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Oxford Diecast/Golden Valley - YE Janus 0-6-0DE


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Hi all. There are some really interesting points raised here and thanks for everyone’s contributions. We try to work closely with manufacturers and get comments if any questions are raised. I’ve been in touch with Fiona at Golden Valley Hobbies who commented:

 

“Like any product there is an expected failure rate – from my 20 years as a retailer and importer it runs at around 1% . The Janus return rate since launch in September is hovering at close to 0.25%. Partly because it’s designed to be a simple model with few parts to fail, or get damaged and partly because every loco is test run at the Oxford Diecast factory before they are shipped.

Anything which is reported as faulty is returned to us at my cost, and inspected and repaired/replaced.

 

The faults so far split into the following:

  1. Damage post manufacture – e.g dropping, opening or more often finding the insides filled with carpet fibres and hair!
  2. Slow/stalls – which is mainly due to dirty wheels or pickups, but on one model was a bent pick up.
  3. Burnt out capacitor due to running the model on half wave settings – using 1960/70’s H&M controllers in the main.
  4. Reverse running (more of this later)
  5. Missing second flywheel (as follows)

 

Point 5 - The loco CAD and design was for one flywheel fitted after and slightly above the motor on the driveshaft. There was never a plan for two flywheels.

 

We’ve been sent some photos and now realise that a modeller has mistaken a universal joint as a second flywheel. The simple answer is that during the manufacture of the first model the factory decided the centre of gravity was too high. They reengineered the motor/shaft assembly so that the flywheel could be moved from above the motor, to below it, replacing the universal joint. This has no impact on the smoothness of the drive but does reduce the risk of wobble when entering corners at high speed.

 

This brings us on to Point 4. During the analysis and trial to make the change, at some point one production line misunderstood, and simply reversed the motor on the shaft – but failed to switch the +ve and -ve power feeds. So, on a very small quantity of models the loco runs backwards compared to other models on a layout. This problem can be resolved if converting to DCC by changing the CVV setting for direction. On DC the fault was also simple to fix. As all power from the track passes through the DCC Socket and blanking plate, we simply specified that the factory needed to make a new blanking plate with the +ve and -ve feeds deliberately crossed over.

Any owner with a reverse running loco has been sent one of these blanking plates free of charge and it immediately solves the problem.”

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Point 5 - The loco CAD and design was for one flywheel fitted after and slightly above the motor on the driveshaft. There was never a plan for two flywheels.

 

We’ve been sent some photos and now realise that a modeller has mistaken a universal joint as a second flywheel. The simple answer is that during the manufacture of the first model the factory decided the centre of gravity was too high. They reengineered the motor/shaft assembly so that the flywheel could be moved from above the motor, to below it, replacing the universal joint. This has no impact on the smoothness of the drive but does reduce the risk of wobble when entering corners at high speed.

 

Good to receive feedback from Golden Valley but unless I'm missing something very basic the above part of the statement just doesn't add up.

 

Altering the design by separating the central combined universal Joint/flywheel assembly and replacing it with the simple U/J and attaching the flywheel at the other end of the motor will have had no effect on the important (in modelling terms) height (vertical Y Axis) Centre of Gravity at all. 

 

As the flywheel has been moved forward the C of G along the models Horizontal X axis will have moved from its original position outward from away from centre towards the flywheel. A much less desirable effect.

More importantly the static weight of the model will have been moved more to the flywheel end thus lightening the mass bearing down on the axle at the opposite end to the flywheel.

I can see how the flywheel will reduce wobble when entering a curve due to gyroscopic effect but this is with the heavy flywheel end leading. With the light non flywheel end leading the opposite will be the case.

Having had Janus locos with the flywheels in both positions through my hands I have noticed no difference in the very good running qualities of both types.

 

The only way the statement above from Golden Valley  could be correct would be if the chassis was orientated as in the phot below but unfortunately we don't run our models with the buffers pointing to the sky.

 

post-508-0-89146600-1521467008_thumb.jpg

 

Am I missing something?

 

P

Edited by Porcy Mane
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Mine went pop when running analogue on lenz dcc after running in on a gaugemaster dc unit. Is that what is meant by para 3?

 

It's never a good idea to run an analog loco on DCC - even though you can with some systems such as Lenz.

 

Cheers,

Mick

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It's never a good idea to run an analog loco on DCC - even though you can with some systems such as Lenz.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Thanks Mick. Yes, I knew that DC on lenz dcc was feasible, but in practice not something you'd want to do for long. Janus went pop immediately, coupled with that expensive blue smoke. It's the only DC loco that I've ever had this happen to

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Good to receive feedback from Golden Valley but unless I'm missing something very basic the above part of the statement just doesn't add up.

 

Altering the design by separating the central combined universal Joint/flywheel assembly and replacing it with the simple U/J and attaching the flywheel at the other end of the motor will have had no effect on the important (in modelling terms) height (vertical Y Axis) Centre of Gravity at all. 

 

As the flywheel has been moved forward the C of G along the models Horizontal X axis will have moved from its original position outward from away from centre towards the flywheel. A much less desirable effect.

More importantly the static weight of the model will have been moved more to the flywheel end thus lightening the mass bearing down on the axle at the opposite end to the flywheel.

I can see how the flywheel will reduce wobble when entering a curve due to gyroscopic effect but this is with the heavy flywheel end leading. With the light non flywheel end leading the opposite will be the case.

Having had Janus locos with the flywheels in both positions through my hands I have noticed no difference in the very good running qualities of both types.

 

The only way the statement above from Golden Valley  could be correct would be if the chassis was orientated as in the phot below but unfortunately we don't run our models with the buffers pointing to the sky.

 

attachicon.gifOx-Rail-Janus-080-EditSm-90°ccw.jpg

 

Am I missing something?

 

P

Yes....A life.. :onthequiet:

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  • 1 month later...
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News on the Port of London Authority Janus.

According to a response of Facebook, they are currently on water and should be due mid June.

 

Owen

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great news about the PLA Janus. I assume the wagons are on the same boat?

Looking forward to having it and the recently-announced Hornby PLA Peckett scuttling about on the quayside.

I have a question, though: what brake van would be suitable?

(Incidentally, I told someone recently that I had a few PLA models on order. Brow furrowed, they asked in all seriousness if I was modelling Palestinian railways now?)

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Beware, Black Marlin, of the PLA wagons! As far as I know the PLA Railway Department did not have 7-plank end-tip wagons in its vast fleet of opens. Those recorded are of the merchandise type and these ranged from 3- to 6-plank. I hope that when the Oxford wagons arrive they bear the numbers which I gave Golden Valley at the initial stage. These numbers were of three 6-plank merchandise opens used in the Royal Docks. What I cannot confirm is whether they survived into the PLA's diesel era as during that time the only wagons and vans in use had numbers prefixed by A B or C in a new series. Brake vans were only employed in one of their Dock Groups and then in the Royals only for the transfer trip between Royal Victoria, Royal Albert and King George docks because of the steep gradients. There were only a handful of brake vans of the same design and without duckets. I have a photo of a Royals transfer trip showing a brake van but it is too distant for much detail. A PLA loco crew (steam or diesel) always comprised a 'shunter' usually riding on the steps with coupling hook at the ready!!! I hope this helps. Kind regards, Colin Withey.

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That serious comment about 'PLA' referring to the Palestinian railways is one that I can also vouch for - just put PLA into Google!!! Way back around 1909 the newly formed PLA applied to RCH for mainline status. It was black-balled by the mainline companies so all PLA rolling stock was confined to internal dock working not just for transhipment between berths but delivery of coal and other fuels plus engineering aspects. Maintenance of rolling stock was contracted out to Harland & Woolf (H&W) whilst that for provision and maintenance of permanent way was with John Mowlem. The Janus worked both at Royals and Tilbury but their heavy maintenance was undertaken at H&W in the Royals. PLA had an extremely good working relationship with BR and transfers of the Janus on the LT&S were permitted.

 

As reference has been made to Hornby's PLA Peckett No.74 I should add that this loco was based at PLA Millwall Shed for the India & Millwall Docks (I&M) system (the separate East India Dock system was also under I&M management). Maybe now is the time to press for an PLA liveried Austerity from one of the current manufacturers. Care was taken by Golden Valley in giving the Janus a fleet number of one that worked at both Royals and Tilbury so an Austerity should be so chosen as they also worked at both these dock groups. Despite the odd exception, all I&M locos were four wheelers. Then comes other PLA motive power! Alas not all the information available on PLA Railways could be incorporated into Dave Marden's two part series on "London's Dock Railways". A third part to 'closure' is really needed.

 

If anyone is interested in the PLA owned types of vans and wagons that the Janus handled, or by any other PLA motive power for that matter, they are welcome to contact me direct. Regards, Colin Withey.

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Correction to my reference to PLA brake vans. I do have two images of parts of these vans and one clearly shows it had duckets. Whether all had has still to be proven so any more photographic evidence would be most welcome. Regards, Colin Withey.

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Thanks, Paul, I had intended keeping the subject of PLA wagons and vans to RTR!!!   Yes, Cambrian, Ratio, Parkside and other kit makers cover many of the designs of rolling stock that the PLA acquired second-hand.   Parkside do the BR Palvan for example that would produce A45 ex-B761349, A52 ex-B772972 and A79 ex-B772970 which certainly would have been handled by the Janus at either Royals or Tilbury.   The latter two were of the three that went to the Bluebell but alas they could not find the PLA number of the one that was scrapped.   Had Dave Marden's series gone into a third part then I had wanted a chapter on modelling for which the latest kit listing against PLA fleet numbers would have been part.   If anyone wants help with PLA railways, then this PLA pensioner will be pleased to assist if contacted offline.   Nice to have contact with you again Paul.   Kind regards, Colin Withey. 
 

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Beware, Black Marlin, of the PLA wagons! As far as I know the PLA Railway Department did not have 7-plank end-tip wagons in its vast fleet of opens. Those recorded are of the merchandise type and these ranged from 3- to 6-plank. I hope that when the Oxford wagons arrive they bear the numbers which I gave Golden Valley at the initial stage. These numbers were of three 6-plank merchandise opens used in the Royal Docks. What I cannot confirm is whether they survived into the PLA's diesel era as during that time the only wagons and vans in use had numbers prefixed by A B or C in a new series. Brake vans were only employed in one of their Dock Groups and then in the Royals only for the transfer trip between Royal Victoria, Royal Albert and King George docks because of the steep gradients. There were only a handful of brake vans of the same design and without duckets. I have a photo of a Royals transfer trip showing a brake van but it is too distant for much detail. A PLA loco crew (steam or diesel) always comprised a 'shunter' usually riding on the steps with coupling hook at the ready!!! I hope this helps. Kind regards, Colin Withey.

Further to this post, in checking the three wagon numbers in the Oxford Rail website entry (as 126 at Royals, 387 and 468 at Tilbury) I saw that since providing the original data in 2015, they have released a 6-plank merchandise open which is the more accurate tooling for PLA wagons.   I have drawn Golden Valley's attention to this to, alas, find that both the PLA Janus and the wagons have just arrived in UK for distribution.      So if anyone wants to be correct then repaint the livery and apply the numbers to the Oxford Rail's OR76MW6000 series wagons.   Great shame that I did not return earlier to this subject so losing the opportunity to change to the correct planking.   Regards, Colin.

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Good news about the PLA Janus. As a fan of the East London railways, I've been anticipating this one for months.

 

There's a photo here showing a PLA brake van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/5929510697. Unfortunately I don't know enough about brake vans to identify it. Also of interest (to me at least) are the mineral wagons in the background carrying crates.

 

I mentioned this on the thread about Hornby's Pecketts, but in 1954 the PLA loaned a few Austerities from the War Department, including at least two in Longmoor Military Railway livery, so that's an extra ready-to-run loco for those wanting to bulk their fleet up.

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There's a photo here showing a PLA brake van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/5929510697. Unfortunately I don't know enough about brake vans to identify it. Also of interest (to me at least) are the mineral wagons in the background carrying crates.

I also am not an expert on PLA brake vans, but this has a similar appearance to the early Toad B such as http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake/e32035615

 

Co-incidentally I have more recent photos of Janus 30 and 31 at Aldwarke in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/janus for example http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/janus/eadba06e1

 

Paul

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Those of you with preorders on Hattons may wish to check them. They'd accidentally cancelled mine (actually, they accidentally cancelled half of mine, and had boxed up the wagons without the loco!), and if I hadn't been a bit on-the-ball I could have lost out.

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Correction to my reference to PLA brake vans. I do have two images of parts of these vans and one clearly shows it had duckets. Whether all had has still to be proven so any more photographic evidence would be most welcome. Regards, Colin Withey.

I don't suppose you (or anyone else) happens to know what colour the brake vans were?

 

Edit: on the assumption that, if nothing else, it will match the livery of the wagons, I've found a red Bachmann Toad-E (split, I think, from the 'Jack the Saddle Tank' trainset) that will do very nicely - especially once I add the letters 'P L A' to the sides!

Edited by Black Marlin
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I still have the PLA one on pre-order from Rails - I don't think the sound-fitted ones are in yet, which gives my credit card a little breathing space since getting a large-ish order from Rails only a few days ago. :)

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