Flying Scotsman back on the mainline - 2016

[Hilux5972]

I agree a replica would have been cheaper. It could have been renamed as lost members of the class too at times without the purists getting annoyed at Scotsman being changed.

[PhilH]

Could have, would have, should have.

 

The mantra of all not involved in actually doing anything.

[RJS1977]

NRM and the Preservation movement ought to give consideration to suitable locomotives for future mainline running.  A trick has been missed here, a replica A3 should have been built at less than the cost of the Flying Scotsman rebuild with A4 boiler Cylinders internal streamlining etc for running and  the "Old" one kept as a static exhibit like Livingstone Thompson of the FR, built out of scrap components.  

 

Hunslet tried something similar a few years ago - telling the narrow gauge preserved railways it was cheaper to build a new Quarry Hunslet than rebuild one. However all the preserved railways said they'd still rather stick with the ones they'd got.

 

Ultimately,history counts for something. The replica Rocket at NRM and Firefly at Didcot are interesting enough rides,but we know deep down that they're not the real thing and it does take something out of the experience (rather like the actors who are saying they don't like the new Coronation Street set at Salford because they're not the cobbles Ena Sharples walked on!).Yes, I know many of the surviving steam locos have had so many parts replaced there's not much of the original left but they still have a connection to the original that a replica does not.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be replicas where the original has been scrapped or where restoration would destroy too much of the loco (e.g Rocket) but it's not quite the same as having a ride behind the original.

[Boris]

Personally I think you speak from the point of view of an enthusiast who actually knows the difference, whereas the average member of the public who is the bread and butter of preserved railways doesn't really care as long as long as it goes chuff.  Both are valid points of view but given preserved steam availability is low perhaps we need to act now so people can still enjoy kettles in the future?

 

Edited because public means something else entirely when you miss out the "L"

Edited December 5, 2015 by Boris

[Reorte]

Personally I think you speak from the point of view of an enthusiast who actually knows the difference, whereas the average member of the public who is the bread and butter of preserved railways doesn't really care as long as long as it goes chuff.  Both are valid points of view but given preserved steam availability is low perhaps we need to act now so people can still enjoy kettles in the future?

 

Edited because public means something else entirely when you miss out the "L"

With the new builds underway I think we are acting now. They understandably concentrate on classes that don't exist any more though, I suppose there's a question of whether it would be better to build missing examples or the type of loco that's most suited for typical preserved railways, although they're not so appealing if you want mainline steam, where being able to pull heavy loads quickly is what you need.

[jjb1970]

If there are more efforts to manufacture new steam locomotives, rather than producing copies of what has gone before I think it would be much more interesting (and perhaps much more useful) for that effort to be invested in building something like the Wardale 5AT. Whilst it is probably of academic interest only it would be fascinating to see what could be achieved by trying to apply modern technology to the steam locomotive with the aim of delivering optimum performance. There are always great claims made for concepts like the 5AT and it would be wonderful to see just what the design was capable of in the real world. And in terms of running steam excursions etc it would probably be much more attractive in terms of operation than building a copy of a 1920's or 1930's design I think.

[Clearwater]

Whilst I think it would be wonderful to see a wholly new design, I'm not sure that would capture the public imagination in the way a replica / new build could. It seems to me the issue the heritage rail sector has is that it's motive power is focuses on small tanks, suitable for the initial operations, and big heavy 8Ps suitable for the mainline. Am fully aware there are plenty of manors, halls etc out there but I'd have thought the demand from the the heritage sector for mid range locos to pull their heavier trains could drive the new builds of some of the lost mogul, Atlantic, 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 classes. It will be interesting To see how much demand GWS gets for their Saint

 

I should add that i don't think replicas have to be exact copies. Like tornado, modern technology should be used to inform the design and sympathetically update. Main thing is that the loco looks like the prototype. Truly 1:1 modelling!

 

David

Edited December 8, 2015 by Clearwater

[jjb1970]

I'd agree that my preference for a 5AT is probably not shared by the majority of heritage train enthusiasts and that more classic steam would be the more popular choice. That said, I do think there'd be some potential to capture peoples affections by an effort to bring the steam locomotive back to life not just as a museum piece but as something trying to be relevant in the 21st Century. I'm not saying that the 5AT would threaten modern diesels or electrics. The thermal efficiency is still dire despite all the efforts of Mr. Wardale and combusting coal is rapidly becoming about as socially acceptable as smoking or drink driving (although the 5AT could be fuelled on oil) but the performance potential of the 5AT was very promising for a steamer. I'd just love to see it done.

[Guest]

https://twitter.com/railwaymuseum/status/678947193856880640

[gwrrob]

Flying Scotsman is down to be a guest engine at the SVR 2016 Autumn steam gala.

[Dunsignalling]

Hunslet tried something similar a few years ago - telling the narrow gauge preserved railways it was cheaper to build a new Quarry Hunslet than rebuild one. However all the preserved railways said they'd still rather stick with the ones they'd got.

 

Ultimately,history counts for something. The replica Rocket at NRM and Firefly at Didcot are interesting enough rides,but we know deep down that they're not the real thing and it does take something out of the experience (rather like the actors who are saying they don't like the new Coronation Street set at Salford because they're not the cobbles Ena Sharples walked on!).Yes, I know many of the surviving steam locos have had so many parts replaced there's not much of the original left but they still have a connection to the original that a replica does not.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be replicas where the original has been scrapped or where restoration would destroy too much of the loco (e.g Rocket) but it's not quite the same as having a ride behind the original.

Original? I wonder how many parts of Flying Scotsman could actually be traced back to the original locomotive when built?

 

In common with most preserved steam locos of that age, almost everything will have been renewed at least twice and it will have acquired a significant number of parts obtained from scrapped classmates during and since BR service.

 

Once the fanciful "wartime" black 103 becomes BR Brunswick green 60103, the mechanical specification and the livery will match for the first time in decades.

 

4472 and Apple green were all very well, but looked ridiculous when combined with the BR double chimney and "German" smoke deflectors.

 

John

Edited December 21, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Sir Hadyn]

http://blog.nrm.org.uk/how-much-flying-scotsman-original/

 

I know the author quite well...

[t-b-g]

To me it matters not one jot how much of Flying Scotsman is still there from when it was first built. The fact remains that what is around today has a direct lineage back to the very dawn of the LNER.

 

Any suggestion that people might fund a build of a totally new design loco are, I feel barking up the wrong tree. Running steam locos in the modern era is a lot about nostalgia and very little about developing the design of steam locos further. I find it very difficult to get nostalgic about something that never existed. I never saw a P2 but wish that I had. Before too long I hopefully will.

 

I know that the NRM has had its critics and I haven't agreed with everything that has gone on there but my hat is fully off to them for their dogged and persistent work in getting Flying Scotsman back to running condition. Their refusal to cut corners and bodge is something that previous overhauls would have benefited from!

 

It is one of the most well known locos in the world. Whether that is justified or not is irrelevant. It simply is.

 

To have it back in working order is really lovely and I look forward to seeing her before too long. I will even forgive the "Cowpat green" livery as a good friend of mine referred to the BR colour!

[EddieB]

http://blog.nrm.org.uk/how-much-flying-scotsman-original/

 

I know the author quite well...

 

Yes, but how much of him is original?  I gather human cells are constantly being replaced.

[EddieB]

Well it could soon be a day to Bury good news.

[Zomboid]

I'd agree that my preference for a 5AT is probably not shared by the majority of heritage train enthusiasts and that more classic steam would be the more popular choice. That said, I do think there'd be some potential to capture peoples affections by an effort to bring the steam locomotive back to life not just as a museum piece but as something trying to be relevant in the 21st Century. I'm not saying that the 5AT would threaten modern diesels or electrics. The thermal efficiency is still dire despite all the efforts of Mr. Wardale and combusting coal is rapidly becoming about as socially acceptable as smoking or drink driving (although the 5AT could be fuelled on oil) but the performance potential of the 5AT was very promising for a steamer. I'd just love to see it done.

I'd be very interested in a 21st century steam engine, purely to see how well it works. But then for me steam engines aren't in any way nostalgic as I've only ever seen them in captivity, it's more about them being interesting technology.

[stewartingram]

Good to see the old girl back. After all this while, it was becoming comparable (in peoples' negative posts anway) to the likes of vapourware from DJM (no insult intended btw). Must get out to see her inaugral run on trhe southern bit of the ECML in 2016.

 

Stewart

[colin penfold]

Update , she ran under her own steam

 

https://www.facebook.com/SteamRailway/photos/a.179018615490446.44390.178339255558382/1021332257925740/?type=3&theater

[The Blue Streak]

Update , she ran under her own steam

 

 

That's great news.  

Say what you will, it is the most well known Steam Engine in the World and it's the one that the general public want to see. If you ask the run of the mill person in the street to name a famous loco, I guarantee the Majority will say FS.

I hope honestly believe that back on the mainline and in the Public eye this engine will help attract new blood to develop an interest in the Railways and also to our Hobby and surely that can only be a good thing.

I'm not really convinced that any other Engine would generate the interest 4472 60103 does and for that reason alone it needs to be out on the mainline drawing crowds and being an ambassador for the preservation scene.

Edited January 8, 2016 by The Blue Streak

[Peter Beckett]

Update , she ran under her own steam

 

That is good news as my wife and I are booked on the Waverley 10th July from York to Carlisle return and really looking forward to the trip

 

Peter

[jetmorgan]

News release on the BBC website

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35241788

[gordon s]

Interesting to see they have given her a 50A shed plate for York.  Understandable, but raised something I had never thought about.  Were shed plates changed every time a loco moved sheds?

[edcayton]

If future generations want steam they can build it. This generation has done way beyond what could have been expected in preserving and operating railways.

 

Re Scotsman in particular. If we knew then what we know now then perhaps it might have been an idea to build a replica and plinth the original. I'm glad they (we?) didn't. I don't care how many new bits she's got there is still the spirit of the original (like my 1971 MG).

 

Congratulations and thanks to all involved, and I look forward to seeing her again whatever livery, but will admit to a sneaking preference to what I believe will be the first when on BR.

 

Ed

[LMS2968]

Interesting to see they have given her a 50A shed plate for York.  Understandable, but raised something I had never thought about.  Were shed plates changed every time a loco moved sheds?

Yes, that was the point. Maintenance records of every loco were kept at its home shed. If a loco underwent a repair at a different shed, they had to know where to send the details of what and when was done.

[gordon s]

Thanks for that.  Funny, I grew up with steam and Platform 10 and KX was my usual haunt every weekend, but hadn't given it a second thought until this morning.  So maintenance records must have moved with the loco each time it moved to a new 'home' shed.  Makes perfect sense, but no doubt paperwork must have gone missing over the life of a loco, particularly towards the last years of steam.