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Triang TT Technical advice


Marakas
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Hi

 

my quest to become operational continues! In the meantime, I am in the process of both building a whitemetal 4F, and re-spraying a couple of Triang Loco shells.

 

My first question is:  Can anyone advise me on replacement wheels for the Triang 0-6-0 chassis - not too complicated mind you, I'm no engineer.

 

Second question, can anyone suggest a good power supply compatible with the Triang motors, I read somewhere that they take a more powerful output in amps? Will Gaugemaster suit?

 

Joined the 3mm society as suggested.....its all in there, but digging it out and joining the dots can be quite a challenge!!!! I am starting a small prototype layout in late autumn to practice some modelling skills on....should be fun...missus will go mad!

 

Cheers

 

Mark!

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I modelled in Triang TT many years ago. Although I never re-wheeled any locos I found any power unit / controller designed for 12V DC OO was OK for TT.

 

Over the years I used a Hornby Dublo Marshal 3, Codar with simulator, Hammant & Morgan Powermaster etc and various others. Never had any problems at all. I dug out my TT stuff a while ago and ran it a bit, using my Gaugemaster hand held controller. No problems other than most of the track was completely worn out, as were most locos !!

 

Good luck - a nice scale is TT.

 

Brit15

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There was an article entitled Re-wheeling a Triang chassis by Dudley Withers in Mixed Traffic no. 75. He used Kean Maygib wheels, no longer available, but the recent 3mm Society SQ wheels would do the same and be even better. Never done it myself or even thought about it, but I would imagine that the problems are:

(1) you might need to bush the axle holes; all current 3mm axles are 1/8", not sure what Triang is.

(2) if you re-use the existing Triang motor and worm you might need to work out how to remove the gear wheel from the driving axle and re-use it.

(3) you might need to bush the coupling rods, if the holes are much larger than the SQ coupling rod pins.

(4) you can probably re-use the existing pickups.

 

Back numbers of Mixed Traffic are available through the Society via Tim Barnard. A question on the Yahoo group might yield more information.

Edited by NCB
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  • 3 months later...

Years ago I believe Romford did 3mm wheels as I have used some on kits and Tri-ang chassis (or is that chassies). I say probably as they might have been 4mm ones on 12mm gauge axles. They looked OK so did not investigate further. A look on E-bay might source some. Great thing about Romfords is that they are self quartering.

In most cases I have used my Peatol Lathe to turn down Tri-ang wheels successfully. If you know someone with a lathe that could be an option.

When I was modelling in 3mm I was doing it on a very tight budget so had to use all my ingenuity to keep costs down.

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Romford did indeed do a few types of 3mm wheels. Also, before Romford disappeared the 3mm Society commissioned some 16.5mm (5'6") driving wheels, to 3mm scale and the latest 3mm Society RP25 Intermediate Standard. These are available from both the 3mm Society and 3SMR.

 

With Romford disappearing the 3mm Society set about commissioning their own comprehensive  range of replacement wheels, known as SQ wheels; these are plastic centred but, like Romfords, self-quartering, having a square axle hole which fits Romford-style axles. 3SMR also do their own similar range of wheels, with both plastic and cast centres.

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Later Romfords were fine, early ones had quality control problems. Once assembled a chassis (in OO) with Romfords, checking on a flat bit of track to make sure it was square. Later as an afterthought decided to check it on a piece of plate glass, supposedly the way to do it, according to the experts. Rocked all over the place. Turned out the flange diameter on one wheel was way over spec. Moral: plate glass is useless, checks the wrong thing; check it on flat track.

 

Plastic-centred wheels vary in quality. Never tried the 3mm Society's SQ wheels (although they're supposed to be OK), but the fine-scale ones are fine. In OO I got on with Ultrascale, Gibson and a few others not so much.

 

Nigel

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  • 7 months later...

Here is a Castle I re-wheeled about 35 years or more ago and just dug it out now.  Romford axles were/are a  direct fit in the chassis both being 1/8", I cannot remember how I fixed the gear wheel on but Romfords I thing did some axles with centre splines for this.  This Castle chassis I modified to take the XT60 motor too and after all that time with a drop of oil ran very nicely.  As well as the Castle I also repainted a Britannia replacing all the moulded handrails with wire ones.

 

Garry

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So it can be done! It's possible the gear wheel had a screw fixing.

 

Like the repaints. Having the proper lining improves them no end. Can you remember if these were transfers?

 

Nigel

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Hi Nigel,

 

The worm is the standard Tri-ang one so no screw fixing, I just cannot remember if it was fitted on to splines, a good press fit on the axle, or, super glued on although I don't think I ever used superglue in those days and never liked the stuff, still don't use it now.

 

The transfers were possibly pressfix or most likely old Kemco 00 waterslide ones I used to use in those days.  Occasionally I used pressfix but not keen on them so cannot be 100% certain but the colour of the "orange" makes me think it was pressfix.  The coach lining here was pressfix definitely.

 

Garry

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As I cannot seem to find just a basic Tri-ang TT thread I will have to use this but I suppose this could be classed as technical advice.

 

Here is some work in progress on a couple of Blood and Custard livery coaches. These started out as rough WR Ebay ones but cleaned up quite well. The cream has been left as Tri-ang's WR but masked off for the Blood colour to be put on. It has seeped in a couple of places and the cream did rub thin along the join but looks okay to me. The lining is Pressfix and the numbering/lettering are Fox. It now needs an extra coat of varnish and the opposite sides to do, solebars to be black and the ends and bogies touched in but overall I am quite pleased. The Blood (Crimson) is a darker shade to the Carmine and Cream versions, I much prefer the darker one.

 

Garry

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Yes NCB, Fox 4mm which still seem smaller than Tri-ang's own moulded/printed ones.  Sorry for the late reply.

 

Here are the coach repaints done and finished so far, BR lined maroon of which there are 6 coaches in the rake. BR SR green of which there are only these 4 and my Blood and Custard repaints. 2 of these are completed with the top one to finish off. Here is a video of them being pulled, the dining room lighting leaves a lot to be desired but as my wife points out "it is a dining room not a railway room". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsm4LW7O9Dg&feature=youtu.be

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People talk about the difference between Enamel and Acrylic paint and I can only say I prefer Enamel although with car sprays (mainly for my Dublo stock) I have no choice, like as here with TT coach roofs. What I can say is you should NEVER put Acrylic on top of Enamel as the "thinners" in Enamel will react with the Acrylic make up as I have found out a few times in the past. Some people say a day later is fine as the "thinners" have evaporated, most say a week or two, I say never if it can be avoided. Here are two Tri-ang TT coach roofs that were brush painted Humbrol black over 35 years ago, yes over 35 years ago and not touched until now, and you can see what has happened to one of them when I used a Satin car spray a couple of days ago. I will say I did 8 roofs and this was the only one that had the reaction, why just one? I cannot say but it shows that after such a long time it is still possible for damage to occur. This roof is fine by me and I can live with what has happened but in the past the paint has lifted to require a strip down and repaint from scratch.

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Think the problem is that there are different acrylics which behave in different ways. I've always understood never to use enamels over acrylics. However, for the other way around, for locomotives (GWR) what I used to do was spray using Railmatch GWR green enamel, then paint the black bits using Polyscale Steam Power Black acrylic, which gives an excellent finish even when brush painted. I still do sometimes, only thing is the Polyscale stuff I find goes off after a bit, so sometimes I use enamel instead if I've run out. But generally American acrylics such as Polyscale are excellent, cover well and finish well; think they're more sensitive over there about using enamels in a home environment, so acrylics are quite widely used, and of a quality to match.

 

Nigel

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Enamel on Acrylic is fine as there is nothing in the Acrylic to affect the enamel as the Acrylic is usually water based. You cannot put Acrylic on Enamel due to the thinners in the Enamel reacting with the Acrylic, at least in the Uk. Any model shop will tell you so which is why Acrylics here have a clear lid but Enamel ones are opaque. If you pick a clear lid can the shop keeper will usually tell you "Your not going to put that on Enamel are you, it won't work".

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Here is a Tri-ang Pullman that I bought in a rough condition in the early 70's and thought I could do it up. It was not very successful then but I have resurrected it and tried again. The transfers are from a Tri-ang 00 Brighton Belle kit and quite poor rub on ones (maybe age has affected them?). It does mean the number 85 is wrong but I am not a rivet counter/purist in that sense so it will do me. I did buy two at the time but think the other was so poor I threw it away, I wish I had known better at the time. It is unlikely I will get any untouched ones or even poor ones these days as they are quite expensive if and when available. I have no idea where the interior is but I only removed it yesterday and now lost it.  The lining had to be cut down so each corner is a separate one with the straight lines done in sections when it broke up.

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The Tri-ang Castle always looked wrong and possibly due to, 1) the firebox shape being flat sided to fit the motor of the time, and, 2) the chimney always looked wrong. Measuring the chimney it is the correct diameter but possibly a mm or so too high but the big problem was the copper top being very small in depth. In reality the copper goes nearly half way down the chimney. Here is my Pendennis Castle now finished with a deeper copper top chimney (I could not cut it down) and gold lining to the splashers and cab windows. I have not done the wheels yet as I am leaving them until after a small village show in case people want to see what was used. You can see where I shorted out the insulation on this side so I could use all nickel rimmed wheels. At the time Romford never made plain nickel ones.  I have found that the nickel tyres do not hold the rail as good as the old steel ones and this is the same as Dublo locos where the 3-rail mazak wheeled ones pull better than their 2-rail counterparts and old Tri-ang iron rimmed wheels are better than their later nickel replacement ones.

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The Tri-ang Castle always looked wrong and possibly due to, 1) the firebox shape being flat sided to fit the motor of the time, and, 2) the chimney always looked wrong. Measuring the chimney it is the correct diameter but possibly a mm or so too high but the big problem was the copper top being very small in depth. In reality the copper goes nearly half way down the chimney. Here is my Pendennis Castle now finished with a deeper copper top chimney (I could not cut it down) and gold lining to the splashers and cab windows. I have not done the wheels yet as I am leaving them until after a small village show in case people want to see what was used. You can see where I shorted out the insulation on this side so I could use all nickel rimmed wheels. At the time Romford never made plain nickel ones.  I have found that the nickel tyres do not hold the rail as good as the old steel ones and this is the same as Dublo locos where the 3-rail mazak wheeled ones pull better than their 2-rail counterparts and old Tri-ang iron rimmed wheels are better than their later nickel replacement ones.

 

I don't know if anyone has listed this but Markits of Watford took over the Romford mantle, mostly 4 mm stuff in either 00 or EM (P4 for fittings)gauge but has a selection of 3 mm scale items. Whilst doing the range of old Romford TT gauge wheels he still does the TT gauge axles for drivers, so I guess its just a case of buying the correct size in mm that you require. You will need the axle screwdriver and also will need to buy some crank pins, as said the wheels are a doddle to fit as they self quarter and can be taken on and off as required

 

Works on his own so a bit difficult to get on the phone (phone in office only which is over his noisy workshop) easy to talk with so can answer questions about gears, very reliable but sometimes a bit slow in dealing with orders or answering emails. I never had any problems with him but he works in his own time and way 

 

Website  http://www.markits.com/MARKITS_Price_Guide_2013_09.pdf  

Markits (UK) Ltd.

PO Box 40

Watford

Hertfordshire

WD24 6TN

UK.

Tel (44)(0)1923 249711

e-Mail: markits@btinternet.com

 

Index

Jan 2013(rev3) Prices correct at time of publication E&OE

Item Code DESCRIPTION: [ Price per Axle ]

Retail

Price

inc VAT @

20%

ROMFORD 'TT' WHEELS

3BUFTT 3mmPlug-in 3mm Wagon Buffer Heads Brass (Plug-in) (BULK / LOOSE Each)

BUFtt3 3mm Wagon Buffer Heads Brass (Plug-in) (Pkt 4) £2.20 £2.64

MRAXTT Rmfd TT / HoN3 / 12mm Driving Axles £0.67 £0.80

MRAXTT/Ex Rmfd TT/HoN3/12mm Extended Driving Axles (Inc Nuts) £0.67 £0.80

MRTT07Di/b Rmfd 7mm Bogie Disc /Inside Bearing £2.00 £2.40

MRTT07Do/b Rmfd 7mm Tender DiscPinpoint Axle £2.00 £2.40

MRTT09Di/b Rmfd 9mm Bogie Disc /Inside Bearing £2.00 £2.40

MRTT09Do/b Rmfd 9mm Tender DiscPinpoint Axle £2.00 £2.40

MRTT09Si/bB Rmfd 9mm Bogie Spoked £2.00 £2.40

MRTT09So/bB Rmfd 9mmTender SpokedPinpoint £2.00 £2.40

MRTT10.5-2HDo/b BR 10.5mm (Std) 2-Hole Contoured Disc Wheel £2.00 £2.40

MRTT010.5Di/b Rmfd 10.5mm Bogie Disc /Inside Bearing £2.00 £2.40

MRTT010.5Do/b Rmfd 10.5mm Tender DiscPinpoint Axle £2.00 £2.40

MRTT010.5Si/bB Rmfd 10.5mm Bogie Spoked £2.00 £2.40

MRTT010.5So/bB Rmfd 10.5mm Tender Spoked £2.00 £2.40

MRTT012Di/b Rmfd 12mm Bogie Disc /Inside Bearing £2.00 £2.40

MRTT012Do/b Rmfd 12mm Tender DiscPinpoint Axle £2.00 £2.40

MRTT012Si/bB Rmfd 12mm Bogie Spoked £2.00 £2.40

MRTT012So/bB Rmfd 12mm Tender Spoked Pinpoint £2.00 £2.40

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Here are some more clips of what I have this time with more interest on the stock as opposed to the kids. The big three locos this time are all repaints as are all the coaches but for the two utility vehicles. Hopefully the coaches will be clearer in these shots. I have 2 suburban rakes, a set of 3 fully lined maroon and a set of 2 unlined maroon.

 

 

Garry

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I don't know if anyone has listed this but Markits of Watford took over the Romford mantle, mostly 4 mm stuff in either 00 or EM (P4 for fittings)gauge but has a selection of 3 mm scale items. Whilst doing the range of old Romford TT gauge wheels he still does the TT gauge axles for drivers, so I guess its just a case of buying the correct size in mm that you require. You will need the axle screwdriver and also will need to buy some crank pins, as said the wheels are a doddle to fit as they self quarter and can be taken on and off as required

 

 

Romford at one time did a few genuine TT driving wheels, i.e. correct number of spokes, or there abouts. Think these stopped some time ago, but  the 3mm Society and 3SMR hold stocks of a 16.5mm TT driving wheel (5'6") which they jointly commisioned from Romford. 3SMR lists some Romford-type square centred wheels, which I know nothing about. The 3mm Society now produces their own square centred driving wheels to replace the Romford ones; these are normally glued in place, rather than screw-fixed, although for testing purposes just friction-fitted is good enough.

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This is the opposite side of the Pullman coach seen earlier. I found some old HRMS pressfix Pullman transfers that had dried up so thought I would use them using the meths fix option. Again these are 00 so a very tight fit. I thought I was lucky with the double yellow lining as alternate ones were just the correct distance apart so masked off the centre pair. Unfortunately I had forgotten that one line (outer one) was thicker so the top one is upside down. Also the masking tape down the centre did hold the edges up a little. The word Pullman was even tighter on this side than the previous side and the name/number box just fitted on the inner lining instead of inside it all, it was similar with the crests but not too bad all things considered. The corners had to be done individually (as did the number) and the lining being very old did crack up but it is finished now and okay at 100mph. At £80 for a second hand reasonable one the other day this was/is a better option for me.

 

In some ways it might not be as good as the plain side but I cannot do anything about it now.

 

 

Garry

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Edited by Golden Fleece 30
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