Not Quite Snape Goods Station, Suffolk

[justin1985]

For some time now I've been working on a 2mm FS shunting plank, on and off. So long, in fact, that I had designed and built the baseboard to 4'x1' for the London MRC layout competition, but of course I didn't make anywhere near enough progress to submit it to the competition last year. Progress stopped when I started a new job in the autumn, but I managed to get back to it during the Christmas break, so I thought I'd post the current state of it. 

 

The layout is based on the goods station at Snape Maltings, Suffolk, at the end of the short branch off the Great Eastern East Suffolk Line. Although the branch was very short indeed, and almost all of its traffic went to or from Garrett's maltings, a complete station was built with a goods shed, station master's house, and passenger style platform. No passenger service ever ran though (aside from railtours just before final closure).

 

 

Beyond the station the platform line and the goods shed line converged at a wagon turntable which connected with a further siding which ran through a rather grand gateway into the maltings complex. Another siding ran perpendicular to this to access the small wharf alongside the river at the end of the maltings. The geometry of the wagon turntable meant that no locomotive could physically access the lines beyond it - the lines converged as effectively a truncated turnout, with the turntable in place of switches. Rather than replicate this I've replaced it with a simple B6 turnout. 

 

 

The board is cobbled together from a mix of 3 and 6mm ply offcuts, and designed to fit within an old IKEA long, low, storage unit that is made of "Lack shelf" style egg-box structure material, which will serve as an safe and crucially flat and rigid storage box and base for it, as well as a fascia. Most of the construction is simply using blocks of pine batten and Gorilla Glue, occasionally reinforced with screws. Its not the best bit of woodwork by a long way, but its much more square than anything I've put together before! No progress on the "fiddle yard" though - I've left about 6" or so, and I'm imagining a lowered hardboard surface for cassettes made from perspex and aluminium angle to slide around on. 

 

 

I've made a start on track laying, based on a template I just about managed to put together in Templot (and then adjusted and tweaked by cutting and sticking the paper). I printed duplicates of the turnout templates and constructed them using primarily Easitrac sleeper strip and chairs, but also a "belt and braces" amount of PCB sleepers and chairplates anchoring every piece of rail after earlier experiments of pure Easitrack had been very fragile, and even with the recommended 4 or so PCB sleepers had been difficult to adjust. The turnout closest to the "fiddle yard" is a second attempt! The third turnout, which leads to a small headshut, has been built but not yet stuck down.

 

 

The track laid so far seems to work, and my J94 trundles back and forth through the turnouts relatively happily, even without the weight of its body, as does a Dapol cl.73 electro-diesel with turned down wheels. Only the fiddle yard end turnout has a proper mechanism attached to it so far though. I used one of the Easitrac cam-based TOUs for this with wire droppers to move the switches. The 0.25mm wire recommended in the "Track" book seemed much too thin and springy to actually work, so I used 0.5mm nickel silver bent up using pliers - even this needed a lot of tweaking, and some aggressive bending over of the wires under the TOU to keep the blades tight against the stock rails. The TOU is worked by a piano wire which is threaded through a standard maplin slide switch, constrained with the remains of choc-block electrical connectors. 

 

 

I wasn't particularly happy with the wire droppers, so for the turnout at the other end (which is all PCB, as it will be buried under paving) I have used one of the other techniques described in "Track" - a filed down brass bolt head soldered to each switch rail. I built a TOU from sliding plastic section with brass tube soldered to PCB offcuts attached, as per another suggestion in the book, but I think the inner plastic section I used was a bit thin, and I couldn't really get the uprights to stay anchored at the right angle with the suggested bolt, so I glued it solid ... at what turned out to be the wrong angle. Then I saw the new 3D printed TOU in the Association shop, and have ordered several of those, and I'm planning to adapt one with the brass tube rather than wire droppers. Currently waiting for the shop order to arrive!

 

I've worked up scale plans for the station building in CAD, which I'm planning to build in card with scalescenes papers. Some custom windows will be required though, and I'm not sure whether to etch or beg some laser cutting (or even improvise with strips of sticky label) for that. No work on the maltings facade or goods shed yet though. I will use the GER lightweight buffer stop from Chris Higgs' new etches in the shop for the end of the headshunt siding - no idea whether its correct, but it is nice!

 

 

Any suggestions gratefully received! Hopefully posting on here will help to keep me motivated to keep making progress!

 

Justin

 

 

 

[queensquare]

Looks to be the perfect sort of project to get started in 2FS, it's now on my followed list.

Are you at St Albans this weekend Justin, there looks like being a very strong 2mm presence. Make yourself known if you are.

 

Jerry

[justin1985]

Thanks Jerry! I will be at St Albans on the Saturday, and possibly also see you at Tim's later in the day - I've been roped into helping lack track in the CF goods yard.

 

Justin

[2mmMark]

The real Snape was operated by the loco propelling all trains from the junction and then once in the yard, there was the assistance of a shunting tractor, presumably a horse in earlier years.

 

I've worked up a design for an L-shaped layout of Snape, taking in the yard and the maltings, with a small adjustment to the track plan to make it feasible to operate on loco haulage. The plan is to have BR locos bringing the freight stock in and then transferred across to the Maltings, where an industrial loco randomly bumps them around logically distributes them around the facility.

 

I've got a good set of photos of the area taken in 2006 if they are of any help.  I'll stick them on my tablet and you can have a look at them at Tim's.

 

Very promising project!  Pleasing to see another BR(GE) project appearing.

 

My preference for turnout operation is to make the tiebar and operating mechanism as rigid and robust as possible, so the blades are held snugly against the stock rails. Then I allow for lost/excess motion in the movement mechanism. 

 

Mark

[justin1985]

Thanks for the notes on operation Mark. I'll definitely be interested to see the pictures on Saturday. I've based my drawings of the station building on the floorplan from OS mastermap and elevations from pictures on Flickr etc ... Then I noticed that the chimney must have been rebuilt relatively recently - the original had the ornate "bridge" between the stacks.

 

I'm happy for it just to pootle back and forth rearranging a rake of wagons using the (invented) loop. I was really just looking for a compact rural terminus - the maltings themselves have ended up as little more than a scenic break. A light railway style passenger service may yet appear ...

 

My preference for turnout operation is to make the tiebar and operating mechanism as rigid and robust as possible, so the blades are held snugly against the stock rails. Then I allow for lost/excess motion in the movement mechanism.

 

Mark

That's definitely a more appealing approach. I'm hoping the bolt heads combined with tube inserted into 3D printed TOU will do the trick in that regard, perhaps with lighter wire (the 0.5mm nickel silver?) With an omega loop for the final linkage from the electrical switch to the TOU to take up any over-throw.

 

Justin

[2mmMark]

This is how I did the "TOUs" on Burwell Fen.  A brass plate with some K&K square brass tube soldered onto it and then the slider is the next smaller size slidiing in the plate.  The tiebar is sprung one way by the microswitch and held the other way by the pushrod, the operating knob is simply pushed and held in a small hook.  In practice, you can operate the points by twisting the knob. The pushrod is 3/6" brass rod, running in sections of K&S tube soldered to mounting plates.  Massively overengineered to operate a 2mm turnout but it's lasted over 20 years without a single failure.

 

Microswitch not under compression

 

Microswitch under compression

 

Operating knob showing the bent wire catch

 

Hope the photos make it clear.

 

The tiebar is a 4mm PCB sleeper which entirely fills the space between 2 point sleepers.  Painted track colour, it's not too obvious. A pin from the TOU goes up through the baseboard to the tiebar. You can see it in this picture. The rails are held to the tiebar by bent-over Peco track pins, these are a bit obvious in this picture but less so in reality.

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[queensquare]

Thanks Jerry! I will be at St Albans on the Saturday, and possibly also see you at Tim's later in the day - I've been roped into helping lack track in the CF goods yard.

Justin

Excellent news, will look forward to that.

 

Regarding TOUs, you will find there are nearly as many designs as there are active members! I'll show you mine at the weekend, I'm very much with Mark in that I like it to be simple, robust and with any slack taken up underneath

 

Jerry

[nick_bastable]

nice project, I have used the new TOU on the latest project and they work well however to keep the blades level I added a  chairplate to each blade to slide between sleepers and keep the blades from springing up.

 

Will watch with interest 

[Ian Morgan]

Justin,

 

The goods yard at Winchester was built at right angles to the main line, and was originally accessed via turntables and shunted with horses. The turntables were later replaced by a very tight curve, which severely limited the types of loco that could shunt the yard. So, there is a precedent for your layout.

 

The 2mm Scale Association website does not yet include any photos or instructions for the new TOU, so here is a photo to let you know what is coming.

 

 

The tubes (syringe needles) that come with it are about 1mm outside diameter, but you should be able to drill out the holes in the tiebar to about 2mm diameter. Note, the distance between the tubes is adjustable, and fixed with the screw, which should make installation easier. Good luck with them,

 

Ian Morgan

Hampshire

[bécasse]

Someone made a very convincing model of Snape in 3mm scale about 50 years ago! It was written up in the Model Railway News at the time. IIRC the owner had had to build a J17 to work it rather than the prototypical J15 simply because it was impossible to shoehorn the commercial motors available at that time into a 3mm scale model of a J15 - miniature motors have come on a bit since then!

[Izzy]

Interesting to note that when Ipswich Shed became all-diesel in 1959 one J15 was retained just to work the Snape Goods until closure in 1960, being the only loco type with the axle loading allowing it to cross the river bridge. I have also read somewhere that the station dispatched more sugar beet than any other on the GE section.

 

Izzy

[2mmMark]

Thanks for the notes on operation Mark. I'll definitely be interested to see the pictures on Saturday. I've based my drawings of the station building on the floorplan from OS mastermap and elevations from pictures on Flickr etc ... Then I noticed that the chimney must have been rebuilt relatively recently - the original had the ornate "bridge" between the stacks.

 

I'm happy for it just to pootle back and forth rearranging a rake of wagons using the (invented) loop. I was really just looking for a compact rural terminus - the maltings themselves have ended up as little more than a scenic break. A light railway style passenger service may yet appear ...

 

 

I would encourage you to end the headshunt with a wagon turntable in front of a building, like at Snape. It'll really capture the atmosphere of the area.  It wouldn't be too hard to make the turntable work, it only has to rotate through 90 degrees, which you could easily achieve with a lever & pushrod mechanism. You could then move wagons independently using a neodymium magnet under the baseboard acting on the steel wheel axles of Association wheelsets.

 

Mark

[bécasse]

There was a drawing of a GER wagon turntable in Model Railways somewhen about 1970.

[justin1985]

I would encourage you to end the headshunt with a wagon turntable in front of a building, like at Snape. It'll really capture the atmosphere of the area.  It wouldn't be too hard to make the turntable work, it only has to rotate through 90 degrees, which you could easily achieve with a lever & pushrod mechanism. You could then move wagons independently using a neodymium magnet under the baseboard acting on the steel wheel axles of Association wheelsets.

 

Mark

Actually, if I moved the frontage of the maltings further back from where I had imagined it, this should be possible. I had planned on leaving enough space inside the maltings to be able to reach in through a hole at the back and swap wagons or insert/remove loads under the maltings roof. However that would be very fiddly. Squeezing in a wagon turntable and perpendicular track in front should work, and would probably add more interest as you say Mark.

 

Any suggestions for a suitable pivot? Would just a bolt attached to the underside of a PCB table running through a plate under the surface with a few washers, and stops, do the job?

 

Justin

[CF MRC]

Justin

Takes a look at model aircraft ailoron pivots and cranks for any mechanism. It's what we used fir the front turnout on the NLR electric lines. Pretty cheap and very reliable & adjustable.

 

Tim

[bécasse]

Any suggestions for a suitable pivot? Would just a bolt attached to the underside of a PCB table running through a plate under the surface with a few washers, and stops, do the job?

 

I have very successfully used 4mm driving axle bearings for similar purposes. It is possible to buy 2mm I/D ⅛inch O/D top hat bearings which sit perfectly in the more common 1/8inch I/D bearings. A bolt can be passed through the centre of the 2mm I/D bearing to hold the whole thing together. Interalia Branchlines sell suitable bearings.

[bécasse]

There was a drawing of a GER wagon turntable in Model Railways somewhen about 1970.

It was in the April 1973 issue of Model Railways

[JohnBS]

Actually, if I moved the frontage of the maltings further back from where I had imagined it, this should be possible. I had planned on leaving enough space inside the maltings to be able to reach in through a hole at the back and swap wagons or insert/remove loads under the maltings roof. However that would be very fiddly. Squeezing in a wagon turntable and perpendicular track in front should work, and would probably add more interest as you say Mark.

Any suggestions for a suitable pivot? Would just a bolt attached to the underside of a PCB table running through a plate under the surface with a few washers, and stops, do the job?

Justin

Justin,

A very good source for pivots and plates is an old computer Hard Disk Drive. I seem to accumulate these as other people have mice and I never like to leave the HDD in the computer when it goes for recycling. Be warned though, don't use the HDD motor unless you know how to modify the timing or you will have a turntable that rotates at 30,000 rpm!

John

[garethashenden]

It was in the April 1973 issue of Model Railways

Justin, The MRC library should have this.

[GER_Jon]

Justin

if you have access - John Watling published an article in GER Journal 93 including a drawing of a turntable at Sudbury plus some good photos of of other turntables.

Regarding the buffer stop I think a similar one was at Tollesbury pier station - its a poor photo but looks to have the front suport curve.

Jon

[justin1985]

Many thanks for all of the suggestions and references. I am indeed a GERS member, and have a copy of the journal back issues disc. The article looks really useful and I've printed out the diagrams. It is the single track version that I would be required for Snape, so at least that part of it should be relatively simple to construct!

 

Tim, do you have a picture of the kind of aileron pivot that you mentioned? I can't seem to find much online. (or were you referring to point mechanisms?) I discussed the wagon turntable with a few people, including Jerry, at St Albans today and I'm leaning towards the 4mm loco bearings. What about something to locate the table at the right alignments? My first thought is just notches in the surround and some kind of slightly sprung phosphor-bronze strip set up.

 

The 3D printed turnout operating mechanisms arrived during last week, and I put one together to operate the turnout that I'd already installed with the filed down bolt heads as droppers. The TOU arrives like this:

 

 

Its a very efficient design, clearly arranged to take up as little space, and use as little material, as possible for printing. The disadvantage of this is that its a little tricky to adapt to a different design of dropper connection. I drilled new 1.9mm holes such that they included the printed dimples for the 1mm holes, but were further inboard to avoid risking punching through the sides. However this meant that I also had to carve a little off the inside face of the base of the thing - I compensated by filling the hole in the base with plasticard. I forced the 2mm OD brass tube through these holes to accept the bolt threads.

 

The other "gotcha" was that as the intended wire droppers run under the stock rails, and therefore come down vertically at considerably wider than track gauge, but the filed down bolts sit inside the switch rails, and are therefore at less than track gauge, the closest setting for the screw-adjustable gauge setting was too wide, so I substituted one of the provided screws for a thinner, longer screw, and just screwed them together through the central shaft itself. I flooded the joint with cyano once I was happy with the spacing and operation too. 

 

 

The throw needed to operate the TOU is less than that of the electrical switches I've been using, so it took a lot of careful adjustment of the piano wire to allow it enough travel to throw sufficiently far to still operate the switch while not stressing the TOU. I did get there though, and it works without leaving anything in tension. Still, I think for the third and final turnout on this project I'll use one of the Easitrac cam based TOUs as the throw required on the closest hole on the lever seems to match the throw of the switches (which I've already prepared and wired up). I'll save the other 3D printed TOUs for future projects and remember to use them with microswitches rather than electrical switching via the manual linkage. 

 

I also picked up a DG electromagnet from MSE at the St Albans Show today - I hadn't actually planned locations for them (or made any holes or mounting arrangements before starting track laying - so will need to factor in locations where I'll need them. They they only had one left, although I do have a massive reel of thin enamelled wire bought for wiring up surface mount LEDs - more than I'll ever need for that purpose - so I'm half tempted to wind my own electromagnet around a steel bolt. Is it worth it, as I have the stuff, or more trouble than its worth?

 

Justin

[Ian Morgan]

Justin,

 

as you have already gone down the route of manual operation of the points, have you considered the use of small rare earth magnets, with a mechanical setup to move the magnet up under the track, or away from it? I have found them much more reliable than electromagnets, and saving in wiring, switches and high current power supplies.

 

Ian Morgan

Hampshire

[Izzy]

I was wondering if there needed to be something to 'hold' a wagon on the turntable as it rotated to prevent them rolling off. RE magnets have already been mentioned with regard to uncoupling, and it may be possible to use the design I was introduced to by Stuart Bailey, a RE rising and falling in brass tube not only for uncoupling where required but as the pivot for the turntable, with the RE locking the wagon on it when raised - steel axles. An outer tube running on the inner magnet one would carry the turntable. Fixing the turntable position might be done using stop blocks underneath in combination with a radius plate.

 

Izzy

[DLT]

Interesting project Justin, I shall be following.

Cheers, Dave.

[2mmMark]

Justin,

 

as you have already gone down the route of manual operation of the points, have you considered the use of small rare earth magnets, with a mechanical setup to move the magnet up under the track, or away from it? I have found them much more reliable than electromagnets, and saving in wiring, switches and high current power supplies.

 

Ian Morgan

Hampshire

 

I'd wholeheartedly second this. The DG electromagnets are high current devices and require a fairly meaty transformer.  Rare earth magnets are powerful enough to operate through a fair depth of baseboard. 

 

I posted my method of using them here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52042-tucking-mill/page-8&do=findComment&comment=1725281, as used on British Oak.  Getting rid of the uncoupling magnet transformer means that British Oak just needs a simple lightweight wall-wart to power the controller.

 

 

They they only had one left, although I do have a massive reel of thin enamelled wire bought for wiring up surface mount LEDs - more than I'll ever need for that purpose - so I'm half tempted to wind my own electromagnet around a steel bolt. Is it worth it, as I have the stuff, or more trouble than its worth?

 

Justin

 

 

Be careful, you might end up making the steel bolt permanently magnetised.  I've never wound my own coils but I believe people who have used thick nails which have a greater iron content.

 

Mark