Hornby Loco Loksound BEMF Settings - Request for Info

[Tony Burgess]

I'm wondering if anyone can share with me the CV settings for Loksound ver3.5 or V4 equipped Hornby locomotives.  We're talking CVs 53 to 56 in the case of a ver3.5, 51 to 56 for V4.

Before you ask - the Arnold/Hornby motor characteristics option in LokProgrammer 4.4.20 simply returns the default values, so perhaps ESU havn't got round to allocating them for Hornby motor installations yet.

So if you have a Ver3.5- or V4- fitted Hornby loco and know the CV values you are finding satisfactory, I'd like to receive them.  If sufficient come in, it might be worth posting as a file for others to refer to.

Judging by the Part Numbers on Hornby Service Sheets, several different motors may be fitted.  So it would help if I knew the loco Class and R-number or Loco Running Number so that hopefully I could nail the motor Part No.
    EG - Class 8F R2228 - 8510 ver3.5 by Howes:
        CV 053 = 048
        CV 054 = 032
        CV 055 = 024
        CV 056 = 064
And if using a V4, whether or not the CVs were "auto set" if you know that.

Many thanks.  Tony Burgess

[legomanbiffo]

Tony,

 

I suspect this will vary loco by loco as the mechanisms won't be exactly the same. Let me know which locos and I'll tell you what settings I have in mine.

 

Bif

[Tony Burgess]

My huge apologies for not having replied a year ago.  Should your kind offer still be open, there are two locos presently active (though only just) regarding Loksound v3.5s and they are

1) Hornby Light Pacific to Service Sheet 294D design with motor X4026

                    (eg R2218/19/20/21/60/79/82/83/86 & R2315/16/85/88 & R2436/58).

This motor is also used in the Rebuilt Light Pacifics to Service Sheet 298C design

                   (eg R2584/85/86/87 & R2606/07/08/09 & R2708/09)

          and Merchant Navy to SS267C

                   (eg R1038, R2310, R2466 & R2528/99)

and

2) Hornby Stanier 8F to Service Sheet 261C design with motor X9018 (eg R2227/28/29/49 & R2393/94/95)

 

Something cropped up which stalled progress on the Light Pacific sound file which I reckon I had 90% completed, and then other modelling things intervened which included helping Kernow with their Bulleid diesel-electrics project.  Right now I'm scratch-building the SR/BR Bulleid CoCo 20003 and hope before too long to start thinking about a suitable sound file for that.

 

Thank you

[wiggy1]

Hi Tony,

 

To be honest you need to do a auto tune if the locomotive is not running smooth but making a note of the settings is almost a wast of time.

This is my own opinion in my experience but others my have other opinions or solutions.

 

This is just an example.

I have four Bachmann 45xx new locomotives all run fine on DCC.

All have been run in for about 4-6 hours.

I've fitted sound to all of them and as soon as I do they run uneven and jerky.

On the first one, I ran the loco up to running temperature and performed 30 auto tunes and made a note of the BEMF settings.

On all 30 settings none were the same reading, some were close to each other and some were miles apart but the loco still had jerky running.

Now I've picked this loco as an example as for some reason they are notorious for jerky running.

After day's of messing I finally got it to run smooth.

I saved the settings and applied them to the other loco's, all ran uneven and had to be reset.

This has on occasions been the same for a lot of locos I've done, the saved settings have had to be tweaked in some way or re auto tuned.

I think the reason is that the ESU sound decoders are so sensitive on motor control that the slightest difference is amplified in the settings.

So you have tight motors and loose motors, worn motors and different manufactures and so on.

The same applies to Hornby locos, you normally get the surge at the beginning as it pulls away.

Steam locomotives show this up more so than a diesel as they have a larger wheel diameter so any slightest movement in the motor especially when stopping is exaggerated in the larger wheel diameter.

The most common thing is a jerking motion or surging when stopping.

The other thing to bear in mind is to do the auto tune on the track and not on a rolling road as you have less drag on the rolling road.

These are my own findings and conclusions but other people may have there own thoughts on this.

I've done over 100 locomotives and I must say about 65-75% of them needed to be readjusted.

I know this is not helping you with your list but may give an insight as to why you may not get what you are after.

Just interested in what sort of readings you are getting from your locos to be asking for a list.

 

I hope this does not sound to negative but just for information.

Regards,

Wiggy.

[scafellpike]

Hi Tony,

I can only endorse the findings of  Wiggy.  I have fitted ESU Loksound decoders to about 220 plus locos (Bachman, Hornby, Heljan and whitemetal kit built) and have found the auto-tune the only way to go.  My advice is to complete the installation set the loco up on a decent length of track (my test track is 3 metres and the loco can on occasion run for about 1.25 metres during the tune process).  If the loco then runs smoothly great, if not keep using the auto-tune until you get an acceptable result.  Whatever you do do not bother to set up the chuff sync until you have finished the auto-tune as the settings will need amending after every re-auto tune.  One thing I have found two identical Hornby locos that I purchased at the same time gave vastly different results the cause being binding of the valve gear, once corrected the auto-tune was done again and although the 2 locos settings ended up closer they did not result in a straight match

[Tony Burgess]

Thanks to you both - Wiggy1 and scafellpike.  What you report is absolutely relevant.  What started me on this aspect was that the ESU website gives suggested CV values for different manufacturer's motors, including Hornby-Arnold.  This to me suggested that some consistency might be experienced, but clearly this is not the case.

 

I do think it a little worrying that eg Wiggy1's jerky 45xx behaviour may be an intrinsic feature of ver4 Loksound decoders, suggesting to me that the circuit design is over sensitive and that it might be better to sacrifice in another area in order to facilitate installations.  I wonder if fitting eg Zimo decoders would have resulted in similar jerky running?

 

Many thanks, guys, for sharing your extensive experience!

[wiggy1]

  I wonder if fitting eg Zimo decoders would have resulted in similar jerky running?

 

 

 

 

Not having had to much experience with Zimo decoders and programming I must admit that from the little programming I have done with Zimo they do tend to run smother on the steam locos I have had experience with.

Not tried one in a Bachmann 45xx though and had no reason to alter the few I have programmed.

I'll stick with ESU but thats a personal choice.

Wiggy.