Ffestiniog to build new Fairlie

[Andy Kirkham]

From http://www.isengard.co.uk/#News

 

A new double Fairlie, No.8 James Spooner, is to be built to replace the life expired Earl of Merioneth. The new loco will re-use the power bogies from the Earl of Merioneth but the rest of the loco will be stored in case someone wishes to fund the major work needed on it at some future date.

 

I remember being shocked and disturbed by Earl of Merioneth's brutalist look when it first appeared. Subsequent modifications softened its appearance, although I personally think it was a mistake to give it shiny brass domes - an unconvincing pretence that this was a 19th Century loco when it was so obviously modern.

 

I wonder if the Earl has earned enough affection from enthusiasts over the years to ensure its eventual restoration.

 

I also wonder if the new James Spooner will carry the bells on top of its boiler that distinguished the original.

[Edge]

Shame, I rather like the Earl

[alfsboy]

Wow

[2750Papyrus]

Hoped for a moment it was Moel Tryfan....

[exet1095]

This will go down very badly with my 7-year old daughter, who has loved the Earl since she was a baby. I suspect she will be designing train table-top restoration fund envelopes over the Easter holiday and having stern words with the GM...

[ngtrains.com]

This hasn't been fully annouced to the membership yet so this is really just a leak ahead of the facts. The full story and announcement will be in the imminent issue of the society magazine.

 

However, the short version is......

• The EofM's boiler is beyond economical repair when it gets to the end of its 10yr ticket in about 18 months
• The superstructure was built with material too thin and without enough internal staying. Its been constantly patched and welded since new.
• The size of the superstructure was built for a flawed requirement - to do a round trip on one fill of water and all day on one fill of fuel. This missed the point that the timetable actually has to written around the loco that can't pass a tap and needs fuel each trip. This requirement actually takes it over the lines axleload if you fill it right up!
• The cradle - a Fairlies equivalent of the main frame but is much flimsier - is knackered

They key word above is economical. The FR needs reliable Fairlies as the base of its service and the boiler on the Earl is knackered in that it will need new inner fireboxes and, possibly, throatplates in a boiler design which has some historic design flaws. These have been addressed partially in the Earl with a Mk1 fix and addressed more thoroughly in Merddin (same boiler design) with a Mk2 fix. Merddin is just coming to the end of a 10yr boiler overhaul and extensive work has been done to prepare that for another 10yrs but the writing is on the wall there too.  So the boiler is not irreparable just that the big pot of company money is better spent making a new one. 

 

When it comes to the superstructure its also at the end of its life and needs big money and the company and society have deemed that the money is better spent on making something more traditional looking. Its also worth remembering that as well as the big lumps like body and boiler all the smaller bits, injectors, ejectors and so on are also wearing [worn] out.

 

An advantage of the Fairlie design is that power unit and boiler maintenance aren't neccessarily linked so buillding the new boiler and superstructure now whilst the Earl is still in service gives three working double engines then when its done you stick the new body on the Earl's bogies and off you go with your new engine. The bogie overhaul or another pair of new ones can be treated as a seperate task.

 

A key bit of information to keep in mind is the use these loco's get. Now we have a water treatment regime that doesn't require washouts they are hot constantly from about now through to September and run 7 days a week doing, typically, 56 miles a day

 

[Nearholmer]

Er ...... I remember it being in the shop, under construction, so now feel old.

 

Of course, a really useful engine to fit the spec would probably be one of those diesel-electric Fairlies. It could be painted a nice old-fashioned colour, and have lots of polishable brass accoutrements.

 

Seriously though, I wonder what proportion of customers would alter their intentions if they knew that their train wasn't going to be pulled by a steamer? Is it steam or scenery that is the deciding factor.

 

Kevin

[Edge]

I think its a combination of both - I was most miffed when I had to be hauled by Vale of Ffestiniog up the line once but the scenery was brilliant as ever. 

 

Childish? Yes, yes I am

[pete_mcfarlane]

From reading the above, i can't help thinking that the railway could have avoided any possible controversy by just announcing the 'new' loco as a rebuild of Earl of Merioneth (in the best traditions of accountancy rebuilds). They could have also scrapped the remains of the original rather than having them take up space.... 

[avonside1563]

I'm not surprised by the news, it seems that the FR worskhop have as good as built a new fairlie over the years in repairs and replacements to the fleet during overhauls. A new boiler won't be a first on the railway either, many years ago it seemed that the welded boilers were almost seen as disposable rather than repairable.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I think there are a spare set of new water tanks built a while back, I wonder if these will be used on the new loco. Are there any parts of the old James Spooner around, as I thought the new Talisein was built around an old reversing lever and the loco then became a rebuild! 

[Edge]

I think some of the wheels are kicking around under other locomotives...

[ngtrains.com]

 

Er ...... I remember it being in the shop, under construction, so now feel old.

Me to. My first job at BL visiting as a BREL apprentice was to chain drill four sets of holes to insert the tubes through the tanks for the forgotten drain cock rods to run through. Took two and half days whereas now I'd use the rotabroach and have them done in an hour. On the Thursday I blagged a footplate ride on Blanche and that was me fully on the slippery slope.

 

 

From reading the above, i can't help thinking that the railway could have avoided any possible controversy by just announcing the 'new' loco as a rebuild of Earl of Merioneth (in the best traditions of accountancy rebuilds).

But this leaves the option open of future money fixing the Square and leaves it in traffic for now

 

 

I think there are a spare set of new water tanks built a while back, I wonder if these will be used on the new loco.

No, whilst 10 years ago when we built a jig for the assembly of a set of tanks for Merddin it was prudent to use the jig to build a spare set for the Earl they would require a lot of work to complete them. They were built for an oil fired loco so would need the gas axe taking to them for coal burning plus they were only welded enough to hold them together to be lifted out of the jig. They aren't water tight by a long shot. As the person project managing and fund raising for that job I expect to be fully accused of fraud and deception by the usual Mr Angry on the FR's yahoo bullsh!t group shortly.

 

Things have moved on. Boston Lodge now uses 3D CAD routinely and it spits out cutting list directly to our metal suppliers so this design will be a new go at getting the proportions right around a longer boiler than the original JS had (there are design, comaptability and bogie issue meaning the new boiler will be the same length as the 1968 Hunslet boilers coming to the end of thier life). With these new CAD and workshop tools we get another go at getting the proportions right with better than ever means to visualise it before metal is cut. When the design fixed the cutting list is e-mailed to the metal suppliers and two weeks later a lorry turns up with all the plates cut to size, tab and slot fixing and so on just like a big etched kit. Current metal prices also mitigate towards starting again over modifying the 10 year old ones

[Dava]

i can also recall the new Earl being built in the mid-70's, so its done nearly 40 years since, and as Paul says was lightly built to maximum size and weight. The imperative of the time was locos man enough to pull big trains Back to Blaenau [i was one of those shoving rocks on the deviation!]. I thought at the time it resembled a pair of NG J50s!

 

If you look at the range of impressive work Boston Lodge has produced since, and the difference David Lloyd George and Taliesin (yes, not all crew are fans!), then the opportunity to go to the next generation of Fairlies is the right decision to take. Just as the builders of the Earl spared the old loco to become Livingston Thompson as an 'original' FR Fairlie. The genius of the Festiniog Railway Co. is that it is living, busy, improving, yet enduring.

 

Dava

[DavidB]

I'm another one who will miss the Earl - I booked a driver experience day on the line, expecting one of the

Ladies, Tal or Lyd to be rostered, but I had an email from the railway a couple of days beforehand, asking if I would object to an upgrade to a Double Fairlie. Much as I love Linda and Blanche, I could hardly say no to an offer like that. So I had the pleasure of driving the Square through the Aberglaslyn tunnels and up the big hill to Pitts Head, as well as firing it (downhill, to avoid any embarrassments) from Tan-y-Bwlch to Minffordd. What a lovely machine to drive - bags of power, excellent riding and a beautiful smooth-acting brake for the long 1 in 40 descents. It became clear through the day that the crew from the Railway (Aled and Richard) had a real affection for the loco and its considerable abilities - by the time I was helping them to put the Earl to bed at Boston Lodge at the end of the day, I could completely understand why they liked it so much.

 

David

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Will the new James Spooner be simular to David Lloyd George or will there be modifications. Just wonder why when DLG was built that was not named James Spooner.

 

Will the new James Spooner have a parallel or taper boiler as the original had both.

[ngtrains.com]

To expand on the new boiler a bit further.......

 

The design is completed and signed off. The drawing for it was `leaked ' to FaceBook by the GM.  Its key features are: -

• Fits in the same space as Merddin & EofM's boiler (so a later fix to bring the Sqaure back could be to use this boiler design)
• Features pretty much the same outer shell as DLG but with the parallel sections lengthened to make the longer length
• Features the Merddin/EofM design of inner firebox

So its neither a parallel barrel raised top firebox like Merddin & EofM are now, nor is it a wagon top like earlier Fairlie boilers. The conical section gives it the look of wagon top from the side but not in plan. A wagon top looks parallel in plan. The conical section makes it self staying whilst the flat sides of a wagon top need cross stays which proved to be a bit of an achillies heel. DLG's boiler has inner fireboxes with radial stays to the outer wrapper and these have proved unreliable. Instead the Merddin/EofM design (and for that matter Linda/Blanche/Britomart/Hugh Napier and others) have girder stays which makes the top of the inner boxes self supporting

 

Work has already started in the metal with the delivery of the flanged throatplates for the new boiler to Boston Lodge.

 

Priority at the moment is the completion of Merddin's 10yr boiler overhaul with it all now going back together after some quite major work that pretty much proved the logic of having a new design ready and waiting.

 

The length is set to a large extent by the developed design of power bogie which now have a steam brake cylinder built into the rear of them and connected to the engine by flexible hose. This is far more reliable from both the maintenance and actually stopping you point of view so we wouldn't want to revert to shorter bogies to allow a shorter engine. The old short engines had a single steam brake cylinder on the firemans side (in the coal dust) and were connected to the bogies by pull rods, often all that applying the brakes did was take the slack out of the linkages - drivers of engines with this feature (and i only fired Merddin in this state) were very adept at stopping with the reverser. With only the inner axle on each bogie braked you need all the advantage you can muster

 

The advantage of pressing ahead at the moment is that Boston Lodge has the services of a couple of boiler work apprentices under the BEST sponsorship and now they've experienced major boiler surgery on an in service boiler they get to work with the BL staff on a new build. A great supply of labour to the project and great experience for them.

[wombatofludham]

Sounds a really interesting project.  I must admit I never liked the look of the Earl compared to the more traditional flat topped tanks of the other Fairlies but I appreciate it has it's fans.  The background to the project and the development of the FR fleet using modern technology and continual improvements makes for a fascinating read.  I look forward to reading more about it as time goes on.

[Dava]

Looks like Paul has earned the right to a blow-by-blow account of the build...artistry in steel!

 

Dava

[rockershovel]

Absolutely fascinating.

[Baldwin30762]

I am sure Paul will keep this list updated as and when, as for the square I sit on the wall as I did not dislike her, but I realised she was built to do a job and not necessarily to look pretty.

 

Reading what Paul has said about her in the past does not make her my favorite FR loco, sadly that one has been sitting at the back of the shed for some time, but I did read the GM has asked for a plan to be submitted at some stage for her to be put back through the works at some stage.

 

I personally think it is a good thing that we still have the facilities that can build steam locos, long may it continue.

[wombatofludham]

 

I personally think it is a good thing that we still have the facilities that can build steam locos, long may it continue.

 

It is also good that the FR have the apprenticeship scheme.  In an area with few real jobs (as opposed to poorly paid short time tourist work) we need more like this.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Are those new smokeboxes on ME? As the old ones the door seemed slighty too small. 

[ngtrains.com]

Yes. Stainless steel complete with new doors and a change to the way they seal

[Baldwin30762]

Well it wont happen overnight, but in the long term I know the L&BR in Devon are keen to establish a new workshop and hopefully an apprenticeship scheme as well, once we have planning permission for Blackmoor.