South African Steam Locomotives for sale.

[45669]

Evening All,

Transnet are selling a large quantity of steam locos, preferably for preservation. However, if no suitable offers are received, they will go for scrap.

This is the Press Release from FEDRAIL :

 

FEDRAIL SA Press Release - Heritage Locomotives for Sale.pdf

 

and this is the list of locomotives available :

 

Steam Locomotives for Disposal - 8 January 2016.pdf

 

One of the locos on the list is 15A Class 4-8-2 1970 'Milly' which was once the shed pilot at De Aar; she was the shed master's favourite and kept in immaculate condition :

 

R4425.  15A Milly at De Aar. 4th September,1972. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

This looks like being the last opportunity to save at least some of what still remains in South Africa.

[EddieB]

While there doesn't seem to that much interest within this forum, judging by the lack of response to Ron's post, I'm pleased to say that I know of one UK-based society who are actively looking at purchasing and repatriating one of the locomotives on the "for sale" list.  Happily, there is also an effort to co-ordinate the actions between preservation groups, so that they don't end up bidding against one another - and hopefully pay around the scrap value to secure locomotives.

 

At the same time, Transnet has drawn up an "A-list"  of locomotives that will be saved for preservation and which are based at several locations around South Africa.  The list includes some early electrics and diesels, along with some famous steamers (such as the Wardale-converted class 26).  There will be a move to concentrate locomotives at some centres, for example Bloemfontein for large main-line locomotives, George for smaller locomotives.  The contents of the A-list - locomotives and rolling stock can be found in the current issue (100) of Locomotives International.

 

It must be hoped that the locomotives set aside for preservation will be kept safe.  Sadly many of the locomotives previously set aside for a National Collection suffered from the depredation of armed and organised metal thieves and many were so devastated that scrapping of what remained was the only viable option.  (Many unique locomotives succumbed, including Wardale's earlier project conversion of a 19D).  It is also of great concern that the "for sale" list now includes several former prestige locomotives.

 

I'm not directly involved, but if anyone here has a serious interest in helping to secure any of these locomotives, or wishes to support any of the groups likely to be bidding, please drop me a PM. 

[Mad McCann]

Wonder if they'd pull out to 1435mm...

[EddieB]

Wonder if they'd pull out to 1435mm...

Even if they did - and the outside cylinders and valve gear would be a problem - there's the little matter that the loading gauge on the South African "Cape Gauge" was rather larger than those of the standard gauge railways of Britain.

[EddieB]

The auction sale took place last Tuesday, 16th February.  Ten (out of 38) steam locomotives were sold - hopefully all to preservation groups (but for the moment it isn't clear who the successful bidders were and they could possibly include scrap merchants).  

 

While I'm pleased at what appears to have been saved for preservation, it is disappointing that many of the locomotives had been allowed to deteriorate beyond the point at which salvation was viable.  In particular the locomotives at Queenstown were once part of a collection being amassed at De Aar for preservation, moved to Queenstown for security and allowed essentially to fall apart due to lack of attention.

 

The status of all the auction lots (which also included electric locos, wagons and other items)  can be found on this link (also with contact details for further enquiries, despite all lots being "closed"):

 

http://international.go-dove.com/en/event-19448/Transnet-Freight-Rail-Online-Auction-South-Africa-Sale-118/lots?Action=Move&AP=1&Auction_ID=0&PP=50&Show=closed&EventID=19448&SortBy=paddedinventoryid&SortDir=asc

[Horsetan]

Even if they did - and the outside cylinders and valve gear would be a problem - there's the little matter that the loading gauge on the South African "Cape Gauge" was rather larger than those of the standard gauge railways of Britain.

There is a class 25 (or is it a 25NC?) at Quainton. The size of the thing is quite apparent, and I doubt that it will ever run here....

[EddieB]

There are several ex-SAR 3'6" gauge locomotives "over here".  Aside from the 25NC at Quainton, there's a GL Garratt at MOSI, Manchester; a 15F 4-8-2 at Riverside, Glasgow; a 7A 4-8-0 now at Shildon; a GMAM Garratt at Summerlee and an A class 4-8-2T at Mizens.

 

The North British Locomotive Preservation Group have just been donated an ex-SAR 19D 4-8-2 by Sappi Saiccor, a paper company that was still using the locomotive until recently.

 

Sadly - and like the deteriorating remains of a 3'6" gauge Tasmanian Pacific at Tanfield - there is little chance of finding somewhere these locomotives can be restored and operated.

[dvdlcs]

Thinking out loud, there is 3'6" gauge in Australia (Queensland and Western Australia at least) plus South Africa (obviously) and parts of South America (Chile at least).

 

Not sure if there is any in North America, although there must be a test track somewhere as some 3'6" gauge locos for Australia were built recently in Idaho.

 

Any in Switzerland? That country seems to have various other gauges.

 

Don't know about the UK.

[Horsetan]

....Any in Switzerland? That country seems to have various other gauges.....

The Swiss have just about every gauge going....except for one: Cape gauge.

[45669]

The 4-8-2 at Quainton Road is a 25NC i.e. a non-condenser.

[cb900f]

I was working for Transnet between 2008 and 2010 on a part time basis  and having visited a number of depots throughout the country there appeared to be steam locos dumped everywhere.I have some pics but am blowed if i can recall the names of the depots.

 

Just wondering if these have now all been scrapped as they did not seem in a hurry at the time?

I can only recall seeing 1 garratt being cut up.

 

 

Cheers Pete

[EddieB]

The 4-8-2 at Quainton Road is a 25NC i.e. a non-condenser.

Or even a 4-8-4.  Always a non-condenser (as opposed to one of the condensers that were rebuilt as non-condensers).

 

I was working for Transnet between 2008 and 2010 on a part time basis  and having visited a number of depots throughout the country there appeared to be steam locos dumped everywhere.I have some pics but am blowed if i can recall the names of the depots.

 

Just wondering if these have now all been scrapped as they did not seem in a hurry at the time?

I can only recall seeing 1 garratt being cut up.

 

 

Cheers Pete

You might be forgiven for thinking that the "dumped" locomotives survived, while the "preserved" locomotives were cut up (by organised gangs of metal thieves).  The latest move appears to be to rationalise a new "national collection" and sell or scrap everything else.  Do the depots you visited correspond at all to those listed in the recent auction?

[cb900f]

Eddie

 

I remember both Wittbank and Germiston. I seem to recollect that one of the depots contained a 4-6-0 that was associated with Cecil Rhodes and looked remarkably British in outline. I will have a word with one of my colleagues as he no doubt made notes.

 

Pete

[EddieB]

Eddie

 

I remember both Wittbank and Germiston. I seem to recollect that one of the depots contained a 4-6-0 that was associated with Cecil Rhodes and looked remarkably British in outline. I will have a word with one of my colleagues as he no doubt made notes.

 

Pete

Rovos Rail have restored 6 class 4-6-0 no. 439 based at Capital Park, Pretoria and one of their "Royal Suites" is named after CJ Rhodes.  Could that be the connection?

[cb900f]

Eddie.

 

I'm certain I have a photo of it . It's on an old computer so I'll dig it out and compare with the class you suggested.

 

Pete

[cb900f]

Eddie,

I've found a photo although there is not much detail in the way of a number.

 

Pete

 

[cb900f]

Eddie,

I've found a photo although there is not much detail in the way of a number.

 

Pete

 

africa 22 003.jpg

here are a few more

[EddieB]

Hi Pete,

 

In the first photo, the 4-6-0 is class 6A no. 462 (Dübs 3443/1897, ex-CGR), .with class 5B 4-6-2 no. 723 (BP 4567/1904, ex-CGR) behind.  This was certainly taken at Krugersdorp (Millsite).  I'd be interested to know the date, as I photographed these locos in the same spot in 2005.  No. 723 was once plinthed and displayed at Strand station.

 

The middle photo of the second batch -s 10C 4-6-2 no. 772 NBL 19200/1910, ex-CSAR.  The wasp stripes are fairly distinctive.

 

At this late hour I'm not sure of the 4-8-0 or the 25NC.

[Dava]

An object lesson in how one of the greatest steam railway systems ever, ends up as scrap and rust. It could have been so different.

 

Dava

[cb900f]

Hi Eddie,

 

Thank you for the details. My colleague was unable to shed any light on the depots we visited.I didn't take many photos as we were supposed to be working and felt guilty at taking photos in works time.The dates were during Jan 2009. Are they all still there or have they been cut up ?

Walking amongst the 25NCs was like walking round Crewe sth with Brits on shed.

 

However for various reasons we did have plenty of time sat around doing nothing. Here are a few more . As you may well know the garratt is at a different shed.

 

Pete

[EddieB]

The 0-8-0 with the Vanderbilt tender is class S2 3765.

 

I think the Garratt is also at Krugersdorp/Millsite as the coaling stage is fairly distinctive.

[dullsteamer]

Thinking out loud, there is 3'6" gauge in Australia (Queensland and Western Australia at least) .

In Australia, every state and territory except the ACT has 3'6" gauge railways.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[stadman]

In Australia, every state and territory except the ACT has 3'6" gauge railways.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Hotham Valley  3'6". Went there about 6 yeas ago. They were using some ex SAR coaches, even the loco was similar to a 19D

[EddieB]

Are they all still there or have they been cut up ?

 

Some reports can be confusing, but I think most of those locomotives in Pete 's photos are still at the site.  If I have my bearings correct, the latest aerial view from Google appears to show lines of lines of "stored" locomotives at Transnet Millsite loco depot: https://www.google.com/maps/@-26.1230569,27.7404068,473m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

 

However this was once part of a complex network of main-line railways, industrial systems and preservation activity, the rest of which has been cleared.  Locomotives had been stored or preserved at other locations in the Krugersdorp area, primarily Chamdor (sidings on a branch line running South-East from Krugersdorp) and the so-called "North Site" and "South Site" (sidings at the former Rand Estate Gold Mines system) all suffered heavily from the depredations of metal thieves and what could be salvaged was removed (and the remainder scrapped) by July 2014.  

 

(Chamdor didn't exist as a preservation site when I visited in 1995, but I underestimated the size of the complex, ran out of time and in the end saw very little of what was stored at Millsite).

 

In the meantime some of the items on the A-list (see my post #2, above) are being moved away from Millsite.  The first to go was 5B 723 (which appears in one of Pete's photos), which left for Bloemfontein towards the end of January.  It was followed by 14R 1759, not on the A-list, but apparently taken by the road haulier to Bloemfontein by mistake.  In all there are plans to relocate a further ten locos.

 

Last month's auction was never going to be the last and anything not on the A-list will be offered for preservation or scrap - potentially in the next couple of months.  As before, preservation groups will be trying to co-ordinate their efforts and target locomotives of historical importance.

 

One of the other locos illustrated in Pete's photos is class 10C no. 772.  This is one of a pair that retained their original boilers (the rest became 10CR).  Sister un-reboilered loco 776 is also at Millsite and is regarded as a higher priority as it is in better condition and retains its original boiler cladding.  No. 772 went into industrial service after withdrawal in 1973 (hence the wasp stripes on the buffer beam), where its cladding was replaced by something inferior.  I'm hoping that both might survive, as I first saw 772 after it had been set aside for possible preservation at Capital Park shed (Pretoria) in 1985 (with 776 behind).

 

 

(Latest information credited with thanks to South African Railway News)

 

[Edited to remove an unwanted emoticon and add photo]

[EddieB]

The next auction is set to close on Tuesday (15th March).  It includes all the unsold steam locomotive lots from the previous auction (clearly Transnet are trying to sell to enthusiast groups rather than for scrap), some electric locomotives (some previously unsold) and a treasure trove of historic coaching stock - most of which has been allowed to deteriorate over many, many years.

 

Full listing available here:

 

http://international.go-dove.com/en/event-19481/Transnet-Freight-Rail-Online-Auction-South-Africa-Sale-120

 

Imagine if that was once the contents of our national collection.