bertiedog Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I suspect in the end the passing of Mashima will not affect things that much, only very specific products that rely on the exact fit. The Chinese will take up the slack as they have done with digital cameras etc, they make them to sell at the standard they are ordered to. Order cheap motors, and you get cheap motors. Top camera makers rely utterly now on Chinese production standards, and the Made in Japan label is fast becoming a thing of the past. I would not be surprised if a US/UK supplier jumps in with a branded range of Chinese clones very soon, to cover the models that sell well. In the meantime........ haunt Ebay for bargains!!! Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) In the light of the recent news concerning the demise of Mashima, I can advise members that I currently have in stock around 20 of the alternative Mitsumi motors which have been very well received; see post #17 at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98857-building-a-4mm-scale-mpd-midland-3f-0-6-0/ . Furthermore, I have ordered a further 100 motors for stock, which have already been despatched to me. Full details of ordering and pricing can be found at http://www.cctrans.org.uk/ . Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. The order for a further 100 motors has arrived in double-quick time, so I am now able to fulfil any and all orders for Mashima substitutes. M15N-3 spec sheet.pdf Note that the motors that I supply have a 12mm. shaft at each end. See http://www.cctrans.org.uk/ for full ordering details. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited June 11, 2016 by cctransuk 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 The 8volt spec should not worry anybody, we don't run locos at full speed all the time!!! Even 5 volt types are no issue apart from the cramped control knob range form 0 to 5 volts. These motors are very good, not that much power, but get the gearing right and they pull quite a weight, I would say at least 40:1, possibly higher for shunters and slow freight locos. With 100:1 they pull like blazes and do not struggle or get warm, but strictly for a slow loco. They mention scanners as a use, but the three pole is pretty universal in application. I did have one with a bent shaft, but it straightened up perfectly well in a lathe chuck, a drill chuck would do as well. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) The 8volt spec should not worry anybody, we don't run locos at full speed all the time!!! Even 5 volt types are no issue apart from the cramped control knob range form 0 to 5 volts. These motors are very good, not that much power, but get the gearing right and they pull quite a weight, I would say at least 40:1, possibly higher for shunters and slow freight locos. With 100:1 they pull like blazes and do not struggle or get warm, but strictly for a slow loco. They mention scanners as a use, but the three pole is pretty universal in application. I did have one with a bent shaft, but it straightened up perfectly well in a lathe chuck, a drill chuck would do as well. Stephen. Note the voltage range is 8 - 24v; this is perhaps why they run slower that the Mashimas on 12v. The consequences of this are excellent, smooth slow running and a realistic top speed - you can make much fuller use of the speed range of your controller. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited June 11, 2016 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) + These are also plentiful cheap, and powerful, with a range of final ratios. Noel Edited July 2, 2016 by Dazzler Fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The trouble with the gearhead type is the output, it is after a high ratio gearbox, and has to be turned at right angles at 1:1 to get to the axle, and 1:! cross helical gears are next to unobtainable at the right size and price. They are made and listed by UK gear factors, but one off prices are eyewatering.(£150 for example) There is another simple answer, and that is to use a rubber belt drive, twisted at right angles. At the low speeds involved at 1:1 it works well. The small belts needed are available from Nigel Lawton, or you can use O rings of suitable section. The shaft on the gear head needs a sleeve as there is a cut out on them for a grubscrew, and a sleeve to match could be added to the axle to keep it 1:1. The belt does not need to run with a pulley to guide it, the twist keeps it in place. Wear and tear seems low on a test vehicle I did, but if the O ring breaks, then replacement is quick and cheap! To increase the power through the belt you can put V pulleys on the motor shaft and the axle, but they will need to be custom made in a lathe. The V form grips more as the load increases, no slip at all at reasonable loads. Nigel Lawton's square section belts also works in a V pulley and he sells the pulleys, but they may need re drilling to fit the larger shafts. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Suitable bevel gears are easily available. http://www.motionco.co.uk/pair-bevel-gears-mod16-bore-p-146.html?search=bevel%20gears I used these with one of the gear motors above in my 00 scale 3d printed y7. Runs well, plenty of torque (pulled a 16t mineral with 600g of lead balanced on it). You just use a saw to remove the collar from the rear of one gear so it fits within the frames, then ream it out to 1/8" if using Gibson axles. Photos on: http://brackmodels.weebly.com/lner-y7-in-4mm-scale.html Suitable bevel gears are easily available. http://www.motionco.co.uk/pair-bevel-gears-mod16-bore-p-146.html?search=bevel%20gears I used these with one of the gear motors above in my 00 scale 3d printed y7. Runs well, plenty of torque (pulled a 16t mineral with 600g of lead balanced on it). You just use a saw to remove the collar from the rear of one gear so it fits within the frames, then ream it out to 1/8" if using Gibson axles. Photos on: http://brackmodels.weebly.com/lner-y7-in-4mm-scale.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) The bevels I tried out where not really accurate enough to use, despite the low speed application as the final drive. However I will try this brand that you have used with interest, as it is a sound arrangement. The expensive crossed helicals from the gear makers were not moulded, they were machined bronze gears. The previous plastic gears were not concentric to the bore, almost 10 thou out of true. or more, and were not truly round as well. They worked but had to be set to have a very loose tooth engagement, lots of play. As the rotation is slow it did not show much on operation. The drive was for an 08 diesel, so high gear ratios were of no concern, as everything is at low track speed. Stephen Edited July 2, 2016 by bertiedog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) + There is an arrangement with a reverse boss available for the tail rotor on helicopters (Model 450) made in a nylon that is slightly too large for 4mm scale I have reproduced this arrangement in FUD specifically with glue lines for 1/8th axle and tailored to the motor with its flat. Noel Edited July 2, 2016 by Dazzler Fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Bertiedog - they're worth a try for £2. I found they worked fine. If you're after very small bevels gizmoszone has 2 very useful 1.5mm bore sets http://www.gizmoszone.com/shopping/agora.cgi?product=Other_gear&user4=Miter_gear;ppinc=1a Obviously there's some really nice brass or bronze gears available but at a rather high price. Given the standard of the rest of my "engineering" the plastic ones don't pose me any problems in terms of tolerances... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Bertiedog - they're worth a try for £2. I found they worked fine. If you're after very small bevels gizmoszone has 2 very useful 1.5mm bore sets http://www.gizmoszone.com/shopping/agora.cgi?product=Other_gear&user4=Miter_gear;ppinc=1a Or could you adapt NWSL's Shay and Climax bevel gear sets? Just a thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Or could you adapt NWSL's Shay and Climax bevel gear sets? Just a thought Too big Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Too big The On30 ones are too big, but the HO ones are a good deal smaller, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 At current exchange rates NWSL products are way too expensive nowadays, the plastic bevels are better value. I have got in today by post from Ebay suppliers in China, the last of the relevant types from China to replace most medium Mashima sizes, and all test very well indeed, one or two seem near identical to types used by Hornby, but no worse for that, as they work fine. They are smooth and quiet, and only a bit noisy from the extra gears Hornby and Bachmann fit. A lot are double shafted to take a flywheel or drive twin gearboxes in diesels, or both. When used with a worm gear set like Markit or Ultrascale, then they are as quiet as any motor could be. I will go though the types and list them with dimensions. Most do not have the Mashima mounting holes, but can be fitted to a gearbox with epoxy or a metal strap. The quantity I have, about 24 assorted, came to about the cost of two Mashima motors! Some are bigger 00 types, some could even fit 2mm. I have not bought bigger versions for 0 gauge. There are masses of the larger general purpose motors that would suit 0 gauge. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I'd love to get my hands on a few of the motors Hornby use in the 4Mt, super smooth and quiet, not massive either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I have got in today by post from Ebay suppliers in China, What is the situation into UK with VAT on items from China? Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 What is the situation into UK with VAT on items from China? Noel You'd have to be pretty prolific loco builder to order enough motors for it to affect you at current prices! I think it's anything over £15 that attracts VAT, duty, and rip off handling charges from whoever delivers it. I haven't yet managed to buy anything from China that gets near that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 What is the situation into UK with VAT on items from China? Noel I buy motors in batches of 100 - so far, (touches head), without interference from any UK body. I did read, though, that HMRC are aware of the increased trade with China via Ebay, etc., and that usually means increased interest to the detriment of the purchaser. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 + I think the minimum needs to be reviewed. It has been the rate since VAT was first introduced. The amount includes Postage. Postage from US to the UK can easily exceed the Limit, increasingly so with the falling Pound, and makes quite small items available to charges.Last Christmas a friend got caught with a Parcel of Gifts, because there is a Limit also on the value of Gifts, devalued by the Pound! Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 G'day Gents Just bought these off of E-Bayhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-NEW-MITSUMI-Miniature-12V-brush-DC-motor-030-Biaxial-Motor/111922021295?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35377%26meid%3D600ffcead91d4a10aefc46f78c14ebcd%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D111922021295. Hope it works. manna Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 G'day Gents Just bought these off of E-Bayhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-NEW-MITSUMI-Miniature-12V-brush-DC-motor-030-Biaxial-Motor/111922021295?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35377%26meid%3D600ffcead91d4a10aefc46f78c14ebcd%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D111922021295. Hope it works. manna You cannot complain at that price, Manna I've got a few of these motors to hand from when John I of this parish first offered them - latest one has gone into a Dave Alexander G5, using a High Level gearbox (apologies, can't recall which one ). It runs very nicely. Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adanapress Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I'm reminded of the Portobello Market story about 'The Dog has died' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaselfish Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Interesting thread. I've ordered some of the Mitsumi motors as a result. I've also just re-read the section on motors in Ian Rice's Locomotive Kit Chassis Construction. He recommended the Mashima 1628 for larger whitemetal locomotives such as Merchant Navies and 9Fs. Has anyone identified an equivalent to the larger Mashimas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 ...... recommended the Mashima 1628 for larger whitemetal locomotives such as Merchant Navies and 9Fs. Has anyone identified an equivalent to the larger Mashimas? This? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) This? Very expensive, with too many alternative listings available. - and with fanciful P&P! Edited August 18, 2016 by Dazzler Fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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