SUNDERLAND NORTH DOCK, BANK TOP YARD AND SHED

[tom shaw]

Hi everyone,

 

I’ve just joined RM Web but I’ve been a railway modeller for over 40 years. I’ve never fully finished a layout but I’m determined to with my latest plan, I’ve started this thread as a record of progress, to concentrate my thoughts and, hopefully, to receive encouragement and advice on various matters.

 

Layout requirements and objectives:

1. The layout will be 00 with C&L flexible track, handbuilt pointwork, using C&L components to 00-SF standards (through the common crossing).
2. DCC control using at least two NEC powercabs.
3. Should be transportable, I would like to exhibit eventually (if it all works and proves interesting enough to others) but I also like to work on individual boards in the house, the layout will normally live in the garage which has been floored and boarded out etc.
4. The baseboards of an existing layout will be reclaimed for re-use, these were built five years ago and are still in good condition. There are 10 baseboards forming a layout 4.6m by 2.25m with an operating well in the middle. The front 4 boards will form the viewing area.
5. The layout will be a fictitious location but will depict a reception yard and small engine shed serving coal staiths, a shipyard and a quayside. I have supposed that Sunderland North Dock was developed to rival the South Dock facility to handle coal, fish, oil, timber, general goods and steel. So mostly freight but I may add the odd boat train to provide for passengers to and from the Baltic.
6. Minimum radius will be 750mm (approx 30 inches) but transition curves will be used on the viewing section.
7. The buildings, mostly in the shed area, will be drawn from various locations in the North East such as Blyth, Hartlepool and Tyne Dock.
8. The period modelled will be 1964 to 66 allowing the use of both steam and green diesels, predominantly Q6’s, WD’s and EE type 3’s (I was born in 1959 so can just remember steam at Tyne Dock). I would like an alternative period of around 1970 using blue diesels (some green with full yellow ends, a very attractive livery).
9. DG couplings to be used with electro-magnetic uncoupling.
10. Points will be controlled by tortoise point motors via conventional DC supply. I would like a row of switches, reminiscent of signal box levers, to control points, signals and uncoupling magnets with a separate signal box diagram so the “box” has to be learnt.
11. Static grass to be used (I have not used this medium before so things could get messy).
12. Believable operation, eg full rakes to go to staiths with empties coming back (achieved by using dedicated full and empty rakes).

Trackplan (scenic side)

 

Signal box diagram

 

Progress to date:

1. The existing layout is being stripped down so the baseboards can be re-used.
2. Suitable stock has been gathered over the years, mainly ready to run but some kits. DCC decoders have been fitted to most engines and some have sound. All stock is fitted with DG couplings and is representative of items that could be seen in the north east during the period modelled. Stock includes about 40 21 ton hoppers of Dapol/Airfix/Hornby/Parkside origin which will form the basis of the mineral operations on the layout, additional Parkside variants will be built to give three or four rakes.
3. The points for the shed area have been built on the workbench and just need painting and wiring connected. These have been built using C&L plastic sleepers but I have since discovered plywood sleepers. I have started building the points for the yard using plywood and have just about finished three.
4. A gantry type signal box, based on Green Lane (Tyne Dock) is 90% built. The sides and ends for the engine shed, based on West Hartlepool, are built and awaiting windows, assembly and a roof. Various yard offices and huts were built for previous layouts and will be re-used.

Signal box based on Green Lane (Tyne Dock). Roof and guttering needs finishing.

 

I'll update as I progress, what does anyone think ?

Tom

Edited March 20, 2016 by tom shaw

[Tangoman69]

Tom,

This looks an interesting project and one that i will follow.

Are you considering any Tyne Dock 9F's and associated ore wagons, or is that too much out of area?

Regards,

Karl

[tom shaw]

Tom,

This looks an interesting project and one that i will follow.

Are you considering any Tyne Dock 9F's and associated ore wagons, or is that too much out of area?

Regards,

Karl

Hi Karl,

I have a Bachmann 9F which I'm converting to a Tyne Dock variant, one of many things on the workbench. They were often used on mineral and general traffic when there was no iron ore ship in Tyne Dock so I can justify having one. Can I justify 9 iron ore wagons - no, does that mean I won't build 9 eventually - no.

 

One of my earliest but vague memories as a child was standing next to what I now know as a 9F, my dad's friend was a 9F driver and we lived a quarter of a mile from the shed. Imagine that as a child of 5 or 6, so I had to have one.

 

Tom

[Tangoman69]

Tom,

My wife if from the North East and my Brother in law & I frequently mountain bike the route from Consett to Washington.

It was my brother in law who got me interested in the Consett-Tyne dock route and its unique rolling stock.

 

Good luck with your venture

 

Karl

[Brian D]

Hi Tom,

This is right up my street so am now following.  My own early memories of railways were centred on Easington Colliery watching J27/Q6/WD headed coal trains serving the colliery and taking the coal south to Hartlepool with the odd express going through but mainly dmus forming the coastal Middlesborough/Newcastle passenger trains in my era.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you progress.

Regards,

Brian.

[Alcanman]

Looks like an interesting project. Always good to see to NE layouts.

 

Here's a pic of Sunderland roundhouse at the end of steam 1967. A trio of J27s. I'll try to dig out more pics later.

 

 

[tom shaw]

Looks like an interesting project. Always good to see to NE layouts.

 

Here's a pic of Sunderland roundhouse at the end of steam 1967. A trio of J27s. I'll try to dig out more pics later.

 

 

Sunderland shed 1967.jpg

Thanks Alcanman,

I'm looking forward to more pics of the area. Here's my low releif roundhouse off the previous layout.

 

Tom

[60091]

Hi Tom

This looks like a good idea and an interesting location to model so I'll be following your progress.

I was thinking you might be packing a lot of track onto the baseboards but with an area of approx 14ft x 2ft6" it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm always interested to see layouts based in the North East and the Sunderland area in particular. My own earliest memories are similar to Brian Ds and although I usually model 1980s-90s, I've always been a big admirer of Ian Carrs' photographs. They're a fantasic record of steam in the NE and particularly around his home town.

No problem having a couple of 9Fs on shed. There are plenty of photos of them on minerals working Washington-Brockley Whins etc.... and don't forget the WDs!

In reality, in the 1960s, the North Dock branch trip seems to have been a J27 with a few 21t and 16t minerals and occasionally a bolster C/D or maybe plate wagons. Good to see you've been stocking up on 21t hoppers... you can't have too many of them if you're planning to increase traffic levels on the branch.

 

Good luck

 

Regards

Alan

Edited January 15, 2016 by 60091

[tom shaw]

Thanks Alan,

I was was born in Brockley Whins and spent a lot of time spotting on Boldon Colliery station late 60's and early 70's. My alternative history for North Dock means it is a lot bigger and will be a lot busier than the real one.

 

Hands up if you knew a certain I.K Brunel engineered the North Dock facility !

 

Tom

[Brian D]

Thanks Alan,

I was was born in Brockley Whins and spent a lot of time spotting on Boldon Colliery station late 60's and early 70's. My alternative history for North Dock means it is a lot bigger and will be a lot busier than the real one.

 

Hands up if you knew a certain I.K Brunel engineered the North Dock facility !

 

Tom

Hands up  ! Yes.  My career in Civil & Structural engineering was inspired by IKB among others and I have a couple of books about him wherein there is mention of the Monkwearmouth docks project concurrent with the Thames Tunnel - he was a busy chap.

Regards,

Brian.

[Alcanman]

Here's a couple of more pics of Sunderland shed on 2nd September 1967.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you're using West Hartlepool as the basis of your shed , here's a pic, once again on 2nd Sept 1967.

 

A pair of WDs, 90627 & 90360

 

 

Nice to see you're using South Blyth as the basis of your coaling stage. My 'neck of the woods' but I don't have a pic of the coaling stage.

Next best is the similar structure at North Blyth with the bonus of a very rare B1!

 

 

Mal

[D9020 Nimbus]

There were a couple of books by Ian S Carr featuring photographs of railways in the Sunderland area published by Tyne and Wear Museums some time ago, covering the time roughly from the early 1960s up to the 1980s. Might prove very useful if you could get hold of them.

Edited January 16, 2016 by D9020 Nimbus

[michaelp]

Looking forward to more on this one.

 

Michael

[North Eastern]

Here is some pictures of South Blyth Shed from 1964 to closure in 1969. Some are from Cecil J Sanderson and the others are from my collection. Feel free to use them to help you constructing your coaling stage.

 

Regards

 

Chris

Edited January 16, 2016 by North Eastern

[60091]

There were a couple of books by Ian S Carr featuring photographs of railways in the Sunderland area published by Tyne and Wear Museums some time ago, covering the time roughly from the early 1960s up to the 1980s. Might prove very useful if you could get hold of them.

There was an original Railways of Sunderland with orange lettering on the cover and a reprint with green. There was also a book of Ians' photos called Railscenes Around Sunderland.

I think photos on the branch must be quite rare. The only photos in these books show J27s with 1-2 coal wagons from Crowders coal depot at Roker... probably the last revenue earning traffic on the branch? Another shot shows a J27 alongside some Gresley coaches. Apparently, in the 60s, the branch was used to store redundant stock. One caption mentions a rumour that on one occasion this stock was delivered by an A4.

 

I think it was mentioned in the Railway Magazine.. sadly Ian Carr died in February last year.

 

Alan

[jacko]

Great photos. Love the photo looking out of the chute to the flats. I used to go out with a girl from one of those. Think they've all been demolished now - it's been a few years since I was last in that part of Blyth (born there BTW) . A couple of years ago at Modelrail Scotland, there was an N gauge model of Blyth station and shed. Brought back fond memories of playing on the station roof before it was knocked down. 

[60091]

Hi Tom

I was looking again at your plans - Your idea for the curves are similar to my own when building a layout - a gentle transition on the scenic area and then tighter once out of site round into the fiddle yard. However, will the J27 and Q6 kits get round the 30" radius curves?

It's a real shame these two classic NE steam locos still aren't available RTR.

 

Alan

Edited January 16, 2016 by 60091

[tom shaw]

Thanks everyone for the comments and the great pics, these will prove very useful. I have the book of photo's of Sunderland by Ian Carr (Railscenes around Sunderland) as well as the Railways of Sunderland published by the Tyne and Wear Museum Service (the orange one) which features a lot of his work, sad to hear he died last year, where would we be without the people who recorded these the images.

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

Hi Tom

I was looking again at your plans - Your idea for the curves are similar to my own when building a layout - a gentle transition on the scenic area and then tighter once out of site round into the fiddle yard. However, will the J27 and Q6 kits get round the 30" radius curves?

It's a real shame these two classic NE steam locos still aren't available RTR.

 

Alan

Hi Alan,

Hornby have just announced they are producing a Q6 in 2016 (which probably means late 2017). Put me down for two or three. Now come on Bachmann, do a J27. My Q6 and J27 are Dave Alexander kits and have no problem with 30" curves as I've always used this as a minimum radius but I don't think the Q6 will handle anything less. I have just finished the Q6 but it is still in primer awaiting painting and weathering, at least it has a sound decoder fitted and works well. It only took about 7 years to get this far, not because of the kit (which is excellent) but because of my chronic short attention span.

 

The main thing I have to watch for with regard to the 30" minimum radius is the setting of the DG couplings, the buffing plate of which need to be proud enough of the buffers so the stock go around the curves but not so proud to make the gap between wagons unsightly. Everything is a compromise.

 

Tom

[micklner]

Q6 is due this year April ?

[New Haven Neil]

Looks an interesting project, Tom.  A hint of Chris Pendlenton's North Shields in there perhaps?  That new Q6 will inspire a lot of this sort of thing I would expect, just need a J27 or six now!

 

There is prospect for an amazing variety of stock there, besides dozens of 21 tonners, all sort of stuff for the shipyards?  I look forward to seeing it develop.

 

Is Chris still in the north-east?

 

Cheers,

 

Neil

[60091]

Hi Tom

Not sure if it's good news or bad news (for me) about the Q6...

Despite telling myself I'm now 99.9% comitted to N Gauge, I'm still hanging on to a small collection of 00. Just enough to put together a small NE based layout set either around 1960-67 or 1979-86.

The change over to N hasn't been cheap and now I'm going to find a RTR 00 Q6 irresistable.

 

I envy anyone with the skill to build kits. I was never brave enough to start building one. Over the years I've had two Nu Cast J27s and a Q6 but they never came out of the boxes and I ended up selling them on unbuilt.

 

North Shields was an inspiring layout which I was lucky enough to see at the Newcastle exhibition many years ago.

 

Alan

[tom shaw]

Hi Tom

Not sure if it's good news or bad news (for me) about the Q6...

Despite telling myself I'm now 99.9% comitted to N Gauge, I'm still hanging on to a small collection of 00. Just enough to put together a small NE based layout set either around 1960-67 or 1979-86.

The change over to N hasn't been cheap and now I'm going to find a RTR 00 Q6 irresistable.

 

I envy anyone with the skill to build kits. I was never brave enough to start building one. Over the years I've had two Nu Cast J27s and a Q6 but they never came out of the boxes and I ended up selling them on unbuilt.

 

North Shields was an inspiring layout which I was lucky enough to see at the Newcastle exhibition many years ago.

 

Alan

Hi Alan,

your only hope is that DJ models continue with their plan to produce a Q6 in N gauge. They have cancelled the OO version because of Hornby but have said they will still be doing the N version. Try to hang in there.

 

Tom

[Porcy Mane]

Is Chris still in the north-east?

 

 Near to the Newcastle to Carlisle Railway but nearer to Carlisle.

 

P

[Brian D]

Thanks everyone for the comments and the great pics, these will prove very useful. I have the book of photo's of Sunderland by Ian Carr (Railscenes around Sunderland) as well as the Railways of Sunderland published by the Tyne and Wear Museum Service (the orange one) which features a lot of his work, sad to hear he died last year, where would we be without the people who recorded these the images.

 

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

I picked up a great little book (booklet?) several years ago at Beamish entitled "Railways of East Durham" by Ken Hoole - a slim little volume of 72 pages but containing many interesting but b&w pictures, many of which showing the end of steam in the Sunderland area.  If not in your library it might be worth a look.

Regards,

Brian.