Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[jrg1]

I'm no expert on the locos of other Companies, but I am here to tell you that the detail differences between NER locos of the SAME class, never mind similar classes like J71 and J72's are sent to try us modellers, I suppose there were 2 locos which were alike, but tracking them down is another story....

 

It all adds to the fun

Try and build a definitive Buckjumper! 

[ArthurK]

I can't have too many shunters, and the only problem with Arthur's kit,and this is NOT a complaint, is availability. Because they are produced in small batches,I have been on the J71 list for a year now, and will still not make the Top 10 for the current run. That's just the way it is.

 

John

 

The J71 is now two years behind schedule due to unexpected events in my life. However I can assure those awaiting the delivery of the J71 that it will be available at the end of this month. The are twelve kits in the first batch but a second batch will be ordered, This will take probably eight weeks because of the intervening festivities.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

One or other of them has an error in the brake rods, which won't fit. I can't remember which it is, but you'll know when you try to assemble it.

 

Regarding the brakes, on both the J71 and J72. Originally both of these classes - the  J71's and the earlier J72's - were built with two brake pull rods, one each side, located behind the wheels. This is the arrangement which the two Mainly Trains chassis kits represent. Later J72's were built with a single centrally located, compensated brake pull rod and many earlier J72's and some J71's were so fitted at overhaul, later in their lives.

 

So the Mainly Trains chassis kits, for both the J71 and J72 can be wrong in that respect as they do not provide for the compensated brake pull rod. As ever, a photograph of the chosen prototype at the time represented by the model is necessary to identify the brake linkage fitted.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[rowanj]

68278 is my preferred choice, as it was a late survivor and spent most of the 50,s on Tyneside. Of course, sods law means there is no photo in Yeadon, so other than knowing it got GS buffers, I can't identify boiler fittings or brake gear issues. If I can't track a photo down, I'll think again about a suitable prototype.

[rowanj]

The Mainly Trains chassis went together with no problems, and is illustrated here as an example of an easy introduction to etched chassis building, though it still needs detailing - brakes, sandpipes etc. I use a Poppy Jig, but actually, this chassis was so well designed it could, with care, have been done without any jigs

 

I started a thread on the "Modifying RTR "forum just to show progress, as other builds tend to be amongst threads of various other loco and wagon constructions, or have been lost in time given the age of the kit - now almost 14 years,

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139208-mainline-j72-to-j71/

[rowanj]

I started to assemble the A8 chassis, which is the usual DJH battleship brass, Can anyone point me towards a source of long axle bearings for the driveing wheels, i.e those whivh wiill protrude through the brass and then be soldered on the inside of the frames?

 

I confess I'm not looking forward to drilling the holes for the brakes. I wonder how many bits I'll break?

 

It's astonishing, at least to me, that manufacturers are still producing stuff like this. I did thing about a 52SF chassis, but none are currently available. I'm wondering if a scratch build might be easier?

 

John

Edited November 14, 2018 by rowanj

[46256]

John I have a number of spare 1/8 th bearings ...did have some long ones will check tomorrow when I go up the loft. Have sent a PM best wishes Brian

[Daddyman]

I started to assemble the A8 chassis, which is the usual DJH battleship brass, Can anyone point me towards a source of long axle bearings for the driveing wheels, i.e those whivh wiill protrude through the brass and then be soldered on the inside of the frames?

 

I confess I'm not looking forward to drilling the holes for the brakes. I wonder how many bits I'll break?

 

It's astonishing, at least to me, that manufacturers are still producing stuff like this. I did thing about a 52SF chassis, but none are currently available. I'm wondering if a scratch build might be easier?

 

John

You wouldn't have to wait too long for a 52F chassis. I wanted something that was out of stock earlier in the summer; he quoted me six weeks but it arrived much sooner than that. Alternatively, use the DJH frames as a template for new ones in 15 thou N/S. 

[MarkC]

I started to assemble the A8 chassis, which is the usual DJH battleship brass, Can anyone point me towards a source of long axle bearings for the driveing wheels, i.e those whivh wiill protrude through the brass and then be soldered on the inside of the frames?

 

I confess I'm not looking forward to drilling the holes for the brakes. I wonder how many bits I'll break?

 

It's astonishing, at least to me, that manufacturers are still producing stuff like this. I did thing about a 52SF chassis, but none are currently available. I'm wondering if a scratch build might be easier?

 

John

I agree with Daddyman - the 52F chassis is well worth waiting for.

 

As for the long bearings - there's no need. As long as your iron is big enough, 25W or more, you can get your shorter bearings soldered into the frames from the outside. Just make sure that the metal is clean and use plenty of flux. It is possible.

[rowanj]

Thanks for the replies. I kept meaning to have a go at a 52F chassis, so may pop along for a chat with Peter Stranger if he is about. He wasnt at the Newcastle Show, so may be "off the team" at the moment.

 

I dug out an old 100 W iron which I last used 25 years or so ago on Jamieson frames, and, surprisingly, it worked, so bearings are now soldered in. I also tend to solder the screwed spacers on DJH chassis, and then file back the heads, or fill the holes when they sometimes snap, to aid clearance and make a neater job. On this lump of metal, even with the bearings shoulders filed, I'm not sure the chassis will go round a 4th radius curve. And that's before I fight with the leading bogie.

 

We shall see.

 

Thanks again

 

John' 

[jwealleans]

John,

 

I've done a DJH A8 and C7. The C7 goes round 3' curves on Grantham, due to the bogie pivot being reversed (the arm pivots in front of the bogie, not behind it) an idea which was given to me by Barry Oliver. There was also a discussion about this on Tony Wright's thread and Frank Davies (Chuffer Davies) illustrated how he addresses the problem of bogie clearances, which seems like a very neat solution. You may have to do some searching but it's worth having a look.

[rowanj]

John,

 

I've done a DJH A8 and C7. The C7 goes round 3' curves on Grantham, due to the bogie pivot being reversed (the arm pivots in front of the bogie, not behind it) an idea which was given to me by Barry Oliver. There was also a discussion about this on Tony Wright's thread and Frank Davies (Chuffer Davies) illustrated how he addresses the problem of bogie clearances, which seems like a very neat solution. You may have to do some searching but it's worth having a look.

 

I remember that discussion, Jonathan, about the B16 if I'm correct. I cant say I entirely followed it- the solution, I mean.

 

My current plan is to construct a sort of bracket/slot above the bogie centre. This is what I did on my B16, using a piece left over from a Bachmann V1/3. I think, and it works very well. But that's all a bit far down the track.

 

I did, as suggested, contact Peter at 52F and he will see what he can do - he has a chassis, but not the castings, He lives not too far away, so at least I'll get a cup of tea.

 

.

[rowanj]

Though not, strictly speaking, kit - building, here is the Mainline J72 converted to a J71 using the Mainly Trains conversion kit now available again from Wizard Models. The work I did can be seen in the Converting RTR Forum.

 

There is rather more to do than is supplied in the kit, but the result is sufficiently different from the J72 donor to make it all worthwhile. J71's were all over the NER until the late 50's , so having one is a useful addition to the loco stack roster.

Edited December 15, 2018 by rowanj

[drmditch]

On my 'Make do and Mend' thread on the LNER forum there is an illustrated account of my A8, which does traverse 20" radius curves. Although not a perfect model, it does have cylinders flush with the footplate valance, and other details sometimes missing from models. It is a compact and tricky wheelbase to get working, not just with the leading bogie, but also with the limiting effect of the trailing wheelset.

 

Mine is still missing brakes, but will have to re-enter shops shortly after encountering some debris left on the track after an engineering possession.

In addition to a new front buffer beam it may yet squire brakes.

[rowanj]

On my 'Make do and Mend' thread on the LNER forum there is an illustrated account of my A8, which does traverse 20" radius curves. Although not a perfect model, it does have cylinders flush with the footplate valance, and other details sometimes missing from models. It is a compact and tricky wheelbase to get working, not just with the leading bogie, but also with the limiting effect of the trailing wheelset.

 

Mine is still missing brakes, but will have to re-enter shops shortly after encountering some debris left on the track after an engineering possession.

In addition to a new front buffer beam it may yet squire brakes.

 

That's  really helpful, I'll certainly look it up, as I'm picking away at the A8. I wasn't going to bother posting much as the kit has been around so long. The basic body is completed, and I'm already finding snags. For example, the recommended AM10 motor is shown in the instructions running off the rear axle, but if I fit it there it fouls the cab interior (such as it is) It wont fit the centre driver as there is a spacer in the way. It does fit the leading driver, which is fine, but I needed to cut away the boiler stub between the tanks. It now fits well,  But would a "learner" have persevered with that, or just given up and done what I suspect the previous owner did and stick it on Ebay?

 

 

Only 1 smokebox door is supplied- the original NER one - and I need a later version for my BR period. You also only get the bunker cage,- most locos lost this and got 3 rail coal rails, but I found a Sunderland loco which will fit that particular bill.

 

I took others advice and bought a 52F chassis, and it is coming along, but I've decided it's too good to waste on the DJHbody, so I've put myself on Peter Stranger's list for when his A8 body is ready, and in the meantime I'll try to get the DJH chassis to run.

 

Thanks again for the build reference - any more gratefully received.

 

John

[rowanj]

I'm not doing anything elaborate with the DJH A8 while I wait for the 52F version. In the main, I've concentrated on making sure it will get round 3rd radius curves. which are tighter than anything on the layout.

 

Some metal has been removed rrom the trailing bogie to give a bit more "swing". On the leading bogie, I've used the Comet/Wizard fret, as commonly found these days on Hornby RTR.As supplied it is very flexible, which helps when setting it up, but also allows it to easily go out of shape. The fret contains a pair of pivot plates, and I wonder if soldering them together to form a single pivot might be better. A bit of metal was also removed from the bogie top to allow a bit more movement.

 

For the cylinder block, I deviated from the instructions and fixed the cylinders to the top, rathe the underneath, the fixing plate. This gives a bit more clearance for the wheels, and brings the cylinders closer to the footplate, which is as it should be. I'll probably have to do a bit of filing to adjust the loco ride height. I also removed the metal cast fronts from the cylinders, which I'll replace with plasticard to reduce the chance of shorting.

 

Finally, I've amended the cab spectacle plates to represent the later "one-piece" version - I did this front AND back, which may, in hindsight, have been a mistake- and have replaced the smokebox door with one from the spares box, which, while not quite accurate, looks better on a BR loco than the NER version in the kit.

 

As I see some of our Christmas dining table has snuck onto a photo, can I wish those who read this a Happy Christmas and happy modelling in 2019.

 

John

Edited December 24, 2018 by rowanj

[46256]

Happy Christmas John

[rowanj]

I;m checking the "cornering" of the DJH A8 after every important step - on this occasion after fitting the RH crosshead. I removed some metal from the cylinder block covers, front and back, where they will be replaced in plastic, and I'm going to have a stab at the distinctive NE draincocks, The photo also shows the replacement smokebox door.

 

For all the faults of this pretty old kit, the whitemetal body does serve to illustrate the bulk of these locos, By the time I started spotting, though they were still around, their days of getting into Newcastle were almost over, as DMU's dominated the suburban services via Sunderland and the coast lines into and from Teesside and Darlington.

[rowanj]

Just to show I do run these things from time to time. the Dave Alexander Q7 is "superpower" on a short LOCO coal headimg for Tyneside from the SE Northumberland Coalfield - probably the  Backworth Colliery complex.

Edited January 5, 2019 by rowanj

[rowanj]

After a bit of a fight, the A8 has now been tested on the sort of working it was used for. The chassis does go round my curves, I'm pleased to say. I did add a few bits and pieces to the basic body supplied in the kit - notably on the bunker rear. I also added the pipework beneath the footplate under the tanks, and a few castings by the smokebox. I still need to fit balance weights and sanpipes to the chassis.

 

I'm not sure what to say about this kit. You do finish up with a sort of A8, but a pretty basic one. in theory, this would suggest a decent entry -level kit, but the issues to make the chassis work will always be a challenge, and I doubt it would ever run if you simply follow the instructions - though there are a few dodges here and there on the Net to help.

 

It' s now in the paintshop, and I'll post a couple of final shots with a list of my additions to close this set of posts.

 

The leading coach, incidentally, is a Kirk Gresley Lavatory/composite - the rest of the rake is just bog-standard Hornby.

Edited January 10, 2019 by rowanj

[mikemeg]

 

 

It' s now in the paintshop, and I'll post a couple of final shots with a list of my additions to close this set of posts.

 

Will this be lined out in the British Railways mixed traffic livery, John?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 10, 2019 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

It' s now in the paintshop, and I'll post a couple of final shots with a list of my additions to close this set of posts.

 

Will this be lined out in the British Railways mixed traffic livery, John?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

It certainly will. Mike - Modelmaster- so the black will be Halfords Satin rather than the Railmatch Weather Black I normally use -as per your suggestion - to help "hide "the transfer film.

Edited January 10, 2019 by rowanj

[MarkC]

After a bit of a fight, the A8 has now been tested on the sort of working it was used for. The chassis does go round my curves, I'm pleased to say. I did add a few bits and pieces to the basic body supplied in the kit - notably on the bunker rear. I also added the pipework beneath the footplate under the tanks, and a few castings by the smokebox. I still need to fit balance weights and sanpipes to the chassis.

 

I'm not sure what to say about this kit. You do finish up with a sort of A8, but a pretty basic one. in theory, this would suggest a decent entry -level kit, but the issues to make the chassis work will always be a challenge, and I doubt it would ever run if you simply follow the instructions - though there are a few dodges here and there on the Net to help.

 

 

Well done. I agree with your comments about it being basic; it's certainly a kit of its time, but having said that, it does capture the imposing 'chunkiness' of the prototype. There is something about the big NER tanks - they had a 'presence'.

[mikemeg]

I had always thought that the A8's were fitted with two different diameters of boiler, over their lives. The original one, the larger of the two, looked to be 5' 6" diameter and the same diameter as the smokebox. The other, fitted later in their lives by the LNER, was 4' 9" in diameter and with the characteristic North Eastern 'step up' to the smokebox diameter.

 

I am told that, in fact, the original boiler was 4' 9" in diameter but was surrounded by a wooden crinoline to which was attached the boiler cladding, which resulted in the boiler appearing to be 5' 6" diameter.

 

It also appears that some A8's retained their original 'augmented diameter' boiler right up until withdrawal.

 

Perhaps those who know much more of the detailed history of North Eastern locomotives could add their comments?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 11, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

John,

 

This photograph, courtesy of Mick Nicholson, might help you in lining out your A8, taken, as it is, from the rear of the loco.

 

The photo very clearly shows the shaping of the lining around the cab window cut out. Notice that this shaping of the lining does not follow the exact radius (9 inches) of the cab cut out. Also worth noting the tightness of the curves on the corners of the tank and bunker lining and its distance - 5 inches - from the tanks and bunker edges.

 

Also worth noting that the rear carrying wheels were 12 spoke, as with the smaller front bogie wheels,unlike the trailing carrying wheels on the A6, which were 10 spoke.

 

The photo's location is Sunderland South Dock though I don't know exactly when the photo was taken, except that it is 1956, or later, with the later BR totem.on the adjacent tender.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2019 by mikemeg