Kings Tawton

[Ramblin Rich]

I've been mulling over plans for a North Devon line scheme for more years than I admit (!), attracted to the early 1980s when there were short loco-hauled passenger trains with parcels, DMUs (including tail traffic) and various freight traffic (see North Devon line services thread)

My ideas went from a Lapford-ish plan in a conservatory, to a 12 foot space in a potential loft conversion (Tawford / Tawford Cross) - but that never happened due to a house move and a couple of turbulent years at work...

Now I have a small office space 8ft 6in x 6ft or a larger garage. I'm loath to move into the garage yet as it's not insulated or particularly well sealed at present. so thoughts have settled on a through station shoehorned into an 8ft x18in space, with passing loop, bridge at platform ends and goods sidings, borrowing elements from Eggesford and Umberleigh, with Lapford's freight traffic. In the office there's only space to have one (left hand) fiddle yard connected (extending into the corridor) but with a run off to the right incorporated to allow a second fiddle to be attached - I could take the whole thing into the garage for a full length version as & when, or have another set of boards to make a "roundy-roundy".

A few ideas, with variations on siding & building positions. I imagine 'Exeter' being on the left, with freight traffic reversing into the yard before proceeding on to 'Barnstaple' on the right. Passenger trains can pass in the loop. I'll need to think where signals should go in relation to the upper platform road / yard connection. I've reverted to Peco track geometry as it's apparent I don't have much space or free time to wrangle with track, but I may still self build the points if only to give less of a dog-leg entering the loop from the left.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did sketch out a full roundy-roundy within the office space too, but the curves are a bit tight for comfort & it would need too much in the way of removable boards and to keep the room useable

 

 

As always, thoughts and comments welcome - I'm not promising instant progress with this but they seem a bit more achievable than previous ideas! 

[DCB]

No 1 looks ok but 2 and 3 would be awkward to shunt with the kick back sidings requiring the main siding to be emptied to act as a headshunt, quite awkward and tedious to operate.

 

The continuous run looks a bit cramped to operate 64ft coaches and big (class 31?) Diesels. I would lengthen the loop towards the right and delete that kick back or just leave a short stub as a trap.  I would also change the hidden section, bring a continuous line forward and

 

I think it would be fine with 50ft or even 57ft coaches and 4-4-0s but that is not what you are after.

 

I had a continuous run in a room about 9X10 which was ok but I ran suburban coaches 55 ft? and tanks on passengers  and short freights and it sort of worked.  However it was high up at around 60" high across the door which gave a literal duck under rather than a crawl under. My door cleared the lift out section so I could leave it erected while going for a coffee etc.

[Ramblin Rich]

Hi David, thanks for the comments. I came to the conclusion that I don't want to use the roundy-roundy, it's too tight for regular stock & as I said, there would be too many boards to move to allow other use of the room. The other plans can sit on the bookcases when not in use & just have the fiddle board added to 'play'.

The problem with '1' is that there's very little space between the yard entrance & the right hand end when it's in the office & so would not allow longer trains to be shunted. I agree the 2 sidings there is more realistic, I'll have another think about how it might be done....

[Zomboid]

You'll need some kind of slip in there to get 2 sidings and a kickback in if you want them all to be longish.

Can you shift the platforms to the left so they extend under the bridge and you don't have to model so much of them? Don't know if that's a North Devon feature, but it's definitely found on the LSWR, at Botley and Axminster (I think) to name a couple.

[Ramblin Rich]

Hi Zomboid, thanks for the input.

The key feature for North Devon line which I'd like to replicate is a 3 arch bridge like at Umberleigh

http://www.reallygoodtrains.co.uk/images/859.jpg (Andrew Bartlett's "Really good trains" site)

So not really an option to loose the platforms.

I might drop the kickback/headshunt and just have trap points (as per Lapford) - more planning tonight if possible...

[Ramblin Rich]

A bit of tweaking & flipping round gives this:

 

 

which I quite look the look of, the old loading back as a kickback gives an additional shunting challenge. I've used a medium radius point for the kickbcak to save space but i think it would be ok as only freight would go that way. The look of the platforms & bridge reminds me of Umberleigh, with the sidings & short platforms from Eggesford - so on the right lines!

[D1072]

The middle line on the right of your plan could be a siding, or a truncated piece of former double track.   In which case it is likely to have survived as a PW siding.

 

On a school trip to Eggesford church in 1978 I saw a 31 hauling about 5 coaches, and a 3 car class 118 DMU hauling a GUV towards Exeter.

 

On 24 July 1982 at Barnstaple, in the centre road was 31258 plus one clay wagon and one GUV.

It is not a clayhood, being flat sheeted.   In fact I don't recall seeing pictures of any clayhoods in north Devon.   I saw a rake of 10 foot wheelbase wagons at Exeter in the early 80s which were all prenationalisation designs, with roller bearings.

There was a cement terminal at Barnstaple at this point, and in the morning I had photographed the 31 on its own in the former shed/goods yard area.

 

The afternoon photo is a distant shot of the short train from behind - there is a tail lamp on the GUV.   The photo was taken from track level behind the buffer stop on the middle road.  There was still track to the island platform, so I suspect it was still in use with a barrow crossing.

[TomJ]

Go N gauge!!! In 10x2 I've got a model loosely based on Crediton with space for 8 coach trains and a full length HST

 

Just to make you prevaricate some more......

[Stubby47]

Depending on the height of the layout, V1, V2 & V4 have the Station building and V4 the provender store as view blockers - this might become annoying.  

 

But, depending on the coupling choice (3 -link ?) having the yard closer (V4) will be easier to operate.

[Ramblin Rich]

Sorry for delayed reply, I've not had time to log in again this week so only just catching up.

 

D1072 (sorry I don't know your name), thanks for your comments. People have come up with a lot of info about the various trains along the line (see this thread as per the original post) & it's the short loco hauled trains, DMUs with tail loads & short but varied freight trains which attracted me to the early 80s setting. I hope to be able to replicate that variety. 

I know most of the clay traffic from Meeth went in the so called 'clayliner' wagons which were 10ft wheelbase wooden opens with roller bearing axleboxes and flat sheets, but some 'clayhods' also ran - there's a good picture of a long rake at Instow in the book "In the tracks of the ACE" and I also believe this photo from Dave Vinsen on the "cyberheritage" site shows 'hoods' in the train.

Depending on the height of the layout, V1, V2 & V4 have the Station building and V4 the provender store as view blockers - this might become annoying.  

 

But, depending on the coupling choice (3 -link ?) having the yard closer (V4) will be easier to operate.

I'm not too worried by the view blocking as it hopefully will divide the layout up & make it feel longer. I'll also most likely be using some form of auto coupling so not too worried about access.

 

Go N gauge!!! In 10x2 I've got a model loosely based on Crediton with space for 8 coach trains and a full length HST

Just to make you prevaricate some more......

I seem to remember you saying exactly the same thing in the "Tawford Cross" topic a few years ago...!

 

Another rework has given this version, which eliminates the kickback but still has a variety of shunting locations. The upper platform might need shortening but I'm not too worried as the platforms at Eggesford and Lapford are not that long in reality. It also has the benefit of allowing a baseboard joint in the middle with no pointwork in the way  

 

[Ramblin Rich]

14 Standard Operating Procedures, 35 Work Instructions and 12 Record Sheets later, I've had another idea:

 

Reversed the direction (of the neutron flow....). Now the sidings are accessed off the fiddle area, with the diary kickback from the other platform so no problems with train lengths now. Small amount of scenic area lost to give a small fiddle area on the right to allow trains to run around in the 'office' set up, but can connect to another full length fiddle when set up elsewhere. I've looked at this for a couple of days & can't see any real problems - so might need to make it...

[TomJ]

I rather like that plan!! It has the right 'look' in a small space and seems to have decent operating potential. Presumably the dairy could be any suitable industry you fancy for variation.

 

Now let's see some woodwork......!

[Ramblin Rich]

Thanks, Tom - yes I think I have "distilled the essence" of what I wanted to include down to it's bare minimum. Eventually it could be the core of the layout with extensions either side. You're right about the 'dairy link' too - it could act as the dairy in the late 1970s* then become the fertilizer depot in the 1980s time frame, as did the real Lapford dairy.

The next real life upheaval will be our kitchen renovations starting in 2 weeks, meaning a big sort out imminently; so as usual I don't know when I will start this project, but I must do this to let me put this plan to rest for once!

 

*when I can muster enough stock to run that scenario!

[MikeHohn]

Your newest iteration looks by far to be the best. You have already enumerated the operational advantages. In addition, it is going to look much better, more realistic. I think it will incorporate more smoothly into a larger layout.

[Ramblin Rich]

Here's the thing, this year is shaping up to be THE WORST of my life. Loosing parents, personnel cr*p at work, stupid, stupid political outcomes around the world. Listening to Bjork's "Play Dead" while I post these latest ideas seems to sum up things.

Anyway, too much time spent in my head, I need to get on with this. The last version is good but it seems wasteful to lose a foot of visible space at the right hand end, so I've gone back to having the bridge at the left hand end. 2 choices, either a version like Ken Gibbons "New Quay" with a kickback siding, or a version where the kickback is disconnected & overgrown, but with 2 sidings to shunt into off the main. Both have the advantage of only needing 3 sets of points (Ian Futers would be proud!)

 

 

Apologies, the graphics don't seem as good as previously.

 

As usual I'm having trouble deciding (no change there!). I'm leaning towards the 2 sidings version as it can offer an "inglenook" style shunting area and the disconnected line seems a likely "rationalisation" - I'd like to show a bit of the "crumbling edge of quality" as Sir Peter Parker* talked about. I could always reinstate the line if I could build a slip to drop in there...

Any comments to help my cloudy decision making gratefully received. 

 

* the BR chairman, not Spiderman!

[TomJ]

Sorry to hear about you're year - you're not the only one wanting to reboot 2016.

 

The more I look at that New Quay plan the more I like it - and I think it will work very well for your North Devon Line. I prefer option 2 with the Inglenook style sidings, although I think myself I'd go for the slip and keep the kickback as well. It's still only 3ish points!!

 

I think compressing trains is much better visually that compressing the scenery, loops etc. There are plenty of examples of 2-3 coach trains but trying to squeeze them into a platform barely any longer looks daft. Using this bitsa station approach avoids this

 

Just another thought for the same plan - how about a fictional place based on a Torrington style station - with passengers still remaining. So the half station can hold whatever passenger stock you want - with only the first couple of coaches on scene. Then the line continues as freight only to serve the clay works. The yard could be used for shunting clay wagons or for fertiliser/milk/whatever.

 

You could probably use the same layout for both a through station between Exeter and Barnstaple or as a small terminus.

 

Hope 2017 is an improvement (and sees some woodwork, track laying......)

[Pete the Elaner]

 The yard could be used for shunting clay wagons or for fertiliser/milk/whatever.

I think 'whatever' is the problem. The old fashioned 'station with goods yard' had gone by the 80's. Anything left would be dedicated to 1 type of traffic, probably 1 company's sidings.

Sidings on the prototype there for a reason, not so the operator can decide what to do with them later. I find this is a good thought pattern to follow with a layout too. Try to decide what the yard is for, then plan for it to serve a purpose.

 

Acton & Bletchley have aggregates yards close to their stations but they are a bit on the large side so they will not be of much use to you.

 

Colchester Hythe had a small Charrington's coal terminal both sides of the running lines (now gone) but this is the only one I can think of. The 08 from the main line's station used to pop over & move things around once in a while. There were usually around 6 HBA/HEAs scattered across 3-4 sidings. They looked like they were parked at random but I am sure there was a logic to it.

[TomJ]

That's what I meant by whatever! To chose one particular example from the prototype and use that.

The charm of the North Devon line is the variety of freight that lasted well into the 80s. Off the top of my head there was clay, fertiliser and milk from Torrington, cement and resin from Barnstaple and timber and fertiliser from Lapford. So I would imagine that the yard would be kept and turned over to one of those traffics

[Ramblin Rich]

Tom - thanks for the input and kind thoughts. I've extended the New Quay style plan a bit to give longer platforms - they're around 3 feet which isn't very long, but actually about scale length for some of the North Devon line stations. Lapford and Eggesford still have rather short platforms; Eggesford scales to about 2ft 9in, any loco hauled trains in the Exeter platform would have the loco plus 2 coaches alongside, the rest of the train trailing off down the line!. I'm not too keen to use the 'bitsa station' approach as trains on the lower track on the plan would have the locomotive under the bridge off stage, which seems a bit weird; I'd rather have the train held at a signal just before the bridge exit. A loco + 3 mk1 coaches still fits easily in the loop, 4 coaches would still be ok but too long for the fiddle yard I have in mind at home (but I can make extensions when room allows.... )

 

Pete - thanks for your ideas, but I've based this scheme on a long running idea to represent traffic on the North Devon line in the early 1980s, as per the link in the first post. This includes short loco-hauled trains, DMUs (some with tail loads of parcels vans) and freight. I've always intended to represent ('nick') the freight  from Lapford which surprisingly held onto a variety of traffic for a small out-of-the-way location; there was outbound timber and inbound grain and fertilizer at various times, plus through freight to Barnstaple including cement, resin, steel plates, animal feed and occasional military traffic too. Also traffic to/from Torrington, (milk until 1976, fertilizer until 1980 and ball clay from Meeth until 1982). So plenty to keep me amused, even if it would only be 1 freight per day each way it's as much as some steam era lines!

 

Sorry - Tom obviously replied as I was typing!

Edited November 14, 2016 by Ramblin Rich

[Ramblin Rich]

Latest idea, move the station building to the front as a view block so viewers can't look through the bridge. This allows a bit of scenery behind the upper platform. Disused line shown red

 

[The Stationmaster]

Latest idea, move the station building to the front as a view block so viewers can't look through the bridge. This allows a bit of scenery behind the upper platform. Disused line shown red

 

kt9 stn moved.png

 

Part of the red line would of course have to be retained as a trap for the sidings.  And don't forget that unless they are paved over in some manner the  building would prevent road access to the siding nearest the running lines.

[Ramblin Rich]

Thanks Mike. I had thought of the trap point requirement - honest! - but it does make it a bit difficult to represent without hand building the points. If there was/ had been a slip to access the kickback, then it probably would have been kept to act as a trap, but I don't want to use an off the shelf slip as it will cause an unwanted reverse curve into the siding / dairy connection.  Lapford had single blade traps within the points (eg centre of this view)  which I could attempt to represent, but then would the slip have been replaced with normal points when the siding became disused....? 

I do intend to 'bury' the tracks in the yard to allow access!

Incidentally, while trying to find pictures of Lapford, there's more good pictures on the Cornwall Railway Society's page including a shot about 1/3 of the way down of Lapford yard in 1986 with timber traffic and an 'auger' for unloading grain.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ramblin Rich

[ess1uk]

Interesting project.

[Ramblin Rich]

Thanks for the 'bump'! Haven't got anywhere yet, negotiating 'permissions' for room use, but have had another rethink, to get back to a continuous run so that our son can take 'play' as well - he likes shunting but would prefer a full circuit.

So:

 

 

This has a 'scenic' area between the overbridge and level crossings, with 3ft radius curves on the main and 7ft radius through the platforms. The 'offstage' areas have equivalent of  3rd radius (20") curves, might still be scenic but less realistic. I've put the fiddle yard tracks staggered to allow arrival / departure in both directions without conflict, but would include a crossover to allow full circuits to be run.

Managed to retain the diary connection and squeezed 2 sidings behind the platforms, but this might look better with a single siding and a kickback/headhsunt like this:

 

 

This needs mocking up to see if it would look ok; the loops have enough room for loco + 4x Mk1 coaches at a pinch but will look less crowded with loco + 3. This is probably the smallest I can go while retaining some realism and the look of the North Devon line.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Ramblin Rich

[Ramblin Rich]

Another year slipping past without noticing it.....

I have realized I have to weigh up ambition against ability. I can't keep saying I'll build something marvelous sometime, I need to build something now, however mediocre to get me on track as it were.

So,here's the latest: it's another roundy (big train set).

I've lost the 'old diary line' but got a more consistent curve radius around 30". It's Peco Streamline geometry, all curved points; I would prefer to use the bullhead pain track, but can live with the flat bottom code 75 points for now. Once it's laid, I can consider replacing the points if they get released in  the bullhead range or even hand buiild over time. I can get loco + 4 coaches comfortably in the platform lines. I would like to replicate the passing of trains with a signal box in-situ and signals intact as per Eggesford until late 1980s, with some freight activity nicked from Lapford...

I've actually mocked up this arrangement with some old track & cardboard boxes laid out. The coaches look acceptable on the 30" curves, especially as, viewed from inside the curves the coupling gap closes up. I think it would be better with a level crossing at the platform ends, again like Eggesford.

So time to get some boards made...