Toms LNER Workbench - Comet V2 Chassis

[grob1234]

BOGIES!

 

Hello, 

 

Work has commenced on the RDEB Silver Jubilee kit. Sadly progress has be very slow (an my modelling in general over the last 6 months) due to having to revise for 14 professional exams. The end is nearly in sight though (if I pass), with the last 4 scheduled for early next week.

 

Using MJT components for the bogies, and wheels from wizard models, I got all of the bogies together. Incidentally, I found that the wheels had a lot of grease on them from the manufacturing process, so I cleaned them in warmish soapy water. However most of the tyres fell off, so I had to use very thin CA to hold them on. Once dry I painted them all, and used a dremel like tool in order to paint the white rims; makes it much neater and quicker, when you spin the axle with the dremel. 

 

We have 6 of the Gresley 8'6" bogies:

 

 

2 of the 10'6 version:

 

 

And three of these, which will be used as the middle bogies of articulated units. I haven't dressed them with their sides as I'm liable to have to do some soldering on these in order to affix the pivot mount for the coupling:

 

 

I find the MJT bogies go together really nicely, and once you get the hang of it, they are very easy.

 

I also spent a relaxing hour or so bending up the sides for the model. A few tweaks needed here and there but we are 99% done on this:

 

 

 

Today I began chopping brass section using my little toy:

 

 

A Proxxon chop saw. Its absolutely fantastic, not cheap, but I feel you get what you pay for. Simply minutes to make very accurate cuts. I also have their pillar drill, which is just as excellent.

 

Next, I shall tack solder up the first coach, to confirm the drawings I have made for the construction of the chassis are correct, before I go ahead and solder up the rest of the rake.

 

Thanks for looking in.

[grob1234]

Work on the SJ continues in fits and starts during revision breaks!

 

Chassis components are all cut to length, brass angle is cut and drilled to fix the chassis to the body, and I've also mocked up one coach as a test run, just lightly tacking to barely hold it together.

 

However, things never go smoothly do they?

 

I ordered 8 of the 250mm LNER elliptical profile roofs from MJT, however when placing them on the model, you can see how high they are - its about a scale foot! Also, they're only 215mm long, so they are useless to me!

 

 

On the left is the elliptical profile, on the right a shouldered profile. Talking to MickLNER of these parts, he used the shouldered version on the right, and painstakingly filed off the shoulder. This would reduce the height by about 2 mm or so, but still a little high. Any LNER coach experts got any suggestions? I'm just awaiting a reply from Andrew at Wizard Models on the subject so I hope to resolve it soon.

 

 

Here's a look inside at the chassis securing tabs for the coaches:

 

 

 

By using the Proxxon chop saw and bench drill, I am able to standardise the components for the chassis making the build far easier. On the coronation, I effectively scratch built 9 individual chassis. So far using the greater accuracy of the power tools I'm hoping that I can simply batch build everything, which will save no end of time. We shall see!!

 

Thanks for stopping by.

[micklner]

On seeing the top of the Coach photo above,it is totally different setup from mine. Mine from memory (different make of model) never had the top lip, hence I was able to cut the roof shoulder clear of the windows, this still left enough to glue the Roof onto the body.

 

The only way to use the roofs I used, would be to remove the top lip. Hopefully 51L will have something suitable and easier to fit.

[jwealleans]

Rupert usually specifies what parts you need and generally uses MJT, so I'd have done what you have. I have to say I'm surprised. The Gresley roof Wizard do is of a shallower profile than any of the others, but of course has the domed ends, so you'd be cutting and shutting them.

 

 

The Wizard one is the grey one posed on the carriage, the other is a Kirk.

 

These are just a plain arc roof, aren't they? I'd be tempted to roll them myself. A set of rolling bars would be required, but once you have them they're useful for all sorts and plain brass sheet isn't massively expensive. You can see all over my workbench thread what I do - a strip of .75 or 1mm angle along the top of the side (that makes a cornice and also gives you more to solder to) and then roll a roof, file laboriously down to a good fit and solder on. The angle will also hide some of your raggy edges if you're as hamfisted as me. Once done it makes a very strong structure indeed.

 

There, I'm spending your money on a set of rolling bars because you've got me tempted with that saw.

 

The set we run on Grantham is the MARC models one, so I can't ask Roy, but would you like me to ask Rupert what he used for his set on the Gresley Beat?

Edited July 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[grob1234]

OK so the roof saga continues.

 

Andrew at Wizard Models very kindly came back to me having checked his own roof profile against the end of the etch. Here's his response:

 

"C10 is nowhere near. My LNEC001 is better, but because it’s a standard Gresley roof you will need to cut the ends off and probably have to join two roofs for the longer coaches. I’m not convinced it’s wide enough either."

 

So that basically rules that option out.

 

Here is a poor quality camera phone pic of the etch vs the Isinglass drawing:

 

 

It looks to me to be a bit flatter at the top... I do love the idea of some rolling bars, Jonathan, and I may require some for a future project, but I'm not sure I'd be able to create the complex nature of the curve? 

 

Here's what the instructions say:

 

"Use Mailcoach/Kirk/ColinAshby roof or D&S vac form moulding. The mailcoach moulding needs to have approx 1.5-2mm removed to match the etched end profiles, ie the depth of the cantrail edge/rainstrip."

 

I did look on the Coopercraft website and he does have them listed.... may be worth a call? I don't know if D&S vac forms are available, probably not.

 

The other alternative is to try and make my own master and vac form, but that's quite a bit of work. Anyway I shall keep plugging away, I have another roof that needs filing down as Mick suggests, so I'll break out the files tomorrow, and have a go with that.

 

The chop saw is brilliant. I cut all the aluminium chassis parts today, all identical length, all square, neat cuts. I also cut all the brass angle with it, again no problem, it saves so much time, and is so much more accurate than using hand saws. It'd be great for cutting aluminium roof profiles too if they were the right size....

 

I also have the pillar drill, again, so much use to be found for it. Being a kit maker, you'd definitely love both of them! 

 

Thanks for the help.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention, if you could ask Rupert, I'd be most grateful. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by grob1234

[jwealleans]

What model is the saw?

[grob1234]

Its a Proxxon KGS 80 Chop Saw. I got mine from Axminster Tools. I chose them as they're VAT registered and did a good job on the postage out here, plus I needed a few other bits which they had in stock. I'm sure if you hunted around, you could get a better deal, but they were convenient for me, and provided excellent service and quick delivery. Highly recommended. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by grob1234

[John Tomlinson]

Looking at the roof profile of the coach ends, they might be somewhere near a BR Mk1. Probably not much help, unless you have a moulding of one to try.

 

If it did work Southern Pride do them as parts in plastic.

 

John.

Edited February 4, 2017 by John Tomlinson

[grob1234]

Looking at the roof profile of the coach ends, they might be somewhere near a BR Mk1. Probably not much help, unless you have a moulding of one to try.

 

If it did work Southern Pride do them as parts in plastic.

 

John.

 

Thank you John.

 

I do actually have a BRmk 1 profile roof... I think its *probably* going to be my best bet. I just need to file the shoulder  off the one I have to get it to fit. Laborious, but potentially worth it.

[grob1234]

Hello everyone

Time for a quick update on the RDEB (Wizard Models) Silver Jubilee. I have done a lot of work on this over the last couple of weeks, though it seems not much has changed visually. With there being 16 separate side etches to complete, the work is quite repetitive, but I wanted to make sure I tackled it in a batch processing manner. This included fitting nearly 100 door hinges, many droplights, step boards, and tabs to each side in order to help stabilise the coach itself.

 

I have to say I am enjoying the build. It doesn’t fall together, there are no slots or tabs or anything else to aid with construction, so you have to think like a modeller. However with a bit of thought, and a bit of planning, I think a good result is definitely possible.

 

Let’s start with the previous issue concerning the roofs. I came to the conclusion I had to remove about 2mm off each BR profile aluminium roof in order to get them to fit the coach bodies. This was going to be a tricky task, so I devised a little jig to assist me:

 

 

The jig took about an hour to build, I was ably assisted by my Proxxon. Might seem a bit extravagant to build a jig just to file 8 roofs, but having tried to file them without the jig I think it is time well spent. The jig holds the roof (this one has been cut shorter) at both ends, and also stabilised the roof from left to right, meaning I can attack it with a great big file, and not fear nasty cuts on the sharp burrs. Once the coarse filing is done, I remove the piece and use finer files to get it just right and remove the sharp edges.

 

 

By the way, the file was just £3 and the handle 80p. Sometimes living in HK has its benefits.

 

 

Here are the constituent parts of the coach. Note the angle on the left and tab on the right to help align the sides and ends, and help strengthen the coach. I’ll add the steps for the step boards later. 

 

 

And all this turns into this:

 

 

Just 7 more to complete. I tested the coach for ride height, and its a little under, which is good, because it means I can pack under the bogies to bring it to the exact height I require.

 

In other news, I have two more kits, which I hope to review on YouTube, and I'm just waiting for some bits to arrive from Markits, so I can *possibly* complete the W1 before the St Neots show.

[chris p bacon]

 so I can *possibly* complete the W1 before the St Neots show.

I should be there, but as yet don't know which day.

 

The builds looking good.

[grob1234]

I should be there, but as yet don't know which day.

 

The builds looking good.

Excellent Dave. I'll probably be hanging around "Grantham" like a bad smell. I shall be there on the Sunday, so would be great to meet you.

[chris p bacon]

Excellent Dave. I'll probably be hanging around "Grantham" like a bad smell. I shall be there on the Sunday, so would be great to meet you.

I'll aim for the Sunday.

[Gordonotron]

Just wondering what your doing for the underframes?

I'm debating picking up this kit, but struggling to get an underframe set for it, and don't fancy making my own.

[grob1234]

Just wondering what your doing for the underframes?

I'm debating picking up this kit, but struggling to get an underframe set for it, and don't fancy making my own.

 

Hello Gordon,

 

Thanks for the interest. Yes the chassis is a little bit of a problem, due mainly to there not being one! Luckily I had encountered this before in my Coronation build last year, so I have been able to refine my method. I would encourage you to have a go, as the etches are really nice.

 

Basically, the frame is a strip of aluminium about 2mm thick, 24mm across and cut to the length of the coach, which is held in place by brass angle attached to the inside of the coach ends. The aluminium is then screwed into the captive nuts on the brass angle. For the coach floor, I glue strips of styrene sheet, cut to the correct width, allowing the interior to be removed, should a seat become dislodged for example.

 

Here is the aluminium, it’s ideal because it’s strong and lightweight. 

 

 

Here is the bracket inside the coach for the articulated end. The captive bolt is the pivot that will attach to the center bogie. Careful placement of this is essential otherwise you'll get wonky coaches.

 

 

And here is the other end.

 

 

This is an overall view of the coach from underneath showing the fixing brackets (I think they are 6mm brass angle). Note how I have used brass square on the RHS to space the bracket away from the bow end.

 

 

Here is the floor screwed in.

 

 

The floor sits on the bogie tops. I fill the space with styrene to pack the underside of the coach to the correct height. But I only do this once the whole rake is assembled, to ensure they are all the same. You need to be very careful when you solder the brass angle to the ends to ensure they are level and all the same height. I use a simple jig for this.

 

 

Here is the coach on its chassis. It is a little low, which is what you want. Too high is difficult to sort out.

 

 

Hope this is of some use. It really isn’t too hard, just requires a little planning and careful measurement and a few diagrams!

[Jol Wilkinson]

You could use copper faced board (Maplins, etc) for the floor, as used in Stevenson Carriages kits. You can solder fittings to it.

 

MJT bogies are now supplied with pop studs that seem to have a more square profile on the narrow section of the male piece. I have found that this sometimes restricts free rotation of the bogie and needs "rounding" with an escapement file one of the reasons I've gone over to the Brassmasters etched bogies)

[grob1234]

10000 in primer, before heading rapidly off to be attacked by an airbrush. The tender does slope slightly down, as exaggerated by the photo. I'll remedy this after painting (just a small amount of packing between the chassis and tender body. next time you see it, she'll be painted (hopefully). The deadline is tomorrow at 3pm!

 

 

[grob1234]

Hello Everyone,

 

Bad news I'm afraid. I've not managed to get 10000 finished in time for St Neots. There was simply too much to do and too little time to do it. I decided against rushing, and have stopped work on it. The motion is together, but not connected to the chassis. Most of the painting is complete, and it is half decalled. There is a lot of time consuming work to complete, and to be honest I'm not overly happy to display it, as some of the varnish has lifted off the tender, and the LNER decal needs removing because it has wrinkled, as seems usual with the long tender decals. The backing is also yellow, which shows through, so when I return to Hong Kong I will re do this by cutting out each letter to avoid the yellow and wrinkling. Also, I don't know how it will go round curves. I only have radius 3 to test it on, and there is no way it goes round that with the body on. It does clear large peco points though, so I hope it's not just a display loco. Hope to see you all in St Neots in a couple of weeks. (Tender still sloping, I have packed plasticard to remedy this.

 

[grob1234]

Hello everyone,

 

Just a very quick (small) heads up for a new YouTube channel I'm developing. It's called Toms Trains, and its primary focus is kit building.

 

At this stage very much a test bed, so a sort of 'soft launch' at this stage. If there is some interest, then I'll be expanding what I cover on the channel, and will be making improvements to video quality, sound, editing, lighting and so on. Anyway, here is the first video (part 1 of 3) any comments or suggestions welcome.

 

 

https://youtu.be/_v8EgsYgnFc 

[gr.king]

Hello everyone,

 

Just a very quick (small) heads up for a new YouTube channel I'm developing. It's called Toms Trains, and its primary focus is kit building.

 

At this stage very much a test bed, so a sort of 'soft launch' at this stage. If there is some interest, then I'll be expanding what I cover on the channel, and will be making improvements to video quality, sound, editing, lighting and so on. Anyway, here is the first video (part 1 of 3) any comments or suggestions welcome.

 

 

https://youtu.be/_v8EgsYgnFc 

 

Aha! The Stirling Class D tender. I shall be interested to see how your method compares with the instructions. I went by a different route in certain places, based upon what I imagined would be easiest and most successful.

 

Plenty of soldering power at the ready?

[micklner]

Use a Mashima 10 series motor (if you can find one) much more power. Looks like a nice kit.

[grob1234]

Aha! The Stirling Class D tender. I shall be interested to see how your method compares with the instructions. I went by a different route in certain places, based upon what I imagined would be easiest and most successful.

 

Plenty of soldering power at the ready?

 

 

Will see how I go with that tender. Hope to get it together ok. The antex is raring to go! Got the chassis for the loco together today. Frames seem pretty wide. Might have to remove the rim of the bearings on axles 1 and 3 as there's very little side play. Yes I did use the OO ones before anyone asks!

 

 

Use a Mashima 10 series motor (if you can find one) much more power. Looks like a nice kit.

Yeah you're probably right mick but I have a nice 14 series motor and a 60:1 box so she'll be fine for my needs. Yes decent looking kit I just need to do it justice.

[micklner]

 

 

Will see how I go with that tender. Hope to get it together ok. The antex is raring to go! Got the chassis for the loco together today. Frames seem pretty wide. Might have to remove the rim of the bearings on axles 1 and 3 as there's very little side play. Yes I did use the OO ones before anyone asks!

 

 

Yeah you're probably right mick but I have a nice 14 series motor and a 60:1 box so she'll be fine for my needs. Yes decent looking kit I just need to do it justice.

10 series suggested, as I had presumed there is  not enough room for a larger motor ? the Boiler doesn't look too big !!!

[grob1234]

I fits... I may need to do a little creative engineering though. Keep you posted!

[gr.king]

J3 boiler girth and firebox width, even where waisted-in, should be the same as the J6. Those J6s I built in resin from a plastic master demonstrated that even with thicker firebox sides than you'd get in an etched construction, a 14 by 20 Mashima motor would go in, even if I later switched to those cheap, slimmer Mitsumi motors. The key thing may not be the girth, but working out where your choice of gears / gearbox will actually let the motor sit, since the J3 boiler pitch is lower than that of the J6......