RMweb Premium Metropolitan H Posted February 17, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2016 Don't forget the Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore Railway (The only UK railway to include an "!" in its title). They had some rather nice open balcony bogie coaches - but they also had centre buffer couplers and side-skirts on their Hunslet 2-4-2T locos, there was no physical connection to any other railway and a certain amount of roadside / on road running. Regarding the WC&PR coaches, Les Darbyshire published a drawing in the late lamented MRN magazine back in the 1960s / 70s as part of the series of Stephens lines drawings. Regards Chris H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Don't forget that the W&U and the the WC&P caches were all specifically designed to be accessible from ground level "platforms". The ANDR coaches were exBarnum & Bailey Circus train stock and likewise had low level access. I assume the WNR has more or less normal height platforms. I'd suggest that the secret of plausible freelancing is to go for the ordinary rather than the extraordinary, but it's your railway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Regarding the WC&PR coaches, Les Darbyshire published a drawing in the late lamented MRN magazine back in the 1960s / 70s as part of the series of Stephens lines drawings. And available from the Colonel Stephens Society, along with a lot of Les' other drawings http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/colonel%20stephens%20society%20drawings%20service-35/index.html 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 "I'd suggest that the secret of plausible freelancing is to go for the ordinary rather than the extraordinary,....." A look in that Kidner book suggests that, when it came to minor railways, the extraordinary was ordinary. I've never seen those ADNR coaches before, and the idea of rolling-stock that ran away from a circus to join a railway is so good that I almost feel like building one in 7mm scale. K 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 There is a sort of Lambourn Valley Railway nature about this. Simon didn't mention that this charming view is of the Lambourn Valley saloon that was sold in 1904 to the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway, hence the accompanying GWR coaches. I don't know how long it survived. The other three composite coaches went to the Hundred of Manhood and Selsey Tramway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I was going to mention the Alexandra Newport and South Wales Docks and Railway myself. Now there's a interesting and rarely modelled railway. The mighty Midland also had some 'cowboy' type coaches for a while - one or two ended up as push-pull vehicles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Right, that does it! I'm now on the lookout for a good 0 scale tinplate "cowboy coach" to run as a PP. I know that one of the Spanish tinplate makers made some, to represent RENFE coaches of this kind, so they are out there to be found! BTW, the Midland Pullmans were probably the first American coaches in the UK, and the Midland had some "cowboy engines" too, Baldwin Moguls, in the early 1900s. K Edited February 18, 2016 by Nearholmer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) All these American style coaches that popped up all over the place on the more interesting British lines, is my excuse for my two Bachmann On30 coaches! They'll be trundling in and out of Cheapside Yard when I get back to track laying, and will hopefully appear on a future quirky British 7mm narrow gauge layout. Edited February 18, 2016 by BG John 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Deliciously quirky, John. When I add together the few examples of UK standard gauge verandah coaches of which I was aware with the very many more examples you have kindly shared, I realise that they were more common than I had imagined. Fascinating coaches with often fascinating histories. I haven't the heart to repaint the thing from scratch, as it seems like reversing what little forward progress I have made, so I took up Northroader's suggestion of painting the ventilators dark green.. I would say that this is a great improvement and I am duly grateful for this excellent suggestion. I await elaboration of his lining tips(!): 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Unwelcome-at-this-stage suggestion coming up: It struck me looking at it again, that one of the differences between the UK ones we've been looking at, and German practice, is panel size. I'm guessing that the German ones like this have steel sheet panels over a wooden frame, whereas the UK ones are panelled with slices of timber. So, by judicious application of micro strip, one could make the panel-size smaller. For example, a panel division either side of each window, and dividing each below-waist panel into two or three. Match-boarded ones are easier, because the whole world seems to have used match-boarding below the waist, to variable board widths, with the Swiss and Austrians specialising in really thin boards - maybe alpine trees grow taller and thinner than tropical hardwoods and sturdy Oaks/Eichen (I've forgotten what the French call oak). K PS: just remembered: chene, but I don't know how to type the accent. Edited February 18, 2016 by Nearholmer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Lining out? I reckon you can go too fiddly, so rather than succumbing to the temptation of picking out the top of all the panelling strips, just do the horizontical one below the windows? Then plastikard steps to reach the end platforms, even if you've got full height platforms, as per Lambourn Valley and Midland examples, buffers, and maybe something on the roof, lamps oil/ gas, and ventilators. On the idea of doing vertical match boarding, rather than individual strip, file down the sides to clear the destination board and strips off, then stick on some sheet, evergreen scale models vee groove gives a very neat job, although cost, at around £6 a sheet, rears its ugly head. Mr. Nearholmer, sir, I suppose the place to look for coarse scale Wild West coaches would be Lionel? although the "coarseness" of their bogies might have you wishing to replace them with something a little less... Why would you want to stick a dog on the side of the coach? Edited February 18, 2016 by Northroader Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 David Jenkinson had one of those Midland coaches on his original Marthwaite layout, which hit the Railway Modeller maybe somewhere about 1964. Later he relegated it to a hut, which he said was more realistic for the 1930s. I strongly suspect he will have created it out of Plastikard given that he was a master in that field. I believe these Midland jobbies were originally prestige stock, used on Anglo-Scottish expresses, but the punters disliked them because they were 'opens' as opposed to the compartment stock people of those days strongly preferred. Of course, nowadays we're stuck with open coaches whether we like them or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 If we are talking the Edwardian period, it could be a Photographer's studio - remembering that was John Ahern's profession. Regards Chris H Jack Ahern was by profession a maritime insurance broker but, as you have indicated he was also a pioneer in photography. Best wishes, Chairman, Pedants Society... Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Northroader Chien, chene, chaine (canard en ......), champagne, chandeliers, chanteuse, chemin de fer ....... You've set me off now. Lionel? I don't think they sit well next to Ace, BL etc, whereas some of Paya's stuff does. That is the drift of my thinking, so far. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) I have in mind that Triang did an open platform clerestory bogie coach (probably in their transcontinental range). I did look at it as a possible early Midland Pullman - but got no further. Edit there you go, but I don't like the price http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIANG-R448-OLD-TIME-COACH-DAVY-CROCKETT-BOXED-PLAIN-YELLOW-RARER-EARLY-VERSION-/391375859402?hash=item5b1fd1aeca:g:mAwAAOSwFqJWrfM3 Edited February 18, 2016 by Andy Hayter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Thanks all. Regarding steps and platform heights, Castle Aching will have Victorian platform heights that have not been raised. I have yet to decide the height, but they will be lower than the norm (sorry, Norm). Conventional 4-wheelers will need steps too! Kevin - I see what you say about the beading. My thinnest microstrip would stand proud of the moulded beading. I think I have managed to get away with that in relation to the section I added to the sides above the windows, but I could not blend the strip with the existing vertical bars. Northroader - matchboard lower panels is a good idea. I don't have any Evergreen 'siding', however. But, given my comments on the companion bogie coach below, I may have to procure some in any case. Below is a picture of the rather sorry thing that I have designated as my Open Lav. Third, the necessary companion for my 4-wheel 1st-2nd composite. Before it fell into my clutches, someone had removed the vertical bars that once divided the window, and did so rather inexpertly. My second issue with this coach is that, although the height of the sides is, coincidentally, the same as the raised sides of the German 4-wheeler, the waist is too low. My thought, then, is to replace the sides entirely, adopt a window style similar to the 4-wheeler, and raise the waist height, using Evergreen siding for the lower sides. There is one further problem. I cannot fit UK-size coach wheels to the bogies. The largest wheel sets I can fit are the wheels from a Dapol BR Brake Van kit. This does not increase the ride height to match the 4-wheeler. I can mount the buffer beams higher to compensate for this, but it will leave me needing to ensure that the overall height of the sides is increased and the waist height further increased or the coach will look too low next to its companion. Thoughts and suggestions, as ever, gratefully received. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornamuse Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 awesome work - love how the carriages are going. Do they need to match heights? they could come from a variety of sources and times, sourced second hand ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted February 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2016 Ratio 8' LNWR bogies are reasonably inexpensive and easily obtained. They might work. http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3340,3344&CAT_ID=3350&P_ID=17895 You could almost do with the top half of the sides mounting the other way up to get the proportions right (plus moving the glazing bars) but it would a challenging bit of sawing. The inexpert vertical bar removal doesn't look to bad to me. It needs some fettling but looks like it might be fixable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Depending upon how the bogies are fixed/pivoted, a packing washers might lift the body enough to allow larger wheels, which in turn would lift it a bit more - 1.5mm packers, and a 3mm increase in wheel diameter, yielding 3mm lift, might just be enough. I like the vehicle though, it definitely has great potential. And, having found out the asking price for an old Spanish tinplate coach like this (lovely piece, nice patina etc) ........... I've decided it is something my railway can well manage without. It makes that Davy Crockett job look like a freebie! K 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Well, in the light of a new day and with the benefit of a flat surface, I have reappraised the coach height issue. My first comparison pictures were taken on my cutting mat, which, I realise, has the contours of the Durham Dales. This may explain quite a bit about how my models turn out. Be that as it may, today we are looking on glass and I reckon that the Dapol replacement wheel do raise the bogie coach just about high enough, any further adjustment upwards can be achieved by the buffer beam. The need to raise the waist is still obvious, and I include a shot of the Dreadful Windows. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Like Mr. Brown would say, "it looks very capable": maybe a touch more bolster packing, fix the window bars, and then a repaint to match the other coach, and you'll be much more happier about it. I don't think the waist height is a problem.Whoever would have picked that shade of green? Edited February 19, 2016 by Northroader Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Thanks, Northroader. That shade of green is, indeed, very off-putting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Metropolitan H Posted February 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2016 If it were me contemplating a rebuild of the bogie (made by "Pocher" ?), I would look very closely at the possibility of lifting the whole body - on a packing piece - above the underframe / floor unit, to bring the cantrail and waist rails to the same height as those on the four wheeler. The edges of the packer could be left plain and slightly proud to represent the bottom body-side rail, or finished flush with the bottom of the match-boarding with the joint grooves extended down across the packer edges. I would not then see any need to change the window apertures / glazing bars. Hope that makes sense. Regards Chris H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 And, to add further unhelpful distraction: If you look at what Electrotren offers in HO, one can have an entire British LR train, with either an 0-6-0T or an 0-6-0ST at the head, and a string of "Costa" coaches behind, straight off the shelf of your nearest Spanish toy shop! http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/69-electrotren Such a pity that Mr Greenly decided that we shouldn't model to HO scale. Does bring up the fact that there was a great deal of British influence on early Spanish railways, bought home to me when I stumbled upon a metre gauge loco on a plinth in Bilbao, which seemed to be a crossbreed between an IoM Beyer-Peacock, and a Met Railway Beyer-Peacock. The Majorcan railways had similar. Everything, buildings, track layouts, rolling stock, financial backing, about these railways was British. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 You mean something like this, Kevin? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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