Phil Mortimers 7mm WorkBench - Mercian Vivian Style Garratt

[Simond]

It's the start of Autumn. It's the beginning of the academic year (which I guess affects you personally, I get it second hand - drove to Nottingham & back yesterday [~9 hours round trip] to install MasterD in halls of residence, and will spend this morning in Parents' meetings re MissD), and stuff goes on.

 

The sun's shining. Enjoy the stuff. The Garratts will be patiently waiting. Mine has waited so long I've forgotten what I was doing, why, and where the bits are. I'll have to relearn everything. I suppose I could order the motors.

 

Best

Simon

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks Simon,

 

Usuallly the summer is busy for me, tailing off as the new academic year starts. Once teaching and exams are over, the research advisors are back in the labs full time and cracking the whip on their research students, trying to get them finished up before the new year starts. There is thus a large demand on my services throughout the summer. With the start of the new year, everything calms down and reverts to normal, and this is the time of the year I usually take a break. Weather is usually better too - not too hot, not too cold. However, this year, my parents have descended on me for a number of weeks, so that cramped my style a bit. They head out to Denver tomorrow and peace and order will return to my life!

 

However, like you, I will have to remember where I got to when I restart work on the Garratts. I did get a large delivery of various diameters wire and tube when my parents arived, so I can crack on with things like brake gear now. Plus the gearboxes arrived - as recommended by Giles, I'm replacing the supplied gearboxes for better low speed running.

 

Mor,e soon.

 

P

[PhilMortimer]

So, having had a fun 12 days of my parents visiting, I despatched them off to Denver and the west yesterday and it is time to start getting back to normal. As you may recall, i was attempting to fabricate the steam pipes that reside between the frames and are somewhat visible from the front of the loco in the space underneath the bufferbeam. This can be seen here on the real loco.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45131642@N00/12149735895/in/album-72157640174384343/

 

My version will be somewhat representational, as it will be largely hidden under there and barely visible. Basically, I just need to fill the space with something that looks vaugeley right..

 

My first attempts ended in spectacular failure, with lots of bent and crushed tube. Then Diane suggested plumbers solder, due to its relative ease of bending. This seems to have worked a treat.

 

There are two sets of steam pipes down there, inlet and exhaust. One set is basically a Y, with some odd bends in it. The others extend back through a bulkhead and are simpler to make. I decided to do the Y first.

 

8 pieces of plumbers solder were cut off the real and rolled straight. Each had one end cut and filed at an angle of 45 degrees.

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

These were then held at right angles and soldered together using 100 degree solder and the iron set at 200 degrees. This allowed the solder pieces to be soldered (!?!) together to form a strong joint without melting the solder pieces.

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The right angle assemblies were then bent to shape to approximate the shape of the steam pipes. A jig was used to ensure that the bends were consistent.

 

Once completed, a flat was filed in the apex of the right angle assembly and an overlong tail piece solderd on to complete the Y. The soldered joints were then cleaned up,

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The pen markings identify which assembly fits to which power unit.

 

I probably need to add some flanges on these, and possibly some "lagging", made from paper strip. But as it will be barely seen, I probably won't go full out on this. It is just a space filler after all. Now I need to make up the other set of pipes before fitting this lot to the frames and soldering on the bottom cover plate.

Edited September 26, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Some more work done on the pipework between the front frames. The exhaust lines were bent up to shape and solderd to the previously made Y's. I then started triming these down so they were an exact fit in the frames. As shown below, two sets have been completed - I still have two nto finish, before soldering into place. It was getting late and I decided to stop before I screwed things up.

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Fettled version on RHS, uncompleted ones on the left.

 

I hope to get these finished up and soldered into position in the next couple of days.

 

PM

[N15class]

That's some interesting modelling.

[PhilMortimer]

Lets see how it looks once soldered into position. Looked OK with the trial fit. Most of the underside is covered, so it will just be what can be seen from the front (under the bufferbeam). hence, I'm not going to town over this. It may turn out to have not even been worth doing once installed and the cover plate fitted - we'll have to see at that point and i'll let others decide!

 

P

[PhilMortimer]

The last of the steam pipe assemblies were filed to size last night. They are now ready for soldering in place.

Edited September 28, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Work and life in general has been getting in the way of modeling this week. I just haven't been able to get long periods of time to devote to the garratts, and so progress has been erratic. But I have now completed installation of the steam pipes and underframe cover.
 
As you may recall, I had made up various assemblies from bent and soldered plumbers solder to form the steam pipes between the front frames. These assemblies were to fill the gaping space under there, which in reality is pretty full of pipework as shown below (Picture by Phil Parker)
 
Cylinder Front 2 by Phil Parker, on Flickr

To mimic this, I made the following assemblies from plumbers solder.

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

These were then filed to size and carefully fitted into the frames. The assemblies were left slightly oversize so they were a push fit into the frames. After alignment, they were permanently soldered into place using 100 degree solder.

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr
 
A large plate is bolted to the bottom of the frames as is seen in the real life picture, enclosing the space in which the steam pipes are installed. This was added to the frames as shown below.
 
. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr
 
The back of the plate went on fairly easily, but there were some gaps along the sides. There were also some gaps between the end of the cylinder wrappers and the frames. To strengthen everything (and to stop the bottoms of the wrappers unzipping!), these gaps were filled with thin brass strip and / or wire, flooded with solder and smoothed back. It looks a little rough in the picture above, but is better in reality.
 
Finally, the prrof of the pudding  - the view from the front.
 
. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Yes, I know there should be various flanges on the pipework, but once painted dark grime, I doubt that it will really be noticeable that they aren't there These pipes are really just to fill the big empty space between the frames under the bufferbeam, which i think would be noticeable if some representation of the pipes weren't there.

 

So was all the hassle and faffing around worth it? I think so, but what do YOU think?

 

Now this is done, the next thing is to fit the guard irons (although i notice they aren't present in the picture of the real loco above) and the brake hangers. Oh, and finish the slot for the drawhook!

Edited October 6, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[jim.snowdon]

The plumbing is a nice piece of work, as well as inspirational. Who would have thought of using solder, soldered together.

 

Interestingly, the angle iron that runs across the front edge of the bottom cover is drilled, so I would presume that as built, there would have been a front cover plate as well, enclosing the pipework completely. Typically neat, tidy and a pain in the proverbial to any fitter who had to get in there to deal with any leaks, so I would not be at all surprised if it got unofficially "lost" whilst the locomotive was in service.

 

Jim

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks Jim,

 

Yes, looking at that bottom plate and the flange with all the holes on it at the front, I also suspect that there was an additional front cover when first delivered. I'll need to check the GA and see if it's there. However, like many of these things, ease of access probably resulted in its "loss" by fitting staff quite quickly! I think it's a peculiarity of British railways that most loco's were designed to look "neat and tidy" with fittings hidden away between frames and behind panels, rendering them inaccessible to maintenance staff on an easy basis. If you look at continental or North American loco's, they were strewn with most of the additional paraphanalia hanging off them on the outside, where they could be more readily accessed. It may have made a less pleasant looking loco, but was probabaly a darn siite easier to keep running!

 

One thing I find interesting is that the pipework is basically fabricated and bolted together. I would have assumed that there would be some massive casting between the frames containing at least the high pressure steam pipes (and probably the exhaust ones too). It would also have helped resist the piston forces flexing the frame. OK, there wouldn't have been a smokebox saddle as in most conventional loco's, but still, I would have expected a casting. I wonder how easy it was to keep those steam pipes steam tight?

 

The idea to use plumbers solder was Diane's. She was fed up hearing the muttering and cursing coming from my side of the workroom everytime I crushed a tube. Plumbers solder was about the right size, relativly easy to bend to shape and could be soldered using a temperature controlled iron (200degC) and 100 degree solder. She has absolubtly no interest in railways or modelling, but tolerates me doing it. She's pretty good with tools herself and is good at thinking outside of the box.

Edited October 6, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Wet day yesterday, so was able to work on the garratts. Spent much of the time slotting out the bufferbeam slots for the draw hooks. Idiot that I am, I should have done this when making the buffer beams, instead of just driling a pilot hole. It would have been easier to do this in the flat off trhe model. Still, I have completed two, one has been roughly slotted and one is still to be started. I had been putting this off for some weeks so it was good to get on with it. Didn't turn out to be as difficult as I expected, just time consuming.

 

Basically the procedure was to extend the hole into a slot using a narrow diamond grinding bit, then diamond files. Some thin brass shim was then solderd to the interior of the slot to give the final letter box shape. I will try and get some pictures tonight of the process.

 

Not very interesting, but nessecary.

 

P

Edited October 9, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Remaining drawhook slots on the other two power units finished last night. Pictures to follow.

[PhilMortimer]

OK, so bufferbeam drawhook slots.

 

The Picture below shows the basic steps in froming the slots. On the left we have the bufferbeam with the pilot hole drilled in it for the drawhook. This is much to tall and needs elongating sideways. The filing marks are scribed into the green sharpie pen. In the middle, we have the basic drawhook slotted out using a smal grinding tool and diamond files. Correct width, but too deep. The RH unit shows the finished bufferbeam after insertion of strip shims at the top and bottom of the slot, soldering and  filing back. Job done! OK, it would have been better if I'd done this before fitting the bufferbeams to the chassis, but I was an idiot and didn't plan ahead. I reserve the right to screw up once in a while! I could have taken the beams off, but they are fairly securely attatched to the chassis now, as well as being re-inforced, and so I considered that it was easier to deal with in situ.

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The following pictures show the process in more detail.

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The above picture shows the bufferbeam with the original hole for the drawhook and the marking out for roughing out the slot.

 

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Slightly out of focus picture showing the roughed out slot, mainly hand filed. tedious, but has to be done carefully. Correct width, but too deep as a result of the initial pilot hole.

 

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Difficult to see, but in the above pictures, the upper and lower shims are held in place (with a cocktail stick) and the join flooded with solder (188 degree) to fill any gaps.

 

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The shims are then ground back to near the bufferbeam surface using a grinding tool, and the residual stubs (along with the excess solder) filed and sanded off to leave a smooth surface. After clearing out the swarf from the slot, job done! Unless you look closely, its difficult to tell the slot has been reduced heightwise.

 

So there we have it. Now I just have to fit the drawhooks themselves.

 

. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Onto the gurad-irons, and then the brakes.

Edited October 11, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[jim.snowdon]

I assume you have checked that the castings for the buffer guides do fit their holes?

 

Jim

[Simond]

and, given the proclivities of this kit, that the said holes are symmetrically disposed about the centre line...

[PhilMortimer]

Hi Jim, Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

The bufferbeams are not those as supplied with the kit, but replacements fabricated by myself (see posts #63, 65 and 68).  The originals had various dimensional issues, the drawhook slot was WAY to big and it had those enormous frame slots in them that were assymetrical. The replacements were made from thicker sheet brass, doubled up and laminated to give some greater heft to them. These were filed to size before marking out the buffer and drawhook positions. The buffer holes and pilot hole for the drawhook were marked out from drawings and the whole lot drilled out. I made an idiotic mistake in drilling the drawhook hole too big, this the work to turn it into a slot previously described. I compounded the error by fitting the buffer beams to the chassis / frame units before sorting out the problem - it would have been easier to resolve in the flat. But heh, I got there in the end.

 

The holes for the buffers were drilled and reamed out to the correct soze for the buffers and so should be a tight fit. I hope to fit those shortly after working out how to secure the drawhook.

 

The guardirons were solderd top the frame fronts last night, but have yet to be bent up to shape.

 

Hope this clarifies things.

 

PM

Edited October 12, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Small amount of propgress over the weekend. Figured out a way to attach the drawhooks, so prepared the mounting points. The drawhooks will be fitted after painting.

 

Started to add the WM spung buffers. 4 are fitted, but one has a blow hole in the casting. I have tried to fill this with solder, but it still needs filing down. If it doesen't come out right, i will remove it and replace.

 

The guard-irons were bent up, but looking at the photos, i need to make the bends shallower.

[PhilMortimer]

In the end, I just couldn't repair the damaged casting to my liking. It kept cracking. I have removed it and replaced it with one of those from the other kit. The damaged casting is being returned for repalcement. I do however, also have incluided in the kits two sets of solid buffers and may give it a go on drilling those out and using the existing heads. OIn the meantime, I will start concentrating on making up the brake mounts and rigging.

 

PM

[PhilMortimer]

Gentle progress.  A new buffer housing is on its way to me courtesy of the nice Mr Mercian Trevor. I have to say that although this has been a very difficult build, Mercian provide excellent customer service. I forsee a Hunslet Austerity making its way to me before too long.......

 

So with the new buffer on its way, I have held off messing around with the solid ones. Instead I have started to work on rebuilding the ashpans, that I cut off a while back. These are tricky to re-assemble correctly, due to the angles in volved and whilst I haven't made much progress so far, I have tried out some ideas (that failed!) and have a better handle on how to proceed.

Edited October 18, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Well, the nice thing about a brass kit, it is relatively easy to unsolder things when they go wrong! As I know from having taken the ashpans apart multiple times. It's only 4 pieces of brass. How hard can that be?

 

To be fair, it was never going to be easy. They weren't designed to be assembled like this, originally having been attached to the firebox bottom. But I recall, even then the actual hoppers didn't go together very well, due to the front and rear panels being slightly on the small side. The hoppers were removed some time ago, due to concerns re clearance with the rails, being seperated into their component parts when doing so. So this is largely down to my doing, not the fault of the kit. The problem is now gettiung everything to go back square with no alignment or registration aids. The awkward shape doesen't help. The big problem is working out how to jig everything together into place for soldering. Once I crack this, there should be progress.

 

Still, it WILL get done - will just take a while to work out how to do it. I may divert onto other things whilst doing so to break up the frustration!

Edited October 19, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[Simond]

Phil

 

I’ve not done mine yet, so this is hypothetical.

 

Could you sand a block of wood to the shape of the inside, and use elastic bands or similar to hold the pieces in alignment?

 

Best

Simon

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks Simon,
 
I had been thinking of how to make some formers, but hadn't thought about using a block of wood. I'll give that a try, though it may be a few days before I can get back to this. The only problem with wood would be if I were to use the cooks flame for no-touch soldering - could get interesting ad smelly!

[Simond]

No worries, dampen it, it’ll only scorch a bit, and it’ll hang in there for two ashpans!

 

Best

Simon

[Giles]

I can't remember how I jogged mine up, but this was the result. After I had soldered it in place on the loco, I then cut the bottom half off again, and removed about 1.5mm for clearance, and soldered it back on again!

 

IMG_1597 by giles favell, on Flickr

 

IMG_1599 by giles favell, on Flickr

 

IMG_1618 by giles favell, on Flickr

Edited October 20, 2017 by Giles

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks Giles.

 

Like you, I originally built the ashpan up as part of the lower firebox. And like you, I took the lower hopper part (RH in last picture) off due to height concerns. The problem I am having is that the hopper seperated into its 4 consituent pieces whilst and I need to put them back together, which has been quite difficult to do getting everything lined up. Still, I like Simon's idea of a wooden former and over the next few days, I will make one up and get back to it.I just need to work out the angle of the ends of the hopper first. And make a quick trip to western PA over the weekend.

 

In the meantime, since most of the heavy high temperature soldering to the boiler units is now done, for light relief,  I have added the topfeeds, saftey valve base and whistle / manifold to them This means that I can now start piping up the boiler units as and when i get time. Still gotta build those injectors and sump boxes first. The safety valves themselves will bprobably be attached with a dot of epoxy after painting.

Edited October 20, 2017 by PhilMortimer