Jump to content




Photo
* * - - - 1 votes

45 ton Ransomes Crane





  • Please log in to reply
319 replies to this topic

#76 Wild Boar Fell

Wild Boar Fell

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,173 posts

Posted 04 December 2017 - 23:18

Having seen the photos posted earlier and the information in the above link, I must take my hat off to Bachmann regarding these cranes, they look exceptional!

 

They do appear to have captured all the major detail variations that I had previously investigated and then to make it fully pose-able really is the icing on the cake.

Will I replace my 3D print with one, no (that has a special place on display at home) but will I buy one... Probably, just for the 'wow-factor'.

 

I do note that the splashers have had to be left open at the rear on the match wagon, but I remember from designing the kit that this area was extremely tight especially when designing it for OO so think that is probably the neatest solution (less noticeable too on the GWR wagons with their extra tool boxes).

 

I look forward to seeing the finished article, Bachmann's designer should definitely be proud of those EPs.

 

Wild Boar Fell 


  • Agree x 4
  • Thanks x 1
  • Informative/Useful x 1
  • Friendly/Supportive x 1



#77 Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,749 posts
  • LocationDown there or up here, depends.

Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:56

38-803 for me.

 

Mike.



#78 G-BOAF

G-BOAF

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 03 January 2018 - 01:24

I am trying to ballpark the likely price of these before pre-ordering.

Based on Andy's wonderful video in the 'Bachmann Review of Outstanding Models', I am assessing as follows:

 

The Stokes Bogies look similar in complexity, detail and size to the GWR Shunters truck, which when last issued was about £17RRP

The Jib Runner, based on comparably sized wagons (but recognising the amount of separately fitted detail), £22RRP

The crane itself is something of an unknown quantity, but given the very lare number of parts and loco-level engineering (more complex than many locos and without any electrics) could conservatively be costed at around £60, though possibly higher.

Total RRP estimate £117, which would allow a shade under £100 with 15% discount.

 

Then again I suspect this ballpark may somewhat conservative, especially given that, like the inspection saloon, there will be few multiple purchases and a not insignificant developing and tooling cost to recover.

 

But people will balk at a single unpowered item of rolling stock wagon (albeit modular) crashing the £100 barrier! I think it would be a first for RTR aside from Kernow's 4TC.


  • Funny x 1

#79 Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,426 posts
  • LocationCornwall and Hampshire

Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:19

Personally I am expecting much higher than £117 before discount. £60 for the loco part of your estimate seems way too low for today’s market.

Sales to recoup costs will likely be lower as well, pushing up cost. Whilst the initial models will no doubt sell very well, I would imagine that over the years Bachmann will sell less than for a powered loco.

Roy


Edited by Roy Langridge, 04 January 2018 - 05:49 .

  • Agree x 1

#80 Tim Dubya

Tim Dubya

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,682 posts
  • Location71G - C.U.B.A.

Posted 03 January 2018 - 07:07

£200
  • Agree x 9

#81 Dunsignalling

Dunsignalling

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,410 posts
  • LocationMilepost 154 3/4

Posted 03 January 2018 - 07:11

My own guess is that the RRP will be £189.99, discount prices around £160.

 

If anything, I reckon my estimates are on the low side but I don't think they'd risk an RRP north of £200.

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 03 January 2018 - 07:14 .

  • Agree x 2
  • Like x 2

#82 tractionman

tractionman

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,004 posts
  • LocationBangor NI

Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:28

I see Hatton's are estimating £90

http://www.hattons.c...tockDetail.aspx

Cheers,

Keith
  • Funny x 6
  • Craftsmanship/Clever x 1

#83 Dunsignalling

Dunsignalling

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,410 posts
  • LocationMilepost 154 3/4

Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:37

I am trying to ballpark the likely price of these before pre-ordering.

Based on Andy's wonderful video in the 'Bachmann Review of Outstanding Models', I am assessing as follows:

 

The Stokes Bogies look similar in complexity, detail and size to the GWR Shunters truck, which when last issued was about £17RRP

The Jib Runner, based on comparably sized wagons (but recognising the amount of separately fitted detail), £22RRP

The crane itself is something of an unknown quantity, but given the very lare number of parts and loco-level engineering (more complex than many locos and without any electrics) could conservatively be costed at around £60, though possibly higher.

Total RRP estimate £117, which would allow a shade under £100 with 15% discount.

 

Then again I suspect this ballpark may somewhat conservative, especially given that, like the inspection saloon, there will be few multiple purchases and a not insignificant developing and tooling cost to recover.

 

But people will balk at a single unpowered item of rolling stock wagon (albeit modular) crashing the £100 barrier! I think it would be a first for RTR aside from Kernow's 4TC.

I don't think comparing the relieving bogies and runner to conventional wagons really holds up.

 

The quantities across which Bachmann will need to  recover the tooling costs are likely to be only 5 to 10% of those in which a general wagon would be produced.

 

As for the crane itself, despite not being motorised, it seems to incorporate more parts than most locos so assembly time/cost will be substantial.

 

In any event, the cost of the motor and gears within a r-t-r loco is, almost certainly, less than £20 so the lack of them won't have much effect.

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 03 January 2018 - 08:42 .

  • Agree x 4

#84 phil gollin

phil gollin

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,199 posts

Posted 03 January 2018 - 20:23

.

 

This link was given in the "Bachmann review of outstanding models" thread ;

 

 

http://www.bachmann....hive.php?id=493

 

Which VERY UNFORTUNATELY means that there isn't a readily available Southern Region version for the 50's, and I will cancel my pre-order and hope a Southern Region one comes in the second batch, a great shame.

 

.


  • Informative/Useful x 1
  • Agree x 1

#85 Dunsignalling

Dunsignalling

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,410 posts
  • LocationMilepost 154 3/4

Posted 03 January 2018 - 21:36

.

 

This link was given in the "Bachmann review of outstanding models" thread ;

 

 

http://www.bachmann....hive.php?id=493

 

Which VERY UNFORTUNATELY means that there isn't a readily available Southern Region version for the 50's, and I will cancel my pre-order and hope a Southern Region one comes in the second batch, a great shame.

 

.

I've been trying (so far unsuccessfully) to establish whether the BR lined black (Eastern Region) version is similar enough to permit renumbering to a Southern example with no or minimal modification.

 

Until and unless I can, I have today cancelled my pre-order and will also wait-and-hope.

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 03 January 2018 - 21:49 .

  • Informative/Useful x 1

#86 darren01

darren01

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,037 posts
  • LocationDevon, in the middle of nowhere!

Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:21

I am sure he said in the video that they will not be making them again after these ones, get them while you can, I too see these selling for around £160-200. 


Edited by darren01, 04 January 2018 - 01:21 .


#87 Dunsignalling

Dunsignalling

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,410 posts
  • LocationMilepost 154 3/4

Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:46

I am sure he said in the video that they will not be making them again after these ones, get them while you can, I too see these selling for around £160-200. 

Which is far too much to spend on something and immediately hack it about drastically to represent the version I want,

 

I haven't yet learned enough about the prototypes being covered to decide if that will be the case or it will be straightforward to do. 

 

Anyhow, they said that about the Blue Pullman................

 

John


Edited by Dunsignalling, 04 January 2018 - 08:43 .

  • Agree x 1

#88 Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,426 posts
  • LocationCornwall and Hampshire

Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:51

I am sure he said in the video that they will not be making them again after these ones, get them while you can, I too see these selling for around £160-200. 

 

I don't recall that - he did day that production numbers would be set soon and that you should get your pre-order in to avoid missing out.

 

Roy



#89 micklner

micklner

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,528 posts
  • LocationEssex

Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:41

He also mentioned M of S and LNER versions which aren't even listed at the moment , perhaps more versions to come/to be added.



#90 The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 32,408 posts

Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:09

I've been trying (so far unsuccessfully) to establish whether the BR lined black (Eastern Region) version is similar enough to permit renumbering to a Southern example with no or minimal modification.

 

Until and unless I can, I have today cancelled my pre-order and will also wait-and-hope.

 

John

 

Surely the $64,000 question is to what extent did the livery change between late company ownership and early BR ownership.  The answer I suspect is probably going to be 'not very much' and that is certainly my hope for the GWR version, especially is somebody happens to produce some suitable transfers to match what few changes there probably actually were.  Time to study photos rather than dash into cancelling pre-orders I suspect.


  • Like x 1

#91 phil gollin

phil gollin

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,199 posts

Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:10

I am sure he said in the video that they will not be making them again after these ones, get them while you can, I too see these selling for around £160-200. 

.

 

I cannot help people making commercially naive statements.   Producing an originally Southern/Western crane and NOT releasing them in the most popularly modelled time period is financially unsound.  The Southern Railway/Great Western versions are only valid for 8-odd years (or less), most of which was the war, whereas the British Railways black/red period are basically twice as long.

 

In addition, as with the Blue Pullman, once they have the moulds just to sit there and not produce another version in the future is cutting their nose to spite their face.

 

IF Bachmann want to ruin their sales, that is their choice.  I WANT Bachmann (and the other manufacturers) to make money (so that they can produce more models), but they won't do that making silly commercial choices.

 

.


Edited by phil gollin, 04 January 2018 - 10:12 .

  • Agree x 2

#92 cheesysmith

cheesysmith

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,745 posts
  • Locationescafield

Posted 04 January 2018 - 17:52

Having gone through this thread, am I correct in saying this model would be OK for the tinsley one? Also, does anybody have any photos of the tinsley crane and support coaches. Also, how long was the crane stationed at tinsley and was it replaced with a different one or did BR decided it didnt need one here?



#93 Fantastic Mr Fox

Fantastic Mr Fox

    Registered Member


  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts

Posted 04 January 2018 - 23:53

I for one am eagerly awaiting my new 38-803 crane.

 

Fantastic looking model judging by the pictures and the video posted elsewhere on this forum.

 

Already ordered my first at the bargain price of £90 from Hattons!



#94 Ramrig

Ramrig

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 530 posts
  • Location17A. Derby Shed

Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:11

I for one am eagerly awaiting my new 38-803 crane.
 
Fantastic looking model judging by the pictures and the video posted elsewhere on this forum.
 
Already ordered my first at the bargain price of £90 from Hattons!


That’s only an estimated price
Quote Hattons site Bachmann Branchline 38-803 45-ton Ransomes and Rapier crane in BR red ( Price is estimated - we will notify you if price rises and offer option to cancel)

#95 snailpace

snailpace

    Registered Member


  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:45

Having just seen AY’s interview at Bachmann I have decided to pre-order one. It isn’t really appropriate for the era I’m modelling but not only does Rule 1 apply, but this looks likes one of those models that will be a jewel in the crown of any collection. It seems that many new models produced today do not have long production runs for various reasons and I’m not fussed about the price (I’m hoping Bachmann won’t read this!).

#96 JSpencer

JSpencer

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,697 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:10

Having just seen AY’s interview at Bachmann I have decided to pre-order one. It isn’t really appropriate for the era I’m modelling but not only does Rule 1 apply, but this looks likes one of those models that will be a jewel in the crown of any collection. It seems that many new models produced today do not have long production runs for various reasons and I’m not fussed about the price (I’m hoping Bachmann won’t read this!).

 

They will but your "I'll pay anything" will be drowned out by the "that's way too expensive".



#97 Dunsignalling

Dunsignalling

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,410 posts
  • LocationMilepost 154 3/4

Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:26

They will but your "I'll pay anything" will be drowned out by the "that's way too expensive".

So it might be, but if Bachmann can sell all they make to those who decide the model is worth the price, the people who don't buy one won't matter, will they?

 

Same reason I don't matter to BMW or Porsche. :jester:

 

John



#98 Dunsignalling

Dunsignalling

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6,410 posts
  • LocationMilepost 154 3/4

Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:40

Surely the $64,000 question is to what extent did the livery change between late company ownership and early BR ownership.  The answer I suspect is probably going to be 'not very much' and that is certainly my hope for the GWR version, especially is somebody happens to produce some suitable transfers to match what few changes there probably actually were.  Time to study photos rather than dash into cancelling pre-orders I suspect.

I've already found out enough to know that just sticking some lining and BR markings onto the SR one won't work for me.

 

The GWR and BR(E) ones seem to get closer to what I want but I'm not going to commit myself to what is a fairly hefty chunk of expenditure until I have learned more.

 

A breakdown crane Is not something I regard as a "must have" so, if they do sell out like the Bluebell C, I'm more relaxed about missing out than buying something that isn't close enough to satisfy my wants.

 

John



#99 adb968008

adb968008

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,298 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 13:07

But people will balk at a single unpowered item of rolling stock wagon (albeit modular) crashing the £100 barrier! I think it would be a first for RTR aside from Kernow's 4TC.

Rails has £125 for a coach, which apart from looking nice, hasn’t got anything exceptional with regards innovations to it... typical 2 bogie, 3 piece (frame, body, interior) mould with detailing extras and painted interiors added on.

Edited by adb968008, 05 January 2018 - 13:10 .


#100 adb968008

adb968008

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,298 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 13:16

My own guess is that the RRP will be £189.99, discount prices around £160.

If anything, I reckon my estimates are on the low side but I don't think they'd risk an RRP north of £200.

John

I agree, can’t help thinking this is going to push quality control to its limits, assembly time is going to be considerable, and a challenge for the production line to assemble.. it’s not going to be “familiar” like a loco at all to assemble, from what I figure each chain has to be manually attached, tensioned and when complete all tested, I bet when that batch is shipped the factory floor will breath a sigh of relief.

There’s probably a risk of a higher level of returns due to “people stick their fingers in the rigging” too.
People aren’t going to buy multiples of them and the price has to be reflective of all of the above... who will have 3 or 4 steam cranes ?

It’s the most interesting model I’ve seen since Heljan did the Garrett (operational issues aside).

However I do predict whatever high price it gets, it will sell fast, become rare and be a major talking point in 2018, having seen them up close at Warley, I think as models go, this is probably one of the best pieces of delicate precision model engineering on rails, made ready to run for quite some time. I will be buying one, regardless the price.

Edited by adb968008, 05 January 2018 - 13:24 .

  • Agree x 4