Mr Grumpy Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 ........ Am I capable of doing so....the £200 plus questionI had the same dilemma. I wanted to build a DJH class 47. I had reasonable experience of building with etched brass, and a smidgen of white metal components.I reasoned that if: A, I splashed out a considerable sum of money to buy the kit, B: commissioned some one to build a couple of split axle Cardin shaft bogies, costing almost the same as the kit, C: posting the build for all to see, D: failure was not an option! Once I got my head around the fact that unless I done something reasonably daft I wasn't going to melt anything and basked in positive comments, my confidence was boosted and I really enjoyed the build (although 3-4 hours work left). I did get some excellent advice, and was informed when the Serck louvres were installed incorrectly. But, I really felt I upped my game because people were interested to watch my progress! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 How does this one from DJH come as far as being dimensionally correct? It is one of those odd looking locos that oozes character. I used to have the Ian Beattie RM drawing of it, and I think the kit is based around that. If there was ever another kit producer who might have tackled the subject in this scale, I think Alan Gibson might have had a go, since it would have fitted into his Midland designs, alongside his 7F 2-8-0 kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 tender sides reduced, and pleased to say...flow into the cowl....the std Caprotti mentioned is photographed alongside. This Djh kit had a number of etched parts such as cab. The prominent pipe under the boiler was not shown but discovered on a brilliant thread...can't remember author than duly added to my own model...improving it no end in the process..more soon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 For those who may be new to my model photos...the scene above is my loft....the main beam still keeping the roof n acts as both paint stand and display mount....the layout is my rendition of Water Orton....currently being retired hence facials lyin haphazard on the floor...display case behind for my visiting locos such as A1/1 Gt Northern...a millholme A2/2 which I have " improved" as per a very early article by Tony Wright...albeit his views on this kit are not complimentary....it has a portescap motor....inherent weight owing to its whitemetal body and is a beautiful runner taking rakes of coaches around even my worst unintended inclines. I love it and it's other "foreign " counterparts going through my old village station....causing the 4 mm trainspotters to be beside themselves with joy at such a rare cop! I use this iPod to photo and am aware of its shortcomings...I will however endeavour to illustrate any construction point that may assist any potential builder, with better clearer photos. I have sourced the photos mentioned, including a rear view of tender by DJ Norton...its on webpage...showing the reduced tender sides in 1949. There is another photo of it resting at Saltley....just. Down the road from Water Orton ...on one such trip from Derby works...having gone through my old village in the process Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 construction of tender well on the way. I've just had it being pulled around my layout by of all things a Heljan class 128.....anyway runs straight and true. One perplexing moment though.....on placing on track it caused an electrical fault. The reason the wheel rims were touching an inner white metal lip. The wheels wereremoved....grinding attachment into dremel...lip reduced...wheels reinserted no more shorting. I now work to OO.....I'm a bit surprised by this as I would have expected this when I worked in EM...oh well rather pleased at this stage....pride before a fall possibly. I will be fitting my preferred coupling small Bachmann tension lock, although I don't nvisage this loco pulling anything . I might though in the future just have it pull a freight .....or two.. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Is the back end of the tender tilted? Viewed from the side, the top lip looks further out than the base.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2016 There was an N gauge layout in the 1970s that portrayed the line, it was featured in the Railway Modeller. Diseasels though (25s?). Looking forward to seeing this build. John Allison IIRC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Is the back end of the tender tilted? Viewed from the side, the top lip looks further out than the base.... Ivan yes fitted,don't know if an optical illusion but will check tomorrow when I venture back into my loft...thermals and all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 On the subject of checking just reread one of my earlier posts....for retiring read rewiring.....for facials read facias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlswood Nob Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 G'day all I seem to remember that Big Bertha was trialled hauling a freight train, but must have been a failure as nothing more was heard. The LNER Garratt banker was also tried on freight haulage over Woodhead, but wasn't a success. I guess the fireman was pleased with not having to fire the 56sq ft grate for too long. Earlswood nob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I seem to remember that Big Bertha was trialled hauling a freight train, but must have been a failure as nothing more was heard Yes it was tried on the Toton Brent coal trains but it was unsuitable. If you look at the design, it was not intended for power outputs over a long period of time but rather short. intense bursts of power, just the sort of thing for banking trains over 2 plus miles of 1 in 37. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 G'day all I seem to remember that Big Bertha was trialled hauling a freight train, but must have been a failure as nothing more was heard. The LNER Garratt banker was also tried on freight haulage over Woodhead, but wasn't a success. I guess the fireman was pleased with not having to fire the 56sq ft grate for too long. Earlswood nob not being too familiar with big berthas story I think she was trialled an a freight. I don't know if she as a failure in that role or the influence of the all powerful midland operating dept overrode the loco dept. It has always bemused me that the SDJR 280s were not utilised on their railway of origin yet appear to have been used on the S and D with some success.. I have done further work today on the tender...it is square ...we'll it's sides and ends were...the rear tender spectacle plate wasn't though...now resoldered in correctly...the little whitemetal steps on the tender sides by the cab opening have been replaced by new fettled n/ s ones after reduced one of the former to a blob with my soldering iron.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Thanks John your reply landed before I had finished my own...makes sense apologies, to the much maligned Midland operating dept... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 not being too familiar with big berthas story I think she was trialled an a freight. I don't know if she as a failure in that role or the influence of the all powerful midland operating dept overrode the loco dept. It has always bemused me that the SDJR 280s were not utilised on their railway of origin yet appear to have been used on the S and D with some success.. I have done further work today on the tender...it is square ...we'll it's sides and ends were...the rear tender spectacle plate wasn't though...now resoldered in correctly...the little whitemetal steps on the tender sides by the cab opening have been replaced by new fettled n/ s ones after reduced one of the former to a blob with my soldering iron.... I believe the 0-10-0 was tried on coal trains on the midland main line with out to much success and I think I recall one of the problems was the short travel valve gear which great for giving power to push at relative low speeds for short periods was not suited to long runs on the main line. I know your going to want to pull the odd freight just to see what it looks like but I would be tempted to just have a three link coupling on the back end and if I did want to pull use a "match" truck like a brake van or mineral wagon fitted with a coupling hook at one end 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Excellent idea....not least fitting a RTR coupling will be awkward....three link it will be 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Really pleased three link fitted to both Berthas tender and ex airfix PO coal wagon ( in BR grey) . A brass goalpost temporarily fitted to front of tender and the whole small test train pulled around my layout by my new Hornby D16... Will photo this strange combo tomorrow just for the record.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 as promised the test train trundles towards Water Orton station and the Minworth Road overbridge 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Whilst generally happy with the castings, this kit shows its age . I am referring to the level of etched detail that more modern offerings supply as standard. I have been studying the rear of the tender in photos. The tender steps on the rear panel are certainly incorrect for a BR days...only one either side being represented when photos show4 two either side. In addition there are no lamp irons or spectacle plate protection covers I have just ordered from mainly trains two etches one for the plate covers..the other for the lamp irons..still pondering how to make the steps. I have also decided to power this by a mashima motor and high level gearbox. I intend to contact Chris there tomorrow and make the order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 .... I have just ordered from mainly trains two etches one for the plate covers..the other for the lamp irons...... Do be careful with these. Some of the MT etches are decidedly oversize for 4mm scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlswood Nob Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Good morning all I find that the Mainly Trains grill etch is fine, but the lamp irons seem rather large. I have geared my LNER Worsboro' banker to 80:1 with High level gearboxes. It will push anything and everything. I think the largest possible Mashima driving through 80:1 would give a powerful loco. I would probably use a drive extender to make the the middle axle the driven one. The boiler would have plenty of room for added lead. Earlswood nob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Dear Earlswood , you have added to a bit of a dilemma I am currently mulling over. The problem, do I gear it as you have done with your loco as per its prototype function. In reality my loco will only travel light engine through my chosen location. It will need to be free running and have enough play in the drivers as to negotiate my tightest corners point work. I was going to opt for the hi flier mashima 1430 combination. On the subject of the prototype, Bertha appears to always be facing up the incline, towards Brum. I appreciate this is obvious hence the big headlight on its smokebox. I was just pondering if it ever got turned and if so on what turntable. The progression from this would be on travelling to Derby it would be loco first...did it follow that the return journey was always tender first so that arrived back at Bromsgrove facing the correct direction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 She would have always faced up the bank not just for the head light but to keep plenty of water over the fusible plug on the fire box top. As to turning there would have been plenty of places around the Birmingham area where it could be turned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlswood Nob Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 G'day all Well 46256, its your railway, so you run what you like. If you plan to run freight trains with your Big Bertha, a Hiflier 54:1 would be suitable. It's what I use in my heavy freight locos (LNER O4's etc). I use the following as a guideline for gearboxes. Express 30:1 or 40:1 Passenger & mixed traffic 40:1 Freight 54:1 Trip freight & shunting 60:1 Pure shunting & banking 80:1 Dock & hump shunting 108:1 These ratios are not cast in stone and are varied on occasion. I get a buzz out of my LNER T1 humpshunter creeping along, and my dockshunters (Y7 & Y8) going even slower. When I had my first spell of model building 45 years ago, Alex Bowie (former editor of MRC) said to me; "Anyone can build a loco to go fast, but skill is needed to make it run slowly and smoothly". Now we have the choice of many different ratios with the High Level boxes, it is relatively easy to build a smooth slow running loco. A thought has just occurred to me is that; if a banker is not coupled to the train then it is liable to fall behind the train if it is geared to be slower, unless DCC is fitted. I don't have DCC, so it's a problem that I will have to cope with when I build a proper layout. I find this thread interesting as I intend to build a model of the Big Bertha in the future. Earlswood nob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thank you both to Steve and yourself Earlswood, it is just this kind of correspondence I was hoping for ( and indeed other contributors) when I set out on this ....I have decided on the 54.1 ratio...hillier combo just about to make the call.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Good morning all I find that the Mainly Trains grill etch is fine, but the lamp irons seem rather large.... I found the lamp irons were almost big enough for "O" gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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