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Ellesmere





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#1 rhyd-y-clafdy

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 21:51

This is my first go at putting something on RMWeb and there's quite a bit I can't figure out.  Anyway, here goes. 

 

This is my new layout 'Ellesmere' being between Whitchurch and Oswestry on the Cambrian main line. I took it to a small exhibition in Ellesmere town hall in September where it was well received and it has some more exhibition dates coming in including Rainfall in March and Wigan in October. 

 

I have tried to make it as convincing as possible and the next challenge is to operate it as convincingly as possible. I have a sequence planned based on the WTT and am trying to get all the correct locos and stock sorted. There was quite a bit of shunting at Ellesmere for which I had a brief excursion into KaDee couplings but am having a go at Alex Jacksons.  Have to see how it goes with that!!

 

One job to do is to get working signals. I've used wire in tube in the past and will probably continue with that technique. I have used Ratio parts so far as a trial run although there is a bracket signal which looks to be non standard and no decent close up photos.  I now have a few packets of signal parts from MSE to play with for the finished versions. The main headache remaining is the back scene which I am currently attempting but Ellesmere has changed a lot over the years so no idea how that will pan out.

 

So.. wecome to my model of Ellesmere.

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#2 coachmann

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 21:00

I would like to see more of this as it is a pretty fantastic layout capturing in detail Ellesmere station complex. I am assuming it is 4mm scale and it looks to be 00 gauge post 1956 with the maroon coaches, but which track have you used? Ellesmere has a sprawling layout which must take up quite a wide baseboard. I love your station building particularly now that I am having to build a similar structure. Fellow member PGH put me on to your thread and so I look forward to following developments.


Edited by coachmann, 23 December 2015 - 21:01 .

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#3 PGH

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 21:15

I visited Ellesmere Station several times in 1962, travelling on the Wrexham - Ellesmere line in its last year before closure.  The first visit was on a lousy day (weather wise) in April 1962 when I took the view looking east from the footbridge.

 

721B.jpg

 

A particularly poor photo due to the weather and my limited photographic skills at the time and one I wouldn't normally post on here, but it does show some detail of signals, etc.  You certainly seem to have all the details correct on your layout.

In the photo the Wrexham train has pulled forward and is about to reverse over the crossover. 

 

A few rather better photos of Ellesmere were posted in my BR photos thread:

http://www.rmweb.co....ays-from-c1960/

 

Like coachmann I look forward to hearing more about this wonderful layout.


Edited by PGH, 23 December 2015 - 21:24 .

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#4 rhyd-y-clafdy

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 16:25

Thankyou Coachmann and PGH for the comments and the photos of Ellesmere.  Yes it is 'OO' and analogue.  The track is SMP with points using copper clad  - 3 of the points at the East end are operated by Tortoise the others wire in tube although the double throw slider switches I have used don't make very good contact and cause problems at the moment. I like the pic of the 3208 and the pannier in the platform.  I assume the pannier has arrived at 5.25pm from Wrexham while the 22xx worked the 12.53 ex Whitchurch which terminated at Ellesmere the working to Oswestry being 5.55 departure of the Wrexham freight so presumably that was how the 22xx returned to Oswestry. However i think it may on occasions have worked a milk train to Crewe when required after shunting , doing the Elson pilot shunt and attaching milk tanks to the Aberystwyth - Crewe.  I am hoping to be able to include these moves in the operating sequence.


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#5 Removed a/c_bri.s

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 18:26

Very nice modelling ,dont know the prototype but looks a very nice layout a nice spacious goods area and I like the interesting 2 sidings behind the platform what is the term for that kind of sleepering ?

Following with interest

Brian

Edited by bri.s, 27 February 2016 - 18:08 .


#6 big jim

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 20:28

Thats lovely, i pass the old station in my way to my dads house in ellesmere, its now derelect, the builders merchant/coal merchant, whatever it was is no longer in the old station building, hope they do something with it, shame if it goes to ruin

E1CA7719-8680-452E-97CD-EC964BD5BAE2.jpg

As ive mentioned before my dads house is built pretty much on the point work of the junction to wrexham just beyond the station in ellesmere, while digging the foundations for his conservatory he dug down to the ballast bed and found a fishplate!
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#7 coachmann

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 22:57

We are fortunate that this building and the more ornamental station building at Oswestry are still extant. I could do with scale plans of one or 'tother if anyone can assist...


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#8 Phatbob

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 17:06

Hello Phil.
Love the new layout, it's looking really good.
I look forward to seeing it in the flesh at "Rainfall", or should that be "Rainhill"?  Just another a bad case of "autoincorrect"? ;-) LOL
I'd persist with the Kadees if I were you, but that's just my opinion on which couplings are the least unreliable.
Cheers,
Bob.


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#9 'CHARD

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 17:17

What a fantastic model - and what an amazing survivor that beautiful building is!!!!


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#10 rhyd-y-clafdy

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 17:25

To answer members queries there are 4 scenic boards 3 of which measure 4' x 3' whilst one at the East (Whitchurch) end (Grange Road bridge) widens to 4' to accommodate the siding by the cattle market. i compressed the plan of Ellesmere into 16' by reducing the length of the goods yard - I don't think the difference is noticeable - they were pretty long sidings and I think I've only reduced the overall length by about 18".  I drew my own plans of the station building which I measured on site but also used brick counting and estimation for the bits I couldn't reach.  At some point I will scan the drawings and post them but not yet! There is concern in Ellesmere as to the future of the station building as the site has apparently been given planning permission for housing. The building is for sale again but there are anxieties as to its future survival in spite of it being grade 2 listed.

 

I don't know what the sleepering in the sidings is called but it was used at quite a few locations on the Cambrian.  It appears that the chairs were fixed to concrete posts with steel stretcher bars at intervals. I just chopped the sleepers on the SMP track I was using and put thin plastic strip inbetween as stretcher bars and painted the remains of the sleepers concrete colour - a tedious task they were long sidings!

 

Hi Bob - good to hear from you.  Yes we are bringing it to Rainhill in March although I doubt that the back scene will be anything like and I probably won't have lighting by then.  The layout fills 2 cars (no more van hire!!) so any lighting rig will have to be modest and lightweight.  As for the couplings I will continue to pursue Alex Jacksons for the time being but am hanging on to all the Kadees I bought - Im not convinced that my skills will produce adequately working couplings and theres a lot of shunting to do!! Look forward to seeing you again.  Phil


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#11 Fat Controller

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 17:41

Those concrete block 'sleepers' were a WW2 introduction, I believe; certainly, the locations I've seen them in were where facilities were extended to deal with wartime traffic.

#12 tanatvalley

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 21:01

The model looks fantastic. What year is the WTT you are basing your movements on?

Alan Buttler of Modelu has recently produced Cambrian Railways seat castings. The seats were found on Ellesmere Station. In fact Ellesmere featured one of the few 3 casting versions, 2 castings were more common.

I have a photograph of a 2251 working through on milk on the outskirts of Crewe.

#13 rhyd-y-clafdy

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 12:43

I didn't realise the 'sleepers' were from WW2 - interesting.  In fact I recently noticed the goods shed siding had them as well  - oh well! too late now! Must check out the Cambrian seat castings.  Ive made do with standard GWR ones for now but did do some drawings with a possibility of getting some made.  The WTT I'm using is winter 59-60 although looking at other examples there was little change during the post war years up to closure. I will endeavour to operate the weekday timetable missing out an up WO cattle train and WSX coal empties.  It would be nice to do the Summer saturday Manchester train but my fiddle yards ( a 9 road traverser at the Oswestry end and fan of 3 sidings at the Whitchurch end only allow for a maximum of loco and 4 coaches or 12 wagons. I had a nice big roundy roundy fiddle yard on Rhyd-y-Clafdy but that would put us back into the need for van hire for exhibitions.  Thanks for all the responses - much appreciated!


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#14 Fat Controller

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 13:38

I didn't realise the 'sleepers' were from WW2 - interesting.  In fact I recently noticed the goods shed siding had them as well  - oh well! too late now! Must check out the Cambrian seat castings.  Ive made do with standard GWR ones for now but did do some drawings with a possibility of getting some made.  The WTT I'm using is winter 59-60 although looking at other examples there was little change during the post war years up to closure. I will endeavour to operate the weekday timetable missing out an up WO cattle train and WSX coal empties.  It would be nice to do the Summer saturday Manchester train but my fiddle yards ( a 9 road traverser at the Oswestry end and fan of 3 sidings at the Whitchurch end only allow for a maximum of loco and 4 coaches or 12 wagons. I had a nice big roundy roundy fiddle yard on Rhyd-y-Clafdy but that would put us back into the need for van hire for exhibitions.  Thanks for all the responses - much appreciated!

Evidently, the line was of such strategic importance during WW2 that passenger services were suspended; apparently there were two military facilities built next to it, which are probably on this list ( http://shropshirehis...itary/camps.htm), but, not knowing the area, I'm not sure which ones they'd be. Certainly, there was a Polish presence near-by, and one site became a camp for DPs after VE-Day.

#15 coachmann

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 14:03

I thought only the Wrexham-Ellesmere branch passenger services were suspended during the war.



#16 big jim

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 14:04

one of them will be park hall between oswestry and whittington and i suspect the other is duddleston heath (which is on the wrexham branch), the bridge is still there a couple of miles outside oswestry on the road out to St Martins

edit: if as larry says it was just the wrexham brach then one of the facilities may have been the ammo site near marchwiel that was on a branch off that line as linked to here in pgh's thread

http://www.rmweb.co....1960/?p=1252608

also regards the polish presence, there is still a polish hospital in penley (on the wrexham branch again)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penley

Edited by big jim, 28 December 2015 - 14:11 .


#17 Quarryscapes

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 14:33

Another excellent layout you've built there, your photo from the road bridge looks very convincing indeed! 



#18 beast66606

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 20:53

A couple of photos of Ellesmere in each of S.D.Wainwrights North Wales books - not sure if you've seen them ?



#19 Phatbob

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 15:40

To answer members queries there are 4 scenic boards 3 of which measure 4' x 3' whilst one at the East (Whitchurch) end (Grange Road bridge) widens to 4' to accommodate the siding by the cattle market. i compressed the plan of Ellesmere into 16' by reducing the length of the goods yard - I don't think the difference is noticeable - they were pretty long sidings and I think I've only reduced the overall length by about 18".  I drew my own plans of the station building which I measured on site but also used brick counting and estimation for the bits I couldn't reach.  At some point I will scan the drawings and post them but not yet! There is concern in Ellesmere as to the future of the station building as the site has apparently been given planning permission for housing. The building is for sale again but there are anxieties as to its future survival in spite of it being grade 2 listed.

 

I don't know what the sleepering in the sidings is called but it was used at quite a few locations on the Cambrian.  It appears that the chairs were fixed to concrete posts with steel stretcher bars at intervals. I just chopped the sleepers on the SMP track I was using and put thin plastic strip inbetween as stretcher bars and painted the remains of the sleepers concrete colour - a tedious task they were long sidings!

 

Hi Bob - good to hear from you.  Yes we are bringing it to Rainhill in March although I doubt that the back scene will be anything like and I probably won't have lighting by then.  The layout fills 2 cars (no more van hire!!) so any lighting rig will have to be modest and lightweight.  As for the couplings I will continue to pursue Alex Jacksons for the time being but am hanging on to all the Kadees I bought - Im not convinced that my skills will produce adequately working couplings and theres a lot of shunting to do!! Look forward to seeing you again.  Phil

Hello Phil.  It would be good to see you.  I have a lightweight portable lighting rig, either 12' or 18' long that you could borrow until you've got your own sorted (so long as I don't have a gig the same weekend, and Rainhill is okay).  I'm sure that with enough gaffer tape and cable ties it could be persuaded to fit. ;-)



#20 rhyd-y-clafdy

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 14:06

Hello Phil.  It would be good to see you.  I have a lightweight portable lighting rig, either 12' or 18' long that you could borrow until you've got your own sorted (so long as I don't have a gig the same weekend, and Rainhill is okay).  I'm sure that with enough gaffer tape and cable ties it could be persuaded to fit. ;-)

Hi Bob! Thanks for that kind offer.  I may well take you up on that if I haven't sorted anything by then.  The scenic section is 16' so would need to check it out at some point as to the best way of fitting it.  I bought a cheap 4 spotlight track from B n Q to play with in the first instance.  A great pity I can't use the Rhyd-y-Clafdy lighting but its too bulky and heavy. Best wishes for the new year - Phil


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#21 Phatbob

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 16:40

Phil, you have a PM.



#22 cambriancoaster

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 12:21

Phil:

 

I'm absolutely delighted to see that you have taken the plunge and started a thread for "Ellesmere" on RMWeb.   It looks to be a fantastic layout and I'm very much looking forward to seeing it "in the flesh".  It is a real bonus that we will be able to keep up to date on its progress with this thread.

 

Perhaps, now that you have got to grips with posting on RM web, you could be tempted on starting a topic for Rhyd-y-Clafdy - your original iconic Cambrian layout.

 

Best wishes

 

CC


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#23 rhyd-y-clafdy

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 15:38

Phil, you have a PM.

Bob! Errr whats a PM?



#24 Andy Y

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 16:02

Bob! Errr whats a PM?

 

It's a Personal Message Phil, if you go to the black bar at the top of the page you should see an envelope icon towards the top right, it may have a red number on it showing if you've got any messages. I've sent you one too. :)

 

Hope that helps.


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#25 44690

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 14:57

A couple more pictures of Phil's superb Ellesmere Layout.

 

First the footbridge and magnificent station building.

 

E01.jpg

 

Second shot is a view of the old turntable and yard.

 

E02.jpg

 

 


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