Modern Image London

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

Hey all,

 

My current layout is a rural/suburban based N gauge layout, set nowhere in particular. Because of an inevitable house move within 5-7 years, I have decided that in the future, 00 gauge will be my kind of scale (as I modelled in 00 gauge foe a good 7 years).

 

My ideal layout would be an urban/suburban South London based layout, and in terms of track plan I would choose to base it on a similar plan to either Battersea Park Station, Penge West, Kensington Olympia or maybe Willesden Junction. I wouldn't be modelling these stations down to a T, but they would merely be used as a rough base to give me a decent head start on constructing the layout.

 

I have tried to model London before, and failed miserably. I want this layout to be a clear representation of London, so that when you see it, you know straight away where it is supposed to be set. The problem I have found is that there is a general lack of urban-based modern image 00 gauge products, and a lack of buildings and details that represent that of features in London. 

 

 

I guess scratch building is an option, but I have never scratch built in my life! Well, I tried to scratch build a waiting room but it turned out looking more like a building that the bomb squad's had a go at!   

 

So, what products are available that would help represent a clear example of a modern image London/South London?

 

Anyway, Cheers for any help/suggestions,

Matt

 

P.S. Lack of rolling stock for this area is also a problem, but I'm prepared to wait until an inevitable electrostar model is released, which I'm sure it will be at some point!

[Nick Holliday]

I'm afraid I can't help regarding modern buildings, but I would say that the current edifices beings built alongside the tracks in south London are not exactly redolent of the area - most modern architecture is national. To get the south London effect I would have older style buildings in the background with a modern building or two in front. Street Level Models from CDCdesign might be a source of London-style buildings, both as low relief or back scene flats. modelrailwayscenery can provide downloads of slightly more modern buildings as does Scalescene.

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

I'm afraid I can't help regarding modern buildings, but I would say that the current edifices beings built alongside the tracks in south London are not exactly redolent of the area - most modern architecture is national. To get the south London effect I would have older style buildings in the background with a modern building or two in front. Street Level Models from CDCdesign might be a source of London-style buildings, both as low relief or back scene flats. modelrailwayscenery can provide downloads of slightly more modern buildings as does Scalescene.

 

Thanks for your help, I'll have a look

 

Cheers,

matt

[bensanchez43310]

I say willesden junction may be a good start. The tube and the majority of mainliunbe stock is available, 47s,50s,34s,85/6/7s,90s and the modern LM and VT units like the Desiros and Pendolinos and super voyagers or voyagers in the VXC days. I am happy to go out and snap a few shots when I go out there later this week. As well, in the freightliner terminal there is an amazing variety of stock from 66's to 56's, there was a smoking ex fertis 56 there in jan.

 

Cheers, Ben

a lot of the buildings there are modern and easily made from cardboard too

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

I say willesden junction may be a good start. The tube and the majority of mainliunbe stock is available, 47s,50s,34s,85/6/7s,90s and the modern LM and VT units like the Desiros and Pendolinos and super voyagers or voyagers in the VXC days. I am happy to go out and snap a few shots when I go out there later this week. As well, in the freightliner terminal there is an amazing variety of stock from 66's to 56's, there was a smoking ex fertis 56 there in jan.

 

Cheers, Ben

a lot of the buildings there are modern and easily made from cardboard too

 

Thanks for your help Ben, some photo's would be a brilliant inspiration

 

The rolling tock would certainly be an interesting variety to recreate.

 

Cheers for commenting,

Matt

[knitpick]

If you're interested in relatively modern stock in current liveries, Bratchtell Models (web www.bratchellmodels.com) do a lot of SR EMUs - 455, 456, 319 etc.  They come ready painted and look good but I have no experience of building one - I keep baulking at the price.  However with the current trend for Bachmann MU prices, perhaps Bratchell aren't quite so expensive after all?

 

As for buildings, the Wills modern industrial kits look good.  For station buildings etc, the Bachmann 1930s style station building looks the part to my eyes - especially for London Suburbia.  They also do a (low relief?) Underground station on a corner.  Also Bachmann did a typical Southern sub station - necessary for 3rd rail.  They also have the modern waiting shelters albeit in blue rather than the more common for London red.

 

Finally, large areas of London have the railway on arches with small businesses underneath; for these I would use the Wills arches.

 

Just some thoughts that might help.

[Fat Controller]

For me, one thing that says 'London' to me are those blocks of brick-built flats that have an open walkway along the front of each storey. They seem to have been built over a long period of time, initially as part of slum clearances, then later to replace bomb-damaged homes after WW2. They seem to be all over the capital, often close to the railway.

[kevinlms]

a lot of the buildings there are modern and easily made from cardboard too

That is not far off the truth. Some recent Melbourne apartment blocks have apparently incorporated building materials, with fake documentation on its flame resistance. Also some dodgy electrical cable was imported & the cable sheathing perishes after about 5-7 years. There is a recall on it, but it appears that the amount removed is only a small percentage of that sold. So a lot of builders/electricians are denying having installed the rotten stuff.

[newbryford]

For buildings - I agree with the Wills Modern range - SSM300 is the base model which can be adapted for industrial, commercial or retail use with the relevant add on packs.

 

One advantage of modelling the current scene ( I dislike the term "Modern Image", but that's been discussed elsewhere - many times) is that you can just go out and photograph it. Then build it!

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited May 31, 2016 by newbryford

[wirey33]

Nothing says "South London" better than 3rd rail and one of the numerous privatised rail companies that have had a go at operating commuter services over the years.

 

You could do a cameo of angry commuters with pitchforks chasing a manager down the platform as another train gets cancelled.........

[Nearholmer]

The most distinctive feature of "London rail-side" is the sheer diversity of buildings, all jumbled-up.

 

Ten minutes on the DLR (because I'm riding on it right now), and one gets to see Victorian warehouse and workshop buildings, lots of those "walkway flats" mentioned above, including some very early ones, allotment gardens, a Hawksmoor church, plenty of hyper-modernity, a load of rather seedy early twentieth century buildings etc etc....... And, not far from Tower Gateway station, bits of Roman walls.

 

Even railway architecture ranges from high-Victorian to built-yesterday, cheek-by-jowel.

 

Somehow, to get the look right, you'd have to portray that mix. There was a brilliant N gauge layout, set in South London, that got it spot-on, but I don't recall the name.

 

K

[rob D2]

If you look at James makins superb rendition of urban London, those characteristic houses with the basements are rather complex.

 

Personally I'd do something based on Olympia, with the arse end of Earl's Court in low relief, and stacks of graffiti as well as some London Underground stuff.

 

That would say to me - Lahndan

[bensanchez43310]

If you look at James makins superb rendition of urban London, those characteristic houses with the basements are rather complex.

 

Personally I'd do something based on Olympia, with the arse end of Earl's Court in low relief, and stacks of graffiti as well as some London Underground stuff.

 

That would say to me - Lahndan

 

Agreeing with rob D2

[bensanchez43310]

You can model Olympia but the capitalstars and electrostars aren't RTR and they have to be make from turbostars with cab ends from james makin. Olympia also has a lot of freight and passenger through the heart of London but lacks the range of stock unlike Willesden junction

[Nearholmer]

How much space is available?

 

An extract of Willesden Junction, focusing on, say, the upstairs and downstairs passenger stations, and the loco depot (or whatever it I s called these days) would be pretty big, even in N gauge.

 

K

[rob D2]

You can model Olympia but the capitalstars and electrostars aren't RTR and they have to be make from turbostars with cab ends from james makin. Olympia also has a lot of freight and passenger through the heart of London but lacks the range of stock unlike Willesden junction

 

 

Yes agreed, depends on level of detail you want really. I'd incorporate a little slice of the underground, because TBH, if you have a London transport roundel anywhere, it can't be anywhere else than the smoke !

[Revolution Mike]

Somehow, to get the look right, you'd have to portray that mix. There was a brilliant N gauge layout, set in South London, that got it spot-on, but I don't recall the name.

 

Stoney Lane Depot or Hedges Hill Cutting possibly? Both by Grahame Hedges and superb slices of inner and outer (respectively) London.

 

Cheers, Mike

[knitpick]

For me, one thing that says 'London' to me are those blocks of brick-built flats that have an open walkway along the front of each storey. They seem to have been built over a long period of time, initially as part of slum clearances, then later to replace bomb-damaged homes after WW2. They seem to be all over the capital, often close to the railway.

 

I half agree with you.  The clue is "bomb damage".  To me they are primarily reminiscent of the East End albeit South East London as well.  It was the docks that got most of the bombing.  South and South West weren't that badly damaged.  Yes there were the odd "bomb sites" but most of the housing was (and still is) late Victorian / early Edwardian multi-storey, often with basements.  A little further out you come to the 1930s style.  If the OP is interested in South or West rather than South East, (as the suggested locations would imply) then sorry - few if any blocks of flats.  And those that there are would likely be system built tower blocks.

[Nearholmer]

Here is a shot from the Council for the Protection of Rural England's website.

 

This website is very useful http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/v/greater_london/hammersmith/NottingHillLondon-hc23549a.jpg.html

Edited May 31, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

The most distinctive feature of "London rail-side" is the sheer diversity of buildings, all jumbled-up.

 

Ten minutes on the DLR (because I'm riding on it right now), and one gets to see Victorian warehouse and workshop buildings, lots of those "walkway flats" mentioned above, including some very early ones, allotment gardens, a Hawksmoor church, plenty of hyper-modernity, a load of rather seedy early twentieth century buildings etc etc....... And, not far from Tower Gateway station, bits of Roman walls.

 

Even railway architecture ranges from high-Victorian to built-yesterday, cheek-by-jowel.

 

Somehow, to get the look right, you'd have to portray that mix. There was a brilliant N gauge layout, set in South London, that got it spot-on, but I don't recall the name.

 

K

 

I very much agree. I have travelled through London numerous amounts of time, being a Londoner myself, and there is a very clear mix of buildings as you have described.

 

The layout wouldn't by any chance be Stoney Lane Depot would it? Only I have seen it online a few times and is another excellent example of a typical South London scene.

 

Cheers,

Matt

[Glorious NSE]

Ref the above pic of Willesden - Bing's aerial view will also be pretty good over most of London I suspect, and Google Streetview is good once you narrow down to the area you're looking at.

Some of the discussion might depend on what you call "London" - pre-war blocks like this: http://www.lovelondoncouncilhousing.com/2013/05/in-shadow-of-canary-wharf.html were built by the LCC, so you'd expect similar design to pop up piecemeal across the area's of what later was known as "Inner London" - (boroughs of Camden, Greenwich, Hackney, Hammersmith & Fulham, Islington, Kensington & Chelsea, Lambeth, Lewisham, Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Wandsworth, Westminster a quick google suggests!)

The basic concept of those flats seemed to stay the same from the 30s to the 50s, some are a bit "art-deco-ish", some are a bit "modernist" with flat roofs etc - but the brick and linear balcony design is a common feature...

You will see developments of older "low" blocks of flats further out into South/West London (and all other directions as well) though as well as the ubiquitous semi's we all think of, take a look at Bing overheads for the likes of Raynes Park for example, and there are plenty of large (but lowish) developments of flats which I suspect date from between the wars.

As you're modelling "now" - In the last decade or so, many brand new blocks have popped up just about anywhere there is vacant land and a handy railway station - the OP mentioned Battersea Park - that's now got a "Berlin Wall" of new flats as a backdrop. London prices being higher tend to mean that you tend to get a more varied use of materials in their construction (well, their presentation) than in most other parts of the country, they don't tend to look like boring grey boxes now. 

The semi has been mentioned and is a real outer London "commuterland" generic structure - but something that hasn't been mentioned is that where you have a terrace the style is subtly different to that of terraces outside London - there was some kind of a rule in London that terraces should have a firebreak wall right up through the structure - a terrace elsewhere in the country would probably have been built originally with one long loftspace above all the houses - a terrace in London generally has the dividing wall protruding up through the roofline, preventing a fire from spreading through the loft spaces down the whole street. Also as you're talking modern era - property prices in London are unbelievable - the visual upshot of that is that older terraces in London will tend to be much altered compared to their original configuration unless there's some kind of preservation order, roof lines altered with large loft conversions, extensions on the rear etc...

In terms of the railway - in the inner London area at least figure on your railway being visually either above or below, not at ground level - that'll be important for a layout design point of view...

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

If you look at James makins superb rendition of urban London, those characteristic houses with the basements are rather complex.

 

Personally I'd do something based on Olympia, with the arse end of Earl's Court in low relief, and stacks of graffiti as well as some London Underground stuff.

 

That would say to me - Lahndan

 

Hey,

 

Yes, I have seen 'Loftus Road' many, many times and often turn to this layout for inspiration. I admire it greatly, especially the new scratch built houses that he/they installed!

 

Olympia does stand out to be the best option, although Loftus Road is also based on Olympia, and I wouldn't want to be stealing any ideas. I'm sure I'll be able to tweak it in my own way and make it unique.

 

His electrostars are also superb. They are the perfect element to add to that London feel.

 

Cheers for commenting,

matt

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

How much space is available?

 

An extract of Willesden Junction, focusing on, say, the upstairs and downstairs passenger stations, and the loco depot (or whatever it I s called these days) would be pretty big, even in N gauge.

 

K

 

I'm looking to build the layout eventually into a size of around 12-14ft in length, and roughly 2.6-3ft wide. It would probably be divided into 3 or 4 sections of around 3 ft long, and maybe a large fiddle yard at each end or around the back to make it easy to move if necessary. I'm beginning to feel as though Penge West or Olympia would be a better option than Willesden actually for the exact reason that you have listed.

 

Cheers for commenting, 

Matt

[Southern_Trains_Fan]

Ref the above pic of Willesden - Bing's aerial view will also be pretty good over most of London I suspect, and Google Streetview is good once you narrow down to the area you're looking at.

 

Some of the discussion might depend on what you call "London" - pre-war blocks like this: http://www.lovelondoncouncilhousing.com/2013/05/in-shadow-of-canary-wharf.html were built by the LCC, so you'd expect similar design to pop up piecemeal across the area's of what later was known as "Inner London" - (boroughs of Camden, Greenwich, Hackney, Hammersmith & Fulham, Islington, Kensington & Chelsea, Lambeth, Lewisham, Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Wandsworth, Westminster a quick google suggests!)

 

The basic concept of those flats seemed to stay the same from the 30s to the 50s, some are a bit "art-deco-ish", some are a bit "modernist" with flat roofs etc - but the brick and linear balcony design is a common feature...

 

You will see developments of older "low" blocks of flats further out into South/West London (and all other directions as well) though as well as the ubiquitous semi's we all think of, take a look at Bing overheads for the likes of Raynes Park for example, and there are plenty of large (but lowish) developments of flats which I suspect date from between the wars.

 

As you're modelling "now" - In the last decade or so, many brand new blocks have popped up just about anywhere there is vacant land and a handy railway station - the OP mentioned Battersea Park - that's now got a "Berlin Wall" of new flats as a backdrop. London prices being higher tend to mean that you tend to get a more varied use of materials in their construction (well, their presentation) than in most other parts of the country, they don't tend to look like boring grey boxes now. 

 

The semi has been mentioned and is a real outer London "commuterland" generic structure - but something that hasn't been mentioned is that where you have a terrace the style is subtly different to that of terraces outside London - there was some kind of a rule in London that terraces should have a firebreak wall right up through the structure - a terrace elsewhere in the country would probably have been built originally with one long loftspace above all the houses - a terrace in London generally has the dividing wall protruding up through the roofline, preventing a fire from spreading through the loft spaces down the whole street. Also as you're talking modern era - property prices in London are unbelievable - the visual upshot of that is that older terraces in London will tend to be much altered compared to their original configuration unless there's some kind of preservation order, roof lines altered with large loft conversions, extensions on the rear etc...

 

In terms of the railway - in the inner London area at least figure on your railway being visually either above or below, not at ground level - that'll be important for a layout design point of view...

 

Hi glorious NSE,

 

Yes, the pre-war/pre 21st century look of buildings toward the Southern region of London (particularly places such as Brixton and Bromley) is very clear. I think in terms of capturing this South London feel, flats and 3+ storey terraced houses (with the firebreak wall as you mentioned) will certainly be included. Hopefully by mixing all of this in together with more modern buildings (apartments, retail, warehouses etc.) I should just about be able to capture the setting that I'm after.

 

Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail, much obliged!

Matt

[bensanchez43310]

With that space that's gonna be a monster layout, Willesden can be easily recreated