PAD Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Now that the JLTRT 57XX is all but finished awaiting the arrival of the etched plates from Guilplates, I have managed to make a start on the Scorpio 51XX. Unlike the 57XX, it is packed in a nice sturdy box suitable for storing the completed model (albeit with added padding). And here'what's inside. The Slaters wheels were sourced from Scorpio with the kit. I'll be getting a suitable ABC motor gearbox unit later. The cab rear and the front drop plate are now in nickel silver instead of brass and hence the gaps in the brass etches. Perhaps an original error in the etchings has been corrected?? Here's the castings laid out. Overall they look quite good, although any that don't fettle up well will be replaced if better items are available. Here's where I have got to so far. Most of the rivets on this kit need punching out which I don't mind but there's about 400 just in the frames! The frames need a slight alteration which is mentioned in the instructions which are very comprehensive, And the frames, spacers and compensation beams ready for soldering. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Following as usual Peter, looking forward to another masterclass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johng Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I followed the build of your 57XX with great interest, excellent work, and so nicely reported. The 51XX can build into a good model, Brack's has a really nice example, that he built a couple of years ago. There are challenges with the boiler length,and height, front weather board position and cylinder widths, nothing that can't be amended with the parts supplied however, you could graft in the 56XX boiler from JLTRT as they are the same GWR standard 2. I would advise the use of the drawings in Great Western Journal no 5, as a guide, these are reproduced there in 7mm scale thanks to Tony Reynalds, if memory serves me correctly, and would serve dividends no doubt. I will follow this with the utmost interest and best regards, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Hi John, Thanks for the kind words on the 57XX. One thing I overlooked was the route indicator disc and power class letter. Should have put that on before the weathering but will have to do it later. The GWR is a little outside my comfort zone and these livery details completely passed me by till now. Thanks also for the heads up on the boiler issues and the drawing in the GWJ . I have a copy of that as part of the research and will check out the boiler parts. By front weather board do you mean the cab front plate? What is the problem with that? Just an additional comment on the instructions. As I said they are very comprehensive with a mix of diagrams and text. Two or three areas where slight ammendments to the etchings are needed are also noted. Here's one of the two chassis diagrams. The only negative aspect is the photo copies of the etches. The various parts are all numbered clearly to match up to the references in the text, including an additional number identifying how many of the parts there are, where there are more than one. That's all fine but the quality of the photo copied images of the frets is very poor making them difficult to see easily. To make things easier I have printed the photos I took of the frets and added the numbers to these. Much easier to follow. This is the photo copy from the instructions of the chassis fret. Not good! Cheers, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johng Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Hi Peter, The Front Weatherboard is the traditional GWR title for the cab front plate as we would call it, the GWR loved it's titles, the drawings of the frames are called the Erecting Plan and the GA the Frame Plan, all makes sense.......!? honest. If you build the boiler as etched,the cast shoulder of the Belpaire moves the cab front back to far, by about 3mm, so check the boiler assembly against your drawing, shorten as required, both in height and length this will allow you to move the cab front forward to the correct position. I will talk with Dave Murdoch if I see him on Friday, as he completed his last year. Hopefully I will see Alan (Brack's) in about 2 weeks and discuss his build and the issues he had and how he resolved them, for his is outstanding. Pity you can't get down the Hardwicke (GlosGOG) April 3rd. It will all sort itself out I am sure, we'll enjoy the journey with you John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 This will, I'm sure, be a pleasure to follow!! Regards, Deano Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 After a decent session at the bench I now have a rolling chassis. I have assembled the parts as per the instructions with one small modification. It is suggested that the turned brass pivot for the compensation beam is added from the inside and soldered to the outside of the frames. Don't like that for two reasons. First it then needs to be trimmed, filed back and cleaned up. Second after all that there is very little contact between the pivot and the frames. Seems to me at some point in the future this could pop out. Therefore I soldering it from the outside where there is better contact with the flange on the pivot. The beam does not need to be fixed to the pivot as is is held in place by the axle bearings. Here's the frames showing the inside and outside views. Sorry about the poor image quality. And here's the frames assembled. The rear truck is just a simple pony truck not a radial truck as on the prototype. As long as it looks the part when finished and functions ok I can live with that. It's a bit flimsy so I'll beaf it up a bit later to make it more robust. Also got the front pony truck done as well and fitted all the wheels. All is square and everything runs so far. I will also add some side control to the trucks later. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Looks good, It's a shame it was not designedwith the radial rear axle I am sure it would be as easier to draw than the changes needed to make it a pony truck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Looks good, It's a shame it was not designedwith the radial rear axle I am sure it would be as easier to draw than the changes needed to make it a pony truck. Not sure about that, as the pony truck is a very simple one piece etch. As long as it works OK I don't mind either way. What I don't like are the coupling rods which are designed to pivot on the centre crank pin not at the joint behind it, as on the prototype. In 7 mm that's not acceptible to me and I'll be modifying them to pivot at the joint. Don't know if all the Scorpio kits are like this, but the Seven Duke was, so I assume the Brittania is as well. I have an Acorn rebuilt Merchant Navy that has this set-up and I have found that as there are three separate etches running on the crankpin bush, they wear grooves in it. Much better to have the three soldered as one thick boss to spread the contact evenly along the bush. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hi PAD, been tempted by one of these kits for a while... I'm a GE modeller usually, but I'm also a fireman on the Epping Ongar Railway, and spent more time on our 41xx than any other engine, and quite fancy a model of one. If you need to know any details, just ask as I know the engine pretty well.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hi PAD, been tempted by one of these kits for a while... I'm a GE modeller usually, but I'm also a fireman on the Epping Ongar Railway, and spent more time on our 41xx than any other engine, and quite fancy a model of one. If you need to know any details, just ask as I know the engine pretty well.. JB. Hi JB, many thanks. I will take you up on that if I get stuck. I took over 200 photos of the pair at Didcot so hopefully I have enough info. However, if you see anything that does not look right, don't worry about being critical, just give me shout.Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 just adding my name to the followers. I like what I have seen of Scorpio kits, I'm sure this will be no exception. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Made a start on correcting the coupling rods, and also did some work on the cylinders and slide bar brackets. Here's the coupling rod laminates before soldering. As can be seen they are designed to pivot on the center crank pin, not at the joint behind it as on the prototype. First thing is to line them up in some way to solder them at the middle crank pin boss. Again the Avonside jig is a big help, but is not essential. After soldering the front section and the middle boss, you then have a rigid coupling rod, but without the the rear laminates added yet. Then the rear rod is cut free at the joint and the center of the joint drilled through on the out laminate. I then replaced them in the jig with the rear laminate also in place and drilled all the way through. The rear section can then be tack soldered away from the joint to keep the laminates in line, and then both sections can be taken out and put in the vice to solder all round. After that both rods were cleaned up and pinned at the joint with some nickel silver rod. After trimming and cleaning up this is what you have. A nice touch which you don't always see, is the "cork" represented on the middle laminate. Much better than having to drill the oil pot later and solder in some wire for the cork. Here's the slide bar bracket parts. And after soldering. In the vice for cleaning up. And finished I put a good fillet of solder behind the fold to strengthen it up. No need to clean up as it won't be visible. Moving on to the cylinders. Got the wrappers in place and placed in the frames along with the slide bar brackets. When the slide bars are in place this will make a nice rigid removable unit. On to the cylinder castings. Here's the parts after some fettling, but not complete. The slide bars on the right had only received a quick whiz with the wire brush in the mini drill. After some thought I decided to epoxy the cylinder plates rather than solder in place. These are meaty castings and soak up a lot of heat so it is difficult to get away with the minimum mount of solder, which means a lot of cleaning up afterwards. Excess epoxy is much easier to remove and also givse you a few minutes to ensure that everything is lined up before it cures. The slide bars were soldered in place however. (horses for courses!) And the cross heads with the lubrication hole drilled. I Think it is to access a cork in the small end of the correcting rod. Perhaps Scale7JB could comment on that? The clearance behind the cross head will be very tight when the coupling rod is in place, so the clearance on the front wheels had been kept to a minimum. I did this by moving out the top hat bearings having centered the wheels (with Costa Coffee stirrers), rather than having to add washers. I'm really pleased with how it's going so far. The castings need a little more work than some more expensive kits, but they look the part when fettled. I now have to correct the left hand coupling rods and get the other set of slide bars fettled and fitted. At the moment the chassis is quite flexible and I will be making additional spacers at some point to make it more rigid. Need to get the motor gear box from ABC before doing that though. Soldering the slide bar bracket in place would help but I won't be doing that as mentioned above. I'll put a spacer underneath with a captive nut and screw the bracket cross plate with a counter sunk screw. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It is coming along nicely. I have used the same method on coupling rods too. There seems to be plenty of space behind the slidebars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Absolutely mate, finger hole for the corks.. You could possibly open it up Ever such a little bit, but I don't know any dimensions off hand.. Our 41 is a bit weird, as it has different designs of connecting rods either side, one has a cork in the top of the boss, and the other has a cork projecting at 60 degrees so can be filled from aft the crosshead. So much got Western standardisation.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 A nice touch which you don't always see, is the "cork" represented on the middle laminate. Much better than having to drill the oil pot later and solder in some wire for the cork. Don't often see as it somehow gets filed off ahem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Absolutely mate, finger hole for the corks.. You could possibly open it up Ever such a little bit, but I don't know any dimensions off hand.. JB. Thanks JB. However, looking at this shot of a large prairie cross head, I think I'll leave it as it is. I found this on here the other night but don't recall who thread it was, so thanks to whoever posted it. Cheers, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 There seems to be plenty of space behind the slidebars. Hi N15class, there does now, but I hope there will still be clearance when rods are on. Jazz built one back in 2012 and wrote:- "The big problen was absolutely no room for the crossheads to clear the coupling rods." However, we shall see. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 There seems to be plenty of space behind the slidebars. Hi N15class, there does now, but I hope there will still be clearance when rods are on. Jazz built one back in 2012 and wrote:- "The big problen was absolutely no room for the crossheads to clear the coupling rods." However, we shall see. Cheers, Peter By the time the rods and the cross heads are in place there won't be much room at all, on my 42xx I had to pack the front axle out until there was no side play at all.. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Hi PAD, This is the clearance on a 52xx, so I would not think a 51xx would be much different if at all. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 Tight as a ducks then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Made a start on correcting the coupling rods, and also did some work on the cylinders and slide bar brackets. Here's the coupling rod laminates before soldering. As can be seen they are designed to pivot on the center crank pin, not at the joint behind it as on the prototype. 20160211_120900-1.jpg First thing is to line them up in some way to solder them at the middle crank pin boss. Again the Avonside jig is a big help, but is not essential. 20160211_123520.jpg After soldering the front section and the middle boss, you then have a rigid coupling rod, but without the the rear laminates added yet. 20160211_125002-1.jpg Then the rear rod is cut free at the joint and the center of the joint drilled through on the out laminate. I then replaced them in the jig with the rear laminate also in place and drilled all the way through. The rear section can then be tack soldered away from the joint to keep the laminates in line, and then both sections can be taken out and put in the vice to solder all round. 20160211_131914.jpg After that both rods were cleaned up and pinned at the joint with some nickel silver rod. After trimming and cleaning up this is what you have. 20160211_152839-1.jpg A nice touch which you don't always see, is the "cork" represented on the middle laminate. Much better than having to drill the oil pot later and solder in some wire for the cork.... Crankpin-jointed rods are common in 4mm scale, and not necessarily easy to correct either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm on a business trip but brought my bag of tricks with me so I could do a bit of fettling in the hotel. Wanted to get the other coupling rod modified and laminated so had to improvise as I don't have the Avonside jig with me. Here's what I did. It's the same sequence of events as with the other rod but using a piece of wood drilled to take steel pins from the Avonside to line things up. Worked a treat. The jig is nice but not essential and it could be done with any suitable size rod or tub to go through the crank pin holes into a piece of wood. I have also got the slide bars and bracket fixed to the cylinders. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johng Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi Peter, Fettling in the hotel,can't fault it,better than propping up the bar! (?), I really like the mods and your train of thought as this progresses. Keep up the good work, clever stuff, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted February 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2016 This is the clearance on a 52xx, so I would not think a 51xx would be much different if at all. P1040839.JPG It's not touching = plenty of room Looking forward to see this one come together after your last build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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