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45 ton Ransomes Crane





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#26 The Fatadder

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:39

All of these photos of the new Bachmann Ransomes & Rapier brakedown crane shown at Warley have got me thinking about how whether it is actually going to be suitable for my layout. Along with what I need to build to go with it assuming that it is suitable.

So far my research has reached a dead end, I am trying to confirm if the Ransomes crane Bachmann are producing would be suitable to model the Laira (or Newton Abbot?) crane in 1947?

In terms of the rest of the train, I know of the Mess & Tool van kits (Mallard, and no doubt to rocket in price once the Bachmann crane hits the shelves), is there anything else which is required to run with the crane?



#27 The Stationmaster

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 14:36

According to Peter Tatlow's magnum opus there were no GWR R&R 45 ton cranes south-west of Bristol/Swindon in GWR days.  However a couple of things are in your favour if you decide t bite this particular bullet.  Firstly - although unlikely in that period I would suggest - some of Tatlow's allocation information for 1960 does not agree with official information.  Secondly, and of real relevance to you is the fact that breakdown cranes not only attended breakdowns a considerable distance 'out of area' if the need arose but they were also used on other things such as bridge renewal.

 

So, subject to them meeting Route availability criteria (and an R&R 45 ton crane was based at Laira in 1963) there is no reason why one should not have been seen passing Brent to or from a job.  It would however have been part of its own special train formation as cranes of that capacity were not permitted to be conveyed on freight trains.


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#28 The Fatadder

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 19:09

Thanks Mike,
Good / bad news I guess, I will see the final result and then decide if I can justify it for something that’s stretching plausibility

#29 ianofsklr

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 06:35

When was the red livery introduced?



#30 Mad McCann

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 08:01

I think 1962 officially but I'll need to consult the book to be sure. Stand by on that and I'll get back to you unless someone else gets there before me.

D4
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#31 phil gollin

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:46

.

 

I think the colour schemes, stripes, insignias and home depot markings are a real problem for Bachmann.

 

Obviously, the cranes went from black to red (AT VARIOUS TIMES), but in addition they picked up rear yellow and black stripes (AT VARIOUS TIMES) and changed from the early "unicycling lion" to the late "ferret with a dartboard" emblem (AT VERY DIFFERENT TIMES).  So they are all problems.

 

In addition, for myself, even if Bachmann produced what I wanted (a black one, with early emblem) what would be a killer would be if that was a Western Region version, not a Southern Region one.  I would NOT spend well over £100 for a "foreign" crane.

 

The combination of all these variables means that Bachmann have a problem.  Are they just going to produce two/four liveries or small runs of lots of different liveries ?  I would hate to be the person making that decision.

 

.


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#32 Downer

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:01

.
 
I think the colour schemes, stripes, insignias and home depot markings are a real problem for Bachmann.
 
Obviously, the cranes went from black to red (AT VARIOUS TIMES), but in addition they picked up rear yellow and black stripes (AT VARIOUS TIMES) and changed from the early "unicycling lion" to the late "ferret with a dartboard" emblem (AT VERY DIFFERENT TIMES).  So they are all problems.
 
In addition, for myself, even if Bachmann produced what I wanted (a black one, with early emblem) what would be a killer would be if that was a Western Region version, not a Southern Region one.  I would NOT spend well over £100 for a "foreign" crane.
 
The combination of all these variables means that Bachmann have a problem.  Are they just going to produce two/four liveries or small runs of lots of different liveries ?  I would hate to be the person making that decision.
 
.


One would hope that someone like Cambridge Custom Transfers produces a suitable set for customising the crane.

#33 PenrithBeacon

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:16

Peter Tatlow s, excellent books on Railway Breakdown Cranes is a good place to start.
This was built from a Peter Tatlow drawing, apart from the wheels it is plastic card.
...

https://www.amazon.c...ways of Britain

Expensive!

#34 phil gollin

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:29

One would hope that someone like Cambridge Custom Transfers produces a suitable set for customising the crane.

.

 

You may do that if you wish, I will not, as I said, for such an expensive model (even if it gorgeous).

 

.



#35 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:32

Hi David

 

Cheaper if you go directly to the publisher, Crecy Books.


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#36 Miss Prism

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:51

The caption is not correct on this one - it isn't a 27xx, but a 1901 class, but anyway:

 

 

 


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#37 Ramrig

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:00

I saw the EP in the collectors lounge on Sunday at Warley. The impression I was given is the cost of the crane will be circa £200 +

That said it is a work of art and fully functional (non powered). It will be down to individual choice. No ones forcing anyone to buy one.
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#38 PenrithBeacon

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:09

Hi David

Cheaper if you go directly to the publisher, Crecy Books.


That's Vol2, the link I made was for the out of print Vol1. Still expensive especially for both volumes!

Regards

#39 PenrithBeacon

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:12

I saw the EP in the collectors lounge on Sunday at Warley. The impression I was given is the cost of the crane will be circa £200 +

That said it is a work of art and fully functional (non powered). It will be down to individual choice. No ones forcing anyone to buy one.


These vehicles had, I believe, minor differences from owner to owner and period to period. Was any mention made of which owner/period the model would cover?

Regards

#40 Dunsignalling

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:24

.

 

I think the colour schemes, stripes, insignias and home depot markings are a real problem for Bachmann.

 

Obviously, the cranes went from black to red (AT VARIOUS TIMES), but in addition they picked up rear yellow and black stripes (AT VARIOUS TIMES) and changed from the early "unicycling lion" to the late "ferret with a dartboard" emblem (AT VERY DIFFERENT TIMES).  So they are all problems.

 

In addition, for myself, even if Bachmann produced what I wanted (a black one, with early emblem) what would be a killer would be if that was a Western Region version, not a Southern Region one.  I would NOT spend well over £100 for a "foreign" crane.

 

The combination of all these variables means that Bachmann have a problem.  Are they just going to produce two/four liveries or small runs of lots of different liveries ?  I would hate to be the person making that decision.

 

.

If the notes I jotted down at the time of the original announcement are (still) correct, 38-802, the BR late crest model in black, will be of the ex-SR Exmouth Junction crane nowadays based on the Mid Hants Railway.

 

Unless something else altered at the time it received late crest, it should be straightforward to backdate it.

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 29 November 2017 - 12:26 .

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#41 farren

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:31

I will be getting one, and do except to be paying £200~ for it. Simply because it's highly unlikely that another company will think of doing a new crane any time soon. However I would like to know if 45t ransomes was ever based in or near Leicester MML?

#42 The Stationmaster

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:35

 

But well worth the money if you're sufficiently interested, the original publisher's price on Volume 1 was £33.

 

.

 

I think the colour schemes, stripes, insignias and home depot markings are a real problem for Bachmann.

 

Obviously, the cranes went from black to red (AT VARIOUS TIMES), but in addition they picked up rear yellow and black stripes (AT VARIOUS TIMES) and changed from the early "unicycling lion" to the late "ferret with a dartboard" emblem (AT VERY DIFFERENT TIMES).  So they are all problems.

 

In addition, for myself, even if Bachmann produced what I wanted (a black one, with early emblem) what would be a killer would be if that was a Western Region version, not a Southern Region one.  I would NOT spend well over £100 for a "foreign" crane.

 

The combination of all these variables means that Bachmann have a problem.  Are they just going to produce two/four liveries or small runs of lots of different liveries ?  I would hate to be the person making that decision.

 

.

 

Don't overlook the fact that for major derailment jobs the large cranes worked 'out of district' and across Regional (and possibly pre 1948 Company?) boundaries.  So for example in 1960 additional cover for London Division WR cranes could come from Neasden, King's Cross, Woodford Halse, Willesden, Kentish Town and Nine Elms with several of those cranes being R&R 45 tonners.  Equally the Old Oak Common 45 ton R&R crane was authorised to cover various parts other Regions and had assisted at the site of the Harrow coliision site in 1952.  The Old Oak crane was authorised to work over quite a lot of the SR London suburban network going as far out as Guildford, Staines, Horsham and so on.  

 

On one famous occasion in the 1960s there were two WR 45 ton cranes plus one from the LMR working on a derailment site within a few miles of of Swindon (the LMR crane was brought into re-rail one of the WR ones which had toppled and derailed).


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#43 Dunsignalling

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:41

I will be getting one, and do except to be paying £200~ for it. Simply because it's highly unlikely that another company will think of doing a new crane any time soon. However I would like to know if 45t ransomes was ever based in or near Leicester MML?

I agree that the Bachmann model is likely to be the only game in town for the foreseeable future so the choices are:

 

  1. Adapt the one that comes closest to your requirements.or tolerate it as-is if you can't bear to do so. It looks like I am going to be in luck on this one, most unexpected.
  2. Hang on in the hope they will do the exact version you want later.
  3. Forget it.

Sorry, but I don't know what cranes the Eastern Region had or where they were based.

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 29 November 2017 - 12:42 .

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#44 Gordon Connell

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 13:38

That's Vol2, the link I made was for the out of print Vol1. Still expensive especially for both volumes!

Regards

 

Try this: http://www.crecy.co....77418e6871efa0e


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#45 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:13

...Don't overlook the fact that for major derailment jobs the large cranes worked 'out of district' and across Regional (and possibly pre 1948 Company?) boundaries...

 I would be amazed if the Big Four companies didn't have at least gentlemen's agreements for loans of such equipment in the event of major accident. This simply because they were interdependent in providing the national transport service.

 

... I don't know what cranes the Eastern Region had or where they were based.

 Happily for me KX had a Ransomes 45T from mid WWII, and that's that as far as any justification is required for my late fifties/early sixties scenario in the KX inner sub area. As you propose, a RTR alternative ain't coming along any day soon.


Edited by 34theletterbetweenB&D, 29 November 2017 - 14:15 .

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#46 Southernman46

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:41

One in Black, Red or Yellow should suit most BR era layouts -

 

I'm certainly not going quibble whether it's the exact version we used to use out of Horsham to deliver electrification equipment - when it's in the train with the Parkside ex-SR "B" van's, BR tube wagons and ex-trestrol (created from 2 Bachmann weltrols) with a substation transformer being delivered as a load all behind a 33 its's still going to look great ........................


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#47 GreenGiraffe22

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:46

I've had a look around online and can't really find an answer, were they always self propelled or did locos move them about to get them around quicker? I would assume so as the model is going to be unpowered?

#48 GeoffBird

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:46

 I would be amazed if the Big Four companies didn't have at least gentlemen's agreements for loans of such equipment in the event of major accident. This simply because they were interdependent in providing the national transport service.

 

 Happily for me KX had a Ransomes 45T from mid WWII, and that's that as far as any justification is required for my late fifties/early sixties scenario in the KX inner sub area. As you propose, a RTR alternative ain't coming along any day soon.

According to "Finsbury Park DMD 1960 - 1983",they originally had a Cowan's Sheldon 75 ton crane, ADB 966112, painted red and with an assortment of vans.  Did this come from 34A?  This was replaced at some stage by a red-liveried 45-ton Cowan's Sheldon crane from Thornaby, ADRC 95222 which stayed to the depot's closure in 1981. 



#49 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 14:47

I agree that the Bachmann model is likely to be the only game in town for the foreseeable future so the choices are:

 

  1. Adapt the one that comes closest to your requirements.or tolerate it as-is if you can't bear to do so. It looks like I am going to be in luck on this one, most unexpected.
  2. Hang on in the hope they will do the exact version you want later.
  3. Forget it.

Sorry, but I don't know what cranes the Eastern Region had or where they were based.

 

John

Hi John

 

From the 1970 Sectional Appendix For the Southern end of the ER

 

Doncaster 75 ton steam crane No 967159 Cowans Sheldon

Frodingham , tool vans

Immingham, 45 ton steam crane No 966103 Cowans Sheldon

Lincoln, tool vans

Finsbury Park 75 ton steam crane No 966112 Cowans Sheldon

Hitchin , tool vans

Tinsley 45 ton steam crane No 330102 Ranson & Rapier

Toton (LMR, but covered ER lines) 36 ton No 1106

March, 45 ton Steam Crane 330110 Cowans Sheldon

Norwich, tool vans

Cambridge, 45 ton Steam crane No 330133 Cowans Sheldon

Stratford, 75 ton steam crane No 966111  Cowans Sheldon

Colchester  tool vans

Ripple Lane 30 ton steam crane No 330136 Ranson & Rapier

 

Regional Spare 30 ton steam crane No 330115 Cowans Sheldon, normally held at Shirebrook, but has been seen on Hanging Hill.


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#50 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 15:07

The Bachmann model seems to represent the war time built 45 ton Ranson & Rapier cranes. 10 were bulit, 6 went to the MoS, 1 to the WO , 2 to LNER and 1 to the SR. 

               

The 3 that ended up on BR were

LNER No 941601, later BR 1st No 331102, 2nd No ADRR 95214, stationed at Kings Cross 1943 -61, Grimesthorpe 61-65 and Tinsley 65 to 85 when withdrawn.

LNER No 951516, later BR 1st No 122 (ER number) 2nd No RS1083/45 (LMR number, 1958) 3rd No ADM1083, 4th No ADRR 95215, stationed at Gorton 1943 to 1965 (in 1958 Gorton became an LMR shed) and Newton Heath 1965 to 79.

SR No 1580S, later BR 1st No DS1580 (Sr number), 2nd 151 (WR number, 1963), 3rd ADRR 95216, stationed at Exmouth Junction 1945 to 64 (in 1963 exmouth Junction became a WR shed), Newton Abbot 65-69, Laira 71-79 being withdrawn from Old Oak Common in 1983.

 

All three are persevered along with a MOS crane number WD214. 


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