, seems to have put paid to that idea.  

 

The Cardiff Extension Joint Railway bridge over the SWML, to give it it's full title, is, apparently, to remain in situ and the SWML is to be lowered beneath it to accommodate the OHLE.  No, I don't quite understand this either, as it will mean the bank on the main line from that point to East Canal Wharf bridge, already steep, will be made steeper, presumably with an impact on freight train loading.  I would imagine the intention is to do the main and relief lines separately in order to maintain traffic.

 

If you are tall or can stand on a box, a new photographic location has been provided looking towards Pengam from the Beresford Road side of that bridge

Edited September 4, 2017 by The Johnster

[John_Miles]

Not quite gone yet, John; I walked over it yesterday!  The bridge is closed to motor traffic but still open to pedestrians and dismounted cyclists on the original pavement on the town, western, side of the road, and it still has the original parapet.  The work is separated from the pavement by a wire fence and you can watch what is going on on the other side of the road; new concrete beams have gone in and there is a clear view along the track towards Beresford Road bridge.  Presumably pedestrian access will be maintained by a temporary footbridge as it was at Beresford Road when they start on the other side, or the new one will be finished enough for it's pavement to be used.  The collapsed church site is invisible from the road with a high wooden fence around it, but from the fire escape on the other side of the railway you can see that new concrete retaining walls have been put in alongside the up main, whether permanent or temporary I could not say.

 

The original intention was, I believe, to do this job in two halves so as to keep one lane of the road open to traffic using single lane traffic light control, but the collapse of the church, once Salvation Army as has been stated but with a more recent history as a second hand furniture shop and derelict and in increasing disrepair for some years now, seems to have put paid to that idea.  

 

The Cardiff Extension Joint Railway bridge over the SWML, to give it it's full title, is, apparently, to remain in situ and the SWML is to be lowered beneath it to accommodate the OHLE.  No, I don't quite understand this either, as it will mean the bank on the main line from that point to East Canal Wharf bridge, already steep, will be made steeper, presumably with an impact on freight train loading.  I would imagine the intention is to do the main and relief lines separately in order to maintain traffic.

 

If you are tall or can stand on a box, a new photographic location has been provided looking towards Pengam from the Beresford Road side of that bridge

 

Thanks for a really interesting post. I had only seen the bridge from a down train so I didn't see the remaining parapet so your correction is timely. I also like the bit about the Cardiff Extension Joint Railway which I presume is the line to and from Queen Street. The original connection was on the flat into the northern side of the GWR main line. I wonder when the bridge went it. Lowering the track will be tricky because immediately to the west the line crosses the docks feeder on an underbridge so I wonder if this has to be lowered as well?

[The Johnster]

Thanks for a really interesting post. I had only seen the bridge from a down train so I didn't see the remaining parapet so your correction is timely. I also like the bit about the Cardiff Extension Joint Railway which I presume is the line to and from Queen Street. The original connection was on the flat into the northern side of the GWR main line. I wonder when the bridge went it. Lowering the track will be tricky because immediately to the west the line crosses the docks feeder on an underbridge so I wonder if this has to be lowered as well?

 

 

Yes, the CEJ is the connection from the junction with the Queen Street-Bute Road line, the original Taff Vale Main Line (which predated the South Wales Railway by 12 years in 1838) to Cardiff Central.  I am, to my shame, not exactly aware of when the CEJ was built but it was before the grouping AFAIK. The original flat junction between the TVR and WCML trackbed is still visible, just, running alongside the feeder to the north of the SWML.

 

Dropping the trackbed of the SWML here is indeed going to be tricky as the feeder has to be cleared; fortunately not much drop is needed.  The Feeder is used to take excess water from the river Taff in flood, though, and might be a problem if the new, lower, bridge backs that up...

 

Update on Splott Road is that the 'Newport Side' decking is progressing and one can no longer see through to the track beneath, and that the 'Cardiff Side' roadway has been restored to road traffic with single lane working controlled by temporary traffic lights, a reversion to the state of affairs just before the old church collapsed.  A wooden parapet has now been erected on the 'Newport Side', and the view upline is obscured.  Only the 'Cardiff Side' pavement is in use, and the bus route is restored, but has now been renumbered as part of a separate alteration to services from 11 to 61, and runs through to Pentrebane.

[The Johnster]

A full concrete surface now exists on the 'Newport side' of Splott Road bridge.  It looks ready for the road surface to go on, but I do not know what other work may be required before that happens/

[John_Miles]

The up and down relief lines immediately east of central are currently out of use, so it looks like The Johnster's prediction about lowering the line under the bridges is happening.

[The Johnster]

Yes, there were floodlights mounted above the Bute Street road bridge last night when I got the last bus home from an evening's gentle debauchery in town.  As I said earlier, I am unsure of the effect this will have on freight loadings and timings; it's not a long bank but it's a steep one and sticky if you get it wrong, and it's got a signal half way up which must be fun to get away from with a heavy train sometimes, so making it steeper (which it will have to be because the Canal Wharf overbridge cannot be made higher) is bound to make some difference!

[The Johnster]

Splott Road bridge progresses at it's own pace; the Newport side is not finished but a high concrete section parapet similar to the one on Beresford Road bridge has been put on, blocking the previous up line view.  The road surface is still not finished but work continues daily, so every day and in every way it gets Splott Road bridgier and Splott Road bridgier, but not at any great speed.  AFAIK the demolition and removal of the debris of the collapsed Salvation Army church building is complete; difficult to see behind the wooden fence.  Single lane traffic with temporary traffic lights is still in force.

[corneliuslundie]

The GWR and the TVR argued for years about the connection between the two lines east of Cardiff General station.

However, oddly, "The Great Western Railway. Routes, Statutes, Opening dates & Other particulars", published by the GWR in 1926, does not include the Cardiff Extension Joint Railway sp I assume that it much have been authorised as part of a bigger Act of one of the two companies. I'll look through the Colin Chapman papers to see if I can find an opening date.

You have me curious now.

Jonathan

[corneliuslundie]

Raising bridges (or not) is nothing new:

Taff Vale Railway Directors’ Minutes 1852

21 July 1852

Read correspondence with Mr Brunel regarding this Company’s junction with the South Wales Railway for which purpose Mr Brunel wishes the Company’s bridge over the South Wales line to be lifted by 2 ft 6 in.

They didn't agree.

Jonathan

[The Johnster]

Brunel is referring to the Bute Road branch, actually of course the original TVR main line bridge, over the SWR; the CEJ bridge which carries the Queen Street-Central connection just to it's west and at a different angle was not built until much later.  Worth reminding oneself that the TVR had already been in place and operating for 15 years before the South Wales Railway arrived on the scene.

 

It is also worth reflecting on the extent to which modern Cardiff has been shaped and influenced by these railways, both designed by Brunel.  He is rightly associated with Bristol, but Cardiff owes much to him as well, though there is less to see in the form of buildings and bridges.  The modern city centre owes it's layout to the medieval market town, but is constrained by Brunel's railways to the east and south, and to the west by the river Taff, which Brunel was responsible for re-routing (this ended the town's career as a river port, as his SWR bridge west of Central station is too low for seagoing vessels).

Edited November 16, 2017 by The Johnster

[corneliuslundie]

Alright, the full story:

The three Taff Vale bridges east of Cardiff General were built at different times. First, evidently, came the East Branch bridge, then the Main Line bridge, and finally the viaduct linking the Taff Vale to the southern side of the GWR station.

Initially there was a link to the north side of the GWR station. This was reported as complete on 27 February 1877 but not yet open. On 23 August 1880 the authorities in Merthyr complained about the fact that it had still not opened. Part of the problem seems to have been the inadequate layout at Crockherbtown to deal with trains to the Docks and to Cardiff General as George Fisher wrote a long and complicated memorandum to the Board on the subject.

Eventually passenger services started the next year but the GWR would not accept through bookings and demanded a fare of 1/- per passenger regardless of class (for a five minute journey).

This was resolved within a few months though not before the Taff Vale had started, stopped and restarted the service. The following year the GWR relented and fares dropped to 4d, 3d and 2d for the three classes.

Soon after this services must have been extended to Penarth as they were running by 1886 though I have not found a date. This must have been fun with TVR trains crossing the whole station.

In 1896 the viaduct was constructed by the GWR in association with a major rebuild of the GWR station, and the link to the north side was closed. Colonel Yorke inspected the new works on 5 January 1897, gave provisional approval on 7 January 1897, and the work he had work requested (interlocking between the GWR and TVR signals) had been completed by 16 March 1897.

All this I found out sitting in my armchair, from the Colin Chapman papers, which are available as PDFs from Cardiff Central Library or the WRRC (but beware, they run to over 22 000 pages).

Jonathan

PS I also came across an intriguing announcement of the ending of a TVR through service from Merthyr to Bristol. This was before the through TVR services to Llandrindod and Aberystwyth started.

Edited November 18, 2017 by corneliuslundie

[John_Miles]

Alright, the full story:

The three Taff Vale bridges east of Cardiff General were built at different times. First, evidently, came the East Branch bridge, then the Main Line bridge, and finally the viaduct linking the Taff Vale to the southern side of the GWR station.

Initially there was a link to the north side of the GWR station. This was reported as complete on 27 February 1877 but not yet open. On 23 August 1880 the authorities in Merthyr complained about the fact that it had still not opened. Part of the problem seems to have been the inadequate layout at Crockherbtown to deal with trains to the Docks and to Cardiff General as George Fisher wrote a long and complicated memorandum to the Board on the subject.

Eventually passenger services started the next year but the GWR would not accept through bookings and demanded a fare of 1/- per passenger regardless of class (for a five minute journey).

This was resolved within a few months though not before the Taff Vale had started, stopped and restarted the service. The following year the GWR relented and fares dropped to 4d, 3d and 2d for the three classes.

Soon after this services must have been extended to Penarth as they were running by 1886 though I have not found a date. This must have been fun with TVR trains crossing the whole station.

In 1896 the viaduct was constructed by the GWR in association with a major rebuild of the GWR station, and the link to the north side was closed. Colonel Yorke inspected the new works on 5 January 1897, gave provisional approval on 7 January 1897, and the work he had work requested (interlocking between the GWR and TVR signals) had been completed by 16 March 1897.

All this I found out sitting in my armchair, from the Colin Chapman papers, which are available as PDFs from Cardiff Central Library or the WRRC (but beware, they run to over 22 000 pages).

Jonathan

PS I also came across an intriguing announcement of the ending of a TVR through service from Merthyr to Bristol. This was before the through TVR services to Llandrindod and Aberystwyth started.

 

You have to remember the Taff was there for around 12 years before the South Wales Railway arrived.

 

IIRC Colin Chapman did a book called Rails to Penarth so somewhere in his notes there should be chapter and verse on services to Penarth which I think started, according to Wikipedia, in 1878. Amazing that it was so late.

[The Johnster]

Pretty good history of the area, Cornelius.  The connecting spur between the Taff Vale and the South Wales (Great Western) cab still be seen from trains between Central and Queen Street, it's trackbed rising quite steeply immediately to the east of the Dock Feeder bridge.  

 

Penarth, as a town, was very much a child of the TVR, which had put in the branch to their new dock there before building the further steeply graded branch to the town station and eventually to connect with the new Barry line at Cadoxton via Sully.  It was promoted heavily by the railway as a desirable resort and commuter town for some of their better heeled customers, with large mansions built overlooking the sea and the trappings of a resort with a pier to connect with steamers; of course, more basic housing had to be provided for the dock and railway workers.  It is to this day a flourishing outer suburb of Cardiff, but considers itself not part of the city but of the Vale of Glamorgan, which is the local council.

 

The economic justification for the Cadoxton extention was the large limestone quarry at Cosmeston, now flooded as Cosmeston Country Park.  There is rumoured to be steam crane down there under the water.

 

I would imagine a Merthyr-Bristol through would have run via Caerphilly and Newport rather than Cardiff.

[corneliuslundie]

I agree with the logic of the last statement but if it were their train I doubt if the TVR directors would have done so! The PC&N was not their favourite railway.

I must look out "Rails to Penarth". There aren't many books covering the area I don't have. Mountford and Sprinks wrote "The Taff Vale lines to Penarth. I have just looked and they give the date of the start of the Penarth service as 20th February 1878.  They state: "the TV had hoped to have its own booking office for trains in the Penarth Road, at the rear of the GWR station, but the latter company refused to agree . . ." which would suggest that the trains left from the south (down) side of the station. 

Later the authors say " . . . the Taff's next objective was, naturally, to set up through running between their own main line . . . and Penarth via the GWR station. This was fiercely resisted by the GWR as such trains then had to cross the GWR main line and Penarth Town was not until 19th December 1881 that passengers were allowed into the GWR station over the link from the TVR. . . . through running between the Taff Vale main line and Penarth Town was not achieved until 1st February 1883. 

If I had thought to look in that book every question would have been answered.

What price convenience foe the passengers in the face of the opportunity for a nice row between railway companies? 

Jonathan

BTW I was brought up in Cardiff.

 

Time now methinks to go back to the current bridge raising / track lowering project. Any news?

[John_Miles]

I  could have confused the Mountford / Sprinks book for one by Colin. After all I am getting on a bit so I am allowed to be forgetful. I have seen somewhere that the motivation for the Taff's line through Sully was to stop the Barry getting to Penarth. Not the only railway they built for that purpose. The Cowbridge - Aberthaw railway comes to mind.

 

The bridge raising/ track lowering is currently on hold.

Edited November 23, 2017 by John_Miles

[The Johnster]

I believe the initial TVR passenger service from Cardiff to Penarth departed from the GW's 'Riverside' platforms, later to be rebuilt in island platform form as nos 8 and 9 of the 'General' station.  The TV certainly ran trains to Clarence Road when it was opened, from Penarth and Cadoxton via Penarth, as did the Barry from Barry, and Llantwit Major and Bridgend on the Vale of Glamorgan.  The Riverside Branch was originally a freight only line used by the GWR to access the canal wharves and factories that were in the area, which was later greatly expanded to include large factories such as Renold Chain and Curran's Engineering.  The station at Clarence Road was built by and owned by the GWR, but only used by the Taff Vale for trains from Penarth/Cadoxton and the Barry's trains mentioned above and their Pontypridd-Cardiff via St Fagan's and running powers along the SWML, eventually the infamous 'St Fagan's Pullman'.  

 

There cannot be many examples of a station never used by traffic from it's owning company!

[corneliuslundie]

The Riverside branch was authorised in 1880, opened for goods traffic in 1882 and for passenger traffic in 1894. But that does not give a date for the opening of the Riverside platforms at Cardiff General which was obviously earlier, possible around then the TVR Penarth service started.

Jonathan

[br2975]

Mountford and Sprinks wrote "The Taff Vale lines to Penarth.

 

If I had thought to look in that book every question would have been answered.

 

This excellent Oakwood Press tome is also widely acclaimed for the inclusion of one of my photographs !!!!!!!.

.

Brian R

[The Johnster]

Went over Splott Road Bridge today, and it's progress seems geological but discernable; there is now a tarmac road surface on both ramps of the side that is being done.

[John_Miles]

The slow pace of work on Splott Road bridge continues and now it is to b eclosed for a few weeks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42908326

[John_Miles]

There is now a large crane and a cruncher and between them they are demolishing the southern span (the one with no track beneath it). There is a possession on the relief lines and the electrical type people are using it to install piles for the overhead wires supports.

Edited February 14, 2018 by John_Miles