Invernevis based on Fort William in N Gauge

[David41283]

Good evening everyone,

 

As can be seen above, I have been playing with Anyrail5 and Templot in planning this layout, but sometimes you can't beat a tape measure, some paper templates and some stock to see if a scheme works.

 

Here is a very rough mock up. Please excuse the kitchen table background!

 

 

The tape measure is set to 4ft. I have placed my rough scale model of the station building at the far end. The class 20 and 4 x mk1s are in the long platform which extends past the station building. The point templates are downloaded from the British Finescale website.

It all fits - far better than I was getting the impression from the layout planning software. I reckon if I were to build the station building a few cm shorter I would gain a little more useful room too.

 

 

The points in the station throat. I have tried to capture the iconic 2 sweeping left handers using finescale B6 turnouts. I have then added a finescale A5 for the two bay platforms. My extra siding would be in front of the coaches on the harbour wall.

 

I also had a delivery on Saturday morning - a finescale B6 point and a meter of track. There are traditional N gauge - not 2mm fs, but use the correct sleeper spacing and profile and use code 40 rail. Upon opening the box my first thought was that I am glad I am not attempting to solder up my own track - it is so small and fiddly.

 

Here is the point base - the holes are for the chairs, which are then glued with solvent.

 

 

Here is a sprue of chairs.

 

 

In the next few weeks I will do a test build of the track and post my progress. I've got a few scottish blue diesels to finish first though..

 

Cheers

 

David

Edited April 11, 2016 by David41283

[David41283]

Good evening,

 

I have started having a go at the track and points kits I purchased as an experiment.

 

The plain track goes together very nicely and the advantages are clear - here is the obligatory comparison to a spare bit of Peco code 80. The jig I purchased at the same time as the track makes assembly even easier.

 

The points are a lot trickier. Despite the pre-drilled holes to locate the chairs meaning you don't need any gauges, you are still required to solder and file the switch rails and tie-bar and some of the work needed to trim the tiny chairs is incredibly delicate.

 

The instructions are pretty basic - a good diagram and some general principles, certainly not a step-by-step.

 

I started by making some alterations to the base - I have cut out some of the webbing to allow easier soldering of power supplies later - you can see the two cut outs in the middle to allow me to solder a wire to both the stock and switch rails on both sides.

At this stage (above) I have fitted a couple of the slide chairs and have cleaned up and located the frog casting. I have also cut away some of the webbing under the frog to allow for attaching a wire later. I found I needed to ream out all the holes a little with a rat-tail needle file to get everything to fit.

 

This is one of the slide chairs - you are required to trim off the inside of the chair so that it doesn't foul the switch rail - you need to do 7 of these for each side of the point.

 

After a couple of hours work this evening this is where I have reached. I have the straight stock rail in place!

 

These turnout kits certainly aren't as straight-forward as I had anticipated, I wonder how much harder they are than building your own track from scratch, given the soldering of the switch rails and tie-bar is no different. However the pay-off for the effort is shown by the profile of the track as shown here:

 

Thanks for all the interest.

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

[IanStock]

Hello David, I've just discovered your thread - interesting project, as I've considered building FW myself several times, but looking out to the loch instead...  Regarding track, I've been conducting similar experiments to yours. I found the Finetrax points difficult at the switchblade end, though recent changes may have improved the matter.

 

I've built Scottish recently but I've set myself a different challenge now, with a French layout. There is an additional problem there in that many continental flanges are still larger than current ones on UK models. A combination of the two problems led me to join the 2mm Soc and use their components to build all my track that way. It works fine to N standards, and I was able to make the necessary gauges by hand. I can give more details if you want them. While they may not be as accurate as commercial ones, they seem to have produced a track that is working fine for me.

 

I also struggled with Templot but eventually got enough sussed to print out my track plan and build everything straight onto it - gives lovely sweeping track which I fear no unit track system will ever replicate. I would suggest that FW probably does need a similar approach if you want to retain the character of that station throat.

 

You can see more of my trials and tribulations on my blog, the address of which is in the footer below.

 

Regards,

Ian

[David41283]

I spent another 2 hours on the point last night.

 

Here are a couple of pics after it spent the night sandwiched between heavy books to ensure it stayed flat.

 

 

 

I know only have the really tricky bits left to do - making and fitting the switch rails / blades and the tie bar.

 

Annoyingly I will run out of the rail supplied with the kit before I have finished. You get 4 short lengths of approx 6" each in the box, which is JUST enough - if you think about which bits you make from each length. Not realising this, I used 1 length for each of  the stock rails, then cut the v rails and check rails from a third, I now only have 1 length left for both switch rails which is insufficient. Luckily having purchased a length of plain track too this shouldn't be  a problem, but it's something to be aware of if building a point kit in isolation.

 

I found it much easier to fit the chairs to the base, then thread the rails, whereas the instructions tell you to thread the chairs onto the rail then locate them into the holes on the base.

 

When building these kits "for real" not as a test piece, I would build several points as a unit - so you could extend the stock rails into the next turnout for instance. This would produce really nice flowing trackwork.

 

cheers - now off for a Parkrun!

 

David

 

 

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hello David,

 

I have only just found this thread but it's making for fascinating reading.

 

I built a Finetrax point and some straight track for an article and found the system to be straightforward and well thought out - I will be really interested to see how it looks on a layout as I think it has enormous potential.

 

Having just gone back and re-read it like you I found it advantageous to put the chairs in the base first - I placed them on a short off cut of rail and used that to position them in the holes. The idea behind this was to be able to 'push down' on the rail, rather than the chair, to get them into the holes which, while tight, I found to be a perfect fit. The working rail was then threaded in as you did.

 

Linked from one of the pages on Fort William station I noticed this picture which seems to clearly show that the tower is set forward from the side wall of the building, however judging from the final iteration of your card mock-up you seem to have got this area worked out now:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/fort_william/index14.shtml

 

The wonderfully atmospheric shot in post #6 also made me rue the fact that our Revolution Trains crowd-funded scheme for a Class 21/9 failed - it would've been perfect for your layout!

 

Thanks again for taking the time to post these updates and please keep them coming!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

 

PS Dmeaden - do you have a thread for your layout?

Edited April 16, 2016 by Ben A

[David41283]

Thanks Ben - I had put my name down for a 29, it would have been a lovely loco.

[David41283]

Evening everyone,

 

In the hour or so between the baby going to sleep and Match of the Day starting I have soldered and filed one of the switch rails.

 

This would appear to be the most complicated part of the kit, but it turned out to be the most enjoyable bit so far.

 

The instructions for this bit are excellent, but you only get these when you buy the jig - they don't come with the point kit itself.

 

First you need to fill one side of the end of your rail with solder - pretty straight forward with some carefully applied flux. 

 

Once this has been tidied up, it is put into the side of the jig. 

You file down the unsoldered side of the rail - the solder gives the rail extra strength and thickness on the reverse.

 

Next one of the chairs needs to be tidied up - there were large tabs on each side which needed filing down - it sits into this little slot in the jig.

The tiny bit of 0.4mm wire goes through the chair and into a hole in the jig. This has been trimmed down as close as possible. The filed-down rail is located using the slot in the jig.

 

Once the rail is clamped in place, a little bit of flux and a touch with a tinned iron solders the rail, chair and wire together.

 

This leaves a raised joint which would foul a wheel passing over, so the jig also has slots for filing this down.

 

You are left with a neat switch rail, with a chair and a tiny little peg on the bottom.

 

This peg (formed by the wire added above) goes into the pre-drilled hole on the pcb tie-bar.

 

Cheers

 

David

[dmeaden]

Hi David

Good clear instructions and easy to follow. I also found the switch blades a pleasure to make!

The fitting of the chairs mentioned earlier is much easier if you fit them with a short section of rail one at a time - a bit time consuming but works well and the spigots fit the point base perfectly using this method. This also means assembling the point insitu easier and then you can select the best arrangements for the rails that can then extend beyond the point base to make the track work smooth and level are reduce the number of joints and droppers.

Good luck with the assembly!

DaveM

[David41283]

Good evening everyone,

 

The point is finished and I've set up a bit of a test track on an off cut of ply. As it's only a test I've used what was to hand and its not particularly pretty. I have added a layer of 5mm foamboard in lieu of cork.

 

 

 

The point is thrown by a spare slide switch which also changes the polarity of the frog. The wire is a spare guitar string and the tube is a short section of the springy wire tube used to hang net curtains.

 

There were a few decisions to make which weren't covered by the instructions - it wasn't specified whether to solder the switch rails to the tie-bar. The pin added earlier was a good interference fit, but I decided to solder them in place in the end.

 

The other area which required a bit of thought was the frog. Having a single cast frog meant that the rails which form the 'v' were very close the frog but not connected. In the end I decided to solder them together and cut the rails further up as the proximity meant that I could neither guarantee that they would be isolated or connected.

 

Overall it works! It isn't as smooth as I'd imagined, the cast frog means that you still have the effect of the wheels dropping into the frog, which can only be avoided with a soldered up frog made of rails. One of the switch blades isn't as finely filed as the other, but you learn for next time. I am a little concerned about the overall robustness of the point, the rails slide through the chairs relatively easily, especially the straight ones - so I would consider adding tiny shims of plastic to protect isolation gaps over time. I also want to give more thought to the actuation method. The pre-drilled hole in the tie bar is fairly large which means a wire moves about more than I would like, perhaps tortoise or cobalt would be the way to go.

 

I would certainly suggest that having a practice go at these kits is worth doing. I found an old rattle-can of sleeper grime, so I will give it a coat of paint which will hopefully show up the aesthetic advantages of the code 40 track.

 

In conclusion, I'm going to fettle the point a bit more and get it painted before I decide what to do next.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

[David41283]

On another note, the loco fleet for this scottish layout is coming on. Clearly not all of these really ran to FW, but I am not planning to be too strict!

 

 

From left to right:

 

24117 - converted from a Farish 24/0

20048 - renumbered, detailed and weathered Farish

37108 - resprayed Farish

37425 - resprayed Farish

25238 - renumbered, detailed and weathered Farish

26040 - detailed and weathered Dapol.

 

My 27 came back from it's third trip back to Dapol today, once run-in it too will be renumbered, detailed and weathered.

 

Cheers

 

David

[dmeaden]

I think I'd be having a word with the depot manager to get some of those grimy locos cleaned!

Looking good!

With respect to the test point I have found as follows:

Switch blades to tie bar - I have super glued mine to date. Until I am happy with running I do not glue them just leave them loose clipped into the rail until testing and running satisfactory.

The rails and check rails seem to tighten up when they are butanoled - again I leave mine until testing completed.

The tie bar hole is perfect for traintronics point motors and I guess other types too.

The frogs need a fair bit of adjustment to get dead level and smooth. I tend to adjust at the base so they sit better but do need some work lowering the frog where the wheel flanges run through by careful filing. Any minuscule change in level to rail height or flange clearance will impede perfect running so needs to be carefully fettled until perfectly level - not easy to see by eye but running an 08 or tank loco usually shows any slight undulations.

The rail does expand and contract and it might even move a small amount so you ideally need 1/4 to 1/2mm gap. I use a thin metal gauge but even then after running and switching things seem to move a bit. To help I use 0.3mm brass wire droppers at 90 degrees to track to help restrain rails.

I loose fit the rails that join the frog area and then trim the frog at the end to get the best gap before gluing in position.

On type A points you can just get away without the isolating rails next to the frog but needed for large points as you have done.

Hope this helps and will add more as I think of it if that's ok...

Regards DaveM

[David41283]

I think I'd be having a word with the depot manager to get some of those grimy locos cleaned!

Looking good!

With respect to the test point I have found as follows:

Switch blades to tie bar - I have super glued mine to date. Until I am happy with running I do not glue them just leave them loose clipped into the rail until testing and running satisfactory.

The rails and check rails seem to tighten up when they are butanoled - again I leave mine until testing completed.

The tie bar hole is perfect for traintronics point motors and I guess other types too.

The frogs need a fair bit of adjustment to get dead level and smooth. I tend to adjust at the base so they sit better but do need some work lowering the frog where the wheel flanges run through by careful filing. Any minuscule change in level to rail height or flange clearance will impede perfect running so needs to be carefully fettled until perfectly level - not easy to see by eye but running an 08 or tank loco usually shows any slight undulations.

The rail does expand and contract and it might even move a small amount so you ideally need 1/4 to 1/2mm gap. I use a thin metal gauge but even then after running and switching things seem to move a bit. To help I use 0.3mm brass wire droppers at 90 degrees to track to help restrain rails.

I loose fit the rails that join the frog area and then trim the frog at the end to get the best gap before gluing in position.

On type A points you can just get away without the isolating rails next to the frog but needed for large points as you have done.

Hope this helps and will add more as I think of it if that's ok...

Regards DaveM

 

Thanks for posting that, I was thinking of enquiring what methods people had used to power these points. From much reading I understand that all handbuilt/kitbuilt points do have an inherent weakness at the tie-bar/blade joint, therefore you need to be careful with the point motor chosen. I am leaning towards tortoise motors which seem to be the most reliable and not as violent as others. How do you find the traintronics motors, they seem to be very expensive - more so even than Tortoise or Cobalt.

[Signaller69]

On another note, the loco fleet for this scottish layout is coming on. Clearly not all of these really ran to FW, but I am not planning to be too strict!

 

20160421_223215 (800x600).jpg

 

From left to right:

 

24117 - converted from a Farish 24/0

20048 - renumbered, detailed and weathered Farish

37108 - resprayed Farish

37425 - resprayed Farish

25238 - renumbered, detailed and weathered Farish

26040 - detailed and weathered Dapol.

 

My 27 came back from it's third trip back to Dapol today, once run-in it too will be renumbered, detailed and weathered.

 

Cheers

 

David

Nice fleet! 24/1 is a particular favourite of mine, done a similar conversion on a Bachmann 25 body in OO (more work than using a 24 body but it was lying around after the chassis found use in a much modified Hornby 29 . . . ). Just need to add cosmetic headlights and source some boiler intake covers with the 5 horizontal slats which Inverness locos were fitted with now.

 

Enjoying your thread David!

 

Martyn.

[David41283]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been developing and adjusting the track plan in Anyrail5 and have now printed out a pretty-much final design. The geometry works with either Code 55 or the finescale B6s I've been test building. I have allowed myself an extra few cm of length, so the board is going to be around 130cm long now. A shade over 4ft, this allows me to have a bit more of the station forecourt with the dock line going past the parked cars and also a little bit more at the other end so that the first pair of points aren't right on the tip of the baseboard.

 

 

The board will be a bit wider than this - there will be around 6cm of Loch to the right, there didn't seem much point printing out templates for this bit!

 

I have ordered some wood (so much for August!!). I am planning an integrated board with a viewing window into the layout with a built in lighting unit above. I am going to use the same design as my Tavistock Road micro-layout, which means the model is somewhat "framed" through a 20cm high window.

 

This picture should make this clear.

 

I am now in a real quandary.

 

As much as I like the look of the Finetracks I am extremely tempted to build the layout just using code 55. With the low viewing angle, platforms and the low wall along the sea-front of the layout, you're actually not going to see much of the track at all. Code 55 is bullet-proof, I know it is going to work. Having built the point I am concerned that track cleaning and use of the points will lead to a far higher failure rate than the much more robust code 55.

That said, I did enjoy building the point and it does look pretty good.

 

cheers

 

David

 

 

[IanStock]

Hello David, I had exactly the same doubts when I was at the point where you are now. In the end I allowed Cav Millward to nudge me in the direction of the finer scale option, I haven't regretted it.

 

Cheers

Ian

[David41283]

Hello David, I had exactly the same doubts when I was at the point where you are now. In the end I allowed Cav Millward to nudge me in the direction of the finer scale option, I haven't regretted it.

 

Cheers

Ian

 

Hi Ian,

 

I had a look at you blog via the link in your signature.

 

Am I right that you've not pursued the Finetracks much further than a test track and have now jumped into full scratch-building with copper-clad etc? 

 

I guess that sums up what appears to be Finetracks biggest challenge - as you have to solder up and file your own switch blades and tie-bar it doesn't seem too much of a jump to go the whole hog and build from scratch.

 

Perhaps this is best explained by suggesting that if there were a continuum between ready-to-lay peco and scratch built track; Finetracks are maybe 70% of the way along, instead of the 50% which would make them a "half-way house".

 

I am still in two minds, but in order to make the baseboards to my usual size (and in order to fit at home) I don't have much room beneath the baseboards for cobalts which would appear to be the ideal point motor for the kit built points.

 

Cheers

 

David 

[David41283]

In my opening post I suggested I may commission professionally made baseboards.

 

However I have had a bit of a rethink, although my carpentry isn't the greatest I do enjoy it, and there is satisfaction in saying "I made that".

 

I explored some of the baseboard kits available from various sources, but I realised that these are simply a package of cut wood which you need to build yourself, yet as they are a baseboard kit they come at a premium.

 

I made enquiries with a local independent timber merchant, who confirmed that they could provide sheet materials machine cut to the mm.

 

After many, many designs sketched on scraps of paper I sent the following cutting list to the merchants on Wednesday evening.

 

1 x        1300mm x 300mm
1 x        1318mm x 59mm
2 x        300mm x 300mm
1 x        1318mm x 300mm
2 x        1318mm x 50mm
8 x        300mm x 70mm
1 x        1200mm x 300mm
2 x        1218mm x 79mm
2 x        300mm x 79mm
 

I got an email back with a price yesterday and having paid over the phone was able to pick up this package today. My very own personalised kit for two baseboards, machine cut, perfectly square and accurate to the mm. Hopefully I've got the design right and it will all fit together.

 

 

Progress will be slow as my opportunities to use power tools and hammers are extremely limited, but I hope to have a pair of finished baseboards in a couple of weeks.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

[IanStock]

Hi David, yes you're right, but my reasons were different... I got as far as building about ten lengths of FineTrax plain track and three turnouts. I was having problems with the getting the blades to take to the tie bar, but that's all. My real issue was the size of the flanges on some continental stock - much bigger than on modern UK N gauge. That's why I switched first to 2mm Soc flat bottomed Easitrack - which is also nice to make up - and eventually to soldered track as it was the only way I could avoid having to re-wheel the stock.

 

If/when I go back to UK modelling, I will certainly give FiNetrax another look, though you're right, if you want custom turnouts there is still no substitute for building your own. I haven't found it too difficult, and the FiNetrax ones were definitely good practice for scratch building. I have so far done about fifteen and no failures... I will probably use either FiNetrax or Easitrack plain track in future too.

 

I'd urge you to stick with it - or even give a full scratch build a go. I'm using my FiNetrax jigs for that too...

 

cheers

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

I had a look at you blog via the link in your signature.

 

Am I right that you've not pursued the Finetracks much further than a test track and have now jumped into full scratch-building with copper-clad etc? 

 

I guess that sums up what appears to be Finetracks biggest challenge - as you have to solder up and file your own switch blades and tie-bar it doesn't seem too much of a jump to go the whole hog and build from scratch.

 

Perhaps this is best explained by suggesting that if there were a continuum between ready-to-lay peco and scratch built track; Finetracks are maybe 70% of the way along, instead of the 50% which would make them a "half-way house".

 

I am still in two minds, but in order to make the baseboards to my usual size (and in order to fit at home) I don't have much room beneath the baseboards for cobalts which would appear to be the ideal point motor for the kit built points.

 

Cheers

 

David 

[Pacific231G]

In my opening post I suggested I may commission professionally made baseboards.

 

However I have had a bit of a rethink, although my carpentry isn't the greatest I do enjoy it, and there is satisfaction in saying "I made that".

 

I explored some of the baseboard kits available from various sources, but I realised that these are simply a package of cut wood which you need to build yourself, yet as they are a baseboard kit they come at a premium.

 

I made enquiries with a local independent timber merchant, who confirmed that they could provide sheet materials machine cut to the mm.

 

After many, many designs sketched on scraps of paper I sent the following cutting list to the merchants on Wednesday evening.

 

1 x        1300mm x 300mm

1 x        1318mm x 59mm

2 x        300mm x 300mm

1 x        1318mm x 300mm

2 x        1318mm x 50mm

8 x        300mm x 70mm

1 x        1200mm x 300mm

2 x        1218mm x 79mm

2 x        300mm x 79mm

 

I got an email back with a price yesterday and having paid over the phone was able to pick up this package today. My very own personalised kit for two baseboards, machine cut, perfectly square and accurate to the mm. Hopefully I've got the design right and it will all fit together.

 

20160506_194600 (480x640).jpg

 

Progress will be slow as my opportunities to use power tools and hammers are extremely limited, but I hope to have a pair of finished baseboards in a couple of weeks.

 

Cheers

 

David

That's interesting David.I've been wondering about getting timber cut to size as I've never been good at making square cuts myself. Was it difficult to find a timber merchant who could cut that accruately and what sort of sheet are you using?

[dhjgreen]

...I don't have much room beneath the baseboards for cobalts which would appear to be the ideal point motor for the kit built points...

A number of people on here use micro servos (they are tiny) and a controller from Megapoints or MERG

[David41283]

A number of people on here use micro servos (they are tiny) and a controller from Megapoints or MERG

 

Thanks - yes, I am a member of MERG and as yet haven't made use of any of their kits.

 

I am considering their DCC control system for this too.

[David41283]

That's interesting David.I've been wondering about getting timber cut to size as I've never been good at making square cuts myself. Was it difficult to find a timber merchant who could cut that accruately and what sort of sheet are you using?

 

Hi - it is all good quality 9mm ply. I completely agree re getting square cuts - unless you have access to a decent workshop it is very difficult.

 

Most timber merchants do, so do stores like Wickes or B&Q - some people seem to get good results from these stores, but my experience has been mixed to say the least ("sorry Trev does that and he's not in today" etc). I am lucky that my local timber merchant advertises "trade, hobby and DIY" I just checked that they were happy to cut to the mm (some will only go to the nearest 5mm) and that they'd use a table saw or wall saw.

 

I would also say the advantage of a proper timber merchant as opposed to a DIY store is the relative quality and price - I feel I get a much better quality of ply at a much lower price inc cutting.

 

Cheers

 

David

[David41283]

Managed to get the fiddle yard board put together today.

 

 

 

A few of the parts weren't perfect, but they were dead square which made life easier. In addition to the 9mm ply, I also purchased a length of 34mm square softwood which I cut down into glue blocks to brace the corners.

 

 

 

You'll see only one of the cross-braces has large holes - I gave up on the hole-cutting drill in fear of losing a finger after this one and resorted to just a large drill instead! As this is the fiddle yard, I plan to have the point motors etc on the surface, so there won't be much wiring underneath.

 

There is a double layer of ply at the end which joins the other board, in order to take the dowels.

 

It still needs a lot of work with wood filler and sandpaper, but it is strong, flat and level.

 

Cheers

 

David

[David41283]

Hi everyone,

 

10 days on, and most of the structural work on the main scenic board is done. Still loads to do with filler and sandpaper, but again it is flat and level, and more importantly it is the same level as the first board!

 

 

 

I cut the far end open so that I can have one of the iconic views in model form. I wouldn't be able to take photos from this angle, or have much of a view of the famous station facade if I had used a standard, solid end piece.

 

 

I have also made a big decision and ordered the "finetracks" kits for the station. I've also purchased a pack of pcb sleeper strips from Marcway too, so that I can add a few soldered sleepers wherever I feel they may be needed. Hopefully this will give the compromise between the look of the finescale track, but with a bit more rigidity and longevity.

 

The next decision is power supply. I am usually an advocate of DC, but the Gaugemaster combi just seems a bit basic. I'm getting tempted by DCC again.....

 

I also feel the layout now need a better name. Fort Bill would seem logical for a shortened version of Fort William, but seems a bit of a cliche..

 

Cheers for now.

 

David

 

 

 

[£1.38]

How about Fort Nevis?

 

.

 

I also feel the layout now need a better name. Fort Bill would seem logical for a shortened version of Fort William, but seems a bit of a cliche..