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Kings Tawton


Ramblin Rich
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Hi,

 

I like the idea of a fictionalised part of the "Tarka line" and the curvy rural simplicity of your design.

 

Your fiddle yard looks a bit odd - neither of the sidings is long enough to hold a loco plus 3 or 4 coaches. So it would be difficult to put a train together while another is running or store the 4 coach train while something else is running.

 

I notice you suggested a traverser or cassettes for the fiddle yard earlier so maybe your last drawing just shows an indication of where the fiddle yard will be?

 

Have you got accurate measurements for the room?

Edited by Harlequin
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Hi Rich

 

Just come across you layout planning.  I sounds like you have has a bumpy time and sympathies to you.  But as you now say, you want to get on with it.

 

If I can add a few obs from personal experience and perhaps ask a few questions? 

 

Firstly who is the layout for, you or your son, or both?  This is key as to what you end up building and are happy with.  I had planned a big layout with nice scenic sections and gentle (ish curves), but then came my 1st boy and then a second (7 & 4).  That layout is still a plan and will happen one day, but I needed to build a more achievable "play" layout for the boys and I am so glad I have.

 

OK is it a tail chaser 8x4 and totally unrealistic track plan, but the fun that is had far surpasses the r2 - r4 curves and funny scenic sections. BUT the layout has a lot of play factor, even for me as I have quite complicated shunting puzzle scope with it.

 

With two boys, I needed 2 train running capability, otherwise I will have been a referee signalman all the time!!

 

Second, can you build all the track in a very short space of time, but perhaps if getting the scenics done takes a long time?  Kids have a short patience level, they just want to run trains, we on the other hand want a nice layout with perfect scenery that we can disappear mentally into.  BUT, kids use their imagination to play and so a finished layout does not matter to them (much).

 

Oh yes young kids have no real concepts of era or region , they just see, steam, diesel goods or passenger and then they like certain colours.

 

So to the plans, I liked the plans back in post 24, as these had more shunting options. I also liked the dairy line.  But the off scenic part on the left to me looked a bit of a waste of space  just being single track, so the bridge element  in post 25 looks nice.

 

Have you considered having a double track section clockwise into the fiddle yard, over the door lift section?  I only suggest this as then you could then run longer trains (my boys love that) yet still pass each other at the station.  Being limited to 1+4 and only passing at the station might in the end feel too limiting "play" wise?

 

I am assuming all your track is level, so that will speed up the build.

 

My final suggestion and as you have yet mention control, go for DCC, you will never look back.  Also get two controllers, removes the sharing issue!!  And reduces the risk of head ons.  I have an NCE Powercab with a 2nd Engineer Cab throttle, the master unit can override the cab throttle, most useful.

 

Anyway, keep the faith and keep sharing your ideas, it all looks good and the build will be fun.

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi again,

 

Sorry, I couldn't help it - I was thinking about your design and I had an idea that I had to draw to see if it would work...

 

The idea is to keep the inside of the loop clear so that you can see trains running on plain track through countryside and so that the station platforms are close to the river, like Eggesford. Then put some goods sidings further along the line on the outside to make better use of one of the corners.

 

The three goods sidings are mainly parallel to the main loop to keep things realistically "linear" and the outer platform line can be used as a headshunt. So traffic can run on the main inner loop while shunting carries on in the goods yard. (Good for two operators.)

Edit: The three sidings would allow the "Inglenook shunting puzzle" to be played.

 

I've also shown an enlarged fiddle yard with another passing loop and thee storage sidings. The passing loop and one of the sidings are both long enough to hold 4 coaches + loco.

 

Min radius in the scenic section: 915mm (apart from curved points).

Min radius in the fiddle yard: 610mm on the main loop and less in the inner sidings (but that could be eased if you didn't mind losing some siding length).

 

I guesstimated the room size.

 

post-32492-0-11996100-1509498619_thumb.png

[Click to enlarge]

Edited by Harlequin
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Without prejudice to Phil's idea, which looks good, your last plan looks spookily like mine, which I have actually built, as a trial for the last great project (!).

 

post-6206-0-72114300-1509556162.jpg

 

From experience running it - make the two fiddle yard sidings as long as possible, curving them round to follow the main line can give you another coach length or two.  And stick a right hand point in the bottom left hand corner, it's a good place to change engines using a loco lift.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris

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Thanks for the comment s folks.

I should have explained the weird looking fiddle yard - it's basically 2 parallel straight cassettes of 4'6" which is long enough for a class 31 + 4 Mk1 coaches. I had the idea to have the entrance roads offset so trains can run out of the cassettes, cross over in the station the run onto the 'opposite ' cassette, without having to swap anything over.  The crossover in the middle of the fiddle yard show how there could be an alternative cassette with the dog-leg to allow continuous running of a single train.

Jaggzuk - I take what you said about play value, but our lad's actually quite cautious, doesn't like 'racing' and seems to enjoy having points, signals etc to set - so hopefully a realistically operated passing loop with sidings would keep him  + me amused! And yes, i am intending DCC, there's a TTS sound 31 in for a body swap to become a 1980s loco; if I like the chip, I'll get a couple more for my other 31s!

Phil (Harlequin) - I really like the look of that, it's definitely got elements of Eggesford. My room is 8'6" by 7'6", how big is that plan of yours?

I'd still like to keep the platform curves as large as possible, but the upper platform could probably go a bit shorter and bring the level crossing to the platform ends - as said before, the real Eggesford platform is quite short, around 3' would do. If I've got time I'll have another look at the mock-up. The only drawback is not being able to use flat boards! ;)

 

EDITED to correct room measurements!

Edited by Ramblin Rich
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Thanks for the comment s folks.

I should have explained the weird looking fiddle yard - it's basically 2 parallel straight cassettes of 4'6" which is long enough for a class 31 + 4 Mk1 coaches. I had the idea to have the entrance roads offset so trains can run out of the cassettes, cross over in the station the run onto the 'opposite ' cassette, without having to swap anything over.  The crossover in the middle of the fiddle yard show how there could be an alternative cassette with the dog-leg to allow continuous running of a single train.

Jaggzuk - I take what you said about play value, but our lad's actually quite cautious, doesn't like 'racing' and seems to enjoy having points, signals etc to set - so hopefully a realistically operated passing loop with sidings would keep him  + me amused! And yes, i am intending DCC, there's a TTS sound 31 in for a body swap to become a 1980s loco; if I like the chip, I'll get a couple more for my other 31s!

Phil (Harlequin) - I really like the look of that, it's definitely got elements of Eggesford. My room is 8'6" by 6'6", how big is that plan of yours?

I'd still like to keep the platform curves as large as possible, but the upper platform could probably go a bit shorter and bring the level crossing to the platform ends - as said before, the real Eggesford platform is quite short, around 3' would do. If I've got time I'll have another look at the mock-up. The only drawback is not being able to use flat boards! ;)

Hi Rich,

 

My drawing is 8ft 6 by 7ft 6. So, since I got the width right and I matched both width and height with your drawing, something doesn't add up...!

 

However, it should be possible to shrink the design by a foot vertically without any drastic losses.

 

Flat boards are for wusses!   :onthequiet: But really, it should be possible to use flat boards for all the trackwork except, conveniently, the removable section on the west. The river scene south of the station could be a separate dropped section - not true baseboard.

 

Edit: You could build a simple level removable section first, to get the basic layout up and running as Jaggzuk suggested, and later replace it with a dropped scenic version with the Taw running under the railway.

Edited by Harlequin
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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Rich,

 

Are you OK with me carrying on with my drawing and posting updates here? I think the design naturally just "works" (unlike many other designs that are unhappy and compromised) and so I'd like to tidy things up and fill in the details.

 

If so, and if you want to steer me and maybe correct things that I've got wrong, please let me know what you think should be changed. Feel free to scrawl red pixels on the bitmap above and re-post or PM me.

 

Thanks,

Edited by Harlequin
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You're welcome to pitch in Phil :)

I would say that the goods yard as you have it might be a bit cramped for what I would like. I want to use longer wheelbase air braked wagons - OTA timber carriers and PWA fertilizer vans, so the shorter sidings might be an issue.

Can you say what the curve radius on the platform lines are?

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Thanks Rich,

 

OK, I'll try to make the goods sidings longer by reducing outer platform length a bit.

 

The outer platform line is a compound curve going from about 1700mm (~5.5ft) radius to 915mm (3ft) radius - very generous!

 

BTW: There are currently only 5 points in the scenic area. Two are already large radius (purple) and the medium (brown) can probably be made large, so it's close to allowing the use of bullhead track and points - if it weren't for the pesky curved points, which are crucial in making the design work.

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Thanks Phil. An alternative might be just 2 sidings with the brown point removed. I would intend to use bullhead in the scenic area, hoping to disguise the normal code 75 curved points until they could be replaced!

Can I ask what design software you're using? It does give a good impression with the colouration

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Hi Rich,

 

Here's where I've got to. It balances practical modelling issues against prototypical features.

 

post-32492-0-38331600-1509870227_thumb.png

[Click to enlarge]

 

There are a few niggles and I've left out a lot of little details like machinery and piles of materials in the good yard. And I just realised I haven't shown a shelter on the south platform.

 

I'm using Xara Designer Pro but Xara "Photo and Graphic Designer" or Illustrator or Affinity Designer would also do the job. (Although Affinity doesn't have a feature to scale measurements yet AFAIK.)

 
You can see the details better and hide layers in this PDF:
(I'm not sure why the PDF is so big. I will try to fix it later.)
 
Edit: You can download the "Technical" font from here: https://fonts2u.com/technical.font (It's owned by Corel and they don't allow it to be embedded in PDFs...)
Edited by Harlequin
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EDIT _ Sorry, for some reason I didn't see Harlequin's reworked version before posting this!
A slightly better arrangement of the left side, longer siding now about 3'6" shorter siding just over 2', which will be sufficient for what I want to do. Some scenic ideas added. Like this, it looks rather more like Eggesford; admittedly very much compressed and with a opposite curve, but we have the loop, level crossing at the end of the platforms and sidings trailing off from the platform.

post-6864-0-16741400-1509883445.jpg

If I were to keep the 'geography' as with Eggesford (the 'up' line to Exeter is the upper loop line with the station building & sidings off there) then any goods trains arriving from Exeter would either have to shunt across to the opposite side, or travel 'down' to Barnstaple, run around there and return on the up side. Added 'play value'!

Edited by Ramblin Rich
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That's lovely looking plan there Harlequin, do you take commissions? ;-). 

 

I think the fact that you have managed to get 3 sidings in on the left will give a lot more shunting flexibility and puzzle opportunity.  I particularly like the siding running alongside the main branch line towards the viaducts, that will look nice the the buffer stop at the top of an embankment.

 

Seeing the plan in graphical form like this really helps to see that less is more.  I think Rich you have got a very nice layout plan here both scenically and operationally and I am really quite excited to see how this ends up in built form.  So very Devon esque!!

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Apologies to Phil (Harlequin) for overlooking that last post while I was doing my version!
That looks very nice. :) My only concern is the width of the boards, the top & right part is probably ok but the left board needs to be a bit narrower & the fiddle yard can't be more than around 9" as it will be sitting above the desk (which is where the mugs of tea & coffee can go! ;) ). Nevertheless, I think adopting a cassette version rather than fixed sidings would be workable & get over that problem.

The added scenic details make it seem a lot more tangible too. I would probably downgrade the goods shed to a concrete store as it's more typical of the line but otherwise this really does look doable. Many thanks for the input!

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That's lovely looking plan there Harlequin, do you take commissions? ;-). 

 

I think the fact that you have managed to get 3 sidings in on the left will give a lot more shunting flexibility and puzzle opportunity.  I particularly like the siding running alongside the main branch line towards the viaducts, that will look nice the the buffer stop at the top of an embankment.

 

Seeing the plan in graphical form like this really helps to see that less is more.  I think Rich you have got a very nice layout plan here both scenically and operationally and I am really quite excited to see how this ends up in built form.  So very Devon esque!!

 

Thanks,

 

It came together nicely and the simple station layout is just right for modern image. If it were steam era there would be a lot more clutter around!

 

I find drawing layout plans a very satisfying pastime. So, yes, in principle I'm up for drawing plans for people so long as it doesn't get too burdensome.

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Apologies to Phil (Harlequin) for overlooking that last post while I was doing my version!

That looks very nice. :) My only concern is the width of the boards, the top & right part is probably ok but the left board needs to be a bit narrower & the fiddle yard can't be more than around 9" as it will be sitting above the desk (which is where the mugs of tea & coffee can go! ;) ). Nevertheless, I think adopting a cassette version rather than fixed sidings would be workable & get over that problem.

The added scenic details make it seem a lot more tangible too. I would probably downgrade the goods shed to a concrete store as it's more typical of the line but otherwise this really does look doable. Many thanks for the input!

 

Thanks Rich, Glad you like it!

 

The river bridge baseboard could be thinner but you'd probably have to have a little fillet between that board and the top board to carry the line and a bit of scenery. (Out of interest, why does that section need to be removable?)

 

I didn't know about the desk and so I drew the fiddle yard using points so that construction would be quick and easy, there would be less manual fiddling and so there's a fixed loop for continuous running. I'm sure it can be rejigged as you describe.

 

I hope you and your family get loads of enjoyment from building and running your layout!

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Thanks Phil

I wanted to keep the left side removable as the room will still be used as a home office. I take what you say about the fillets, I drew curved joints on the side boards for that reason. It probably won't be removed often, but just don't want it encroaching too much. The top & right side boards are over bookcases & can be kept in place.

Once again, thanks for your work, you've certainly bought the idea to life. I hope I can make progress & do it justice!

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I wonder if you can't split the difference by fitting a third line into the bottom baseboard of Rich's latest plan, so as to keep the two cassettes but have a line between them forming a continuous run?  You could then have a down train tail-chasing (if only just for giving the motor an extended run) while an up trip freight shunts.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

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