brossard Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Hi all, just getting back into the game after a long break. I've always wanted to make a LMS Pull&Push train but have been stymied by lack of coaching stock. I did construct a Comet kit but put it aside after realising that the fully lined period II livery is beyond me. (I have been mulling converting the thing to PIII and giving it the simplified livery - that's another thread). Hornby's LMS NC BT coach offers the best chance yet of doing a relatively simple conversion to driving trailer. So far, I've determined that the Hornby models (# 20724 & 20725) are from D1907, built 1934. The nearest equivalent DT, I think is the D1856 (#24410 - 24429), built 1932 - 38. I did hit one snag - the photo of the D1856 in E&J's LMS Coaches does not have ducket, whereas my model does. I'm tempted to go ahead with the conversion and to ignore this discrepancy since I would deem the risks associated with removing the ducket as high. I'm curious to know if anyone has given consideration to this. BTW, I have been preparing 2 locos - a Jinty and L&Y 2-4-2T. I found a couple of good pics of examples with vacuum reg. gear and was able to scratch build a reasonable representation. Cheers John Edit - I never learn. On first glance, the duckets appeared to be moulded to the body. A second look revealed that they are separate and come off with some firm persuasion. This leaves two holes to be filled and touched up, which is not too difficult (I hope). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted June 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 7, 2016 If you read the topic on the Hornby NC Suburban coaches. On the Hornby pages of this website you'll find DT's are talked about. And what could be done. This is one of those modelling jobs I would like to do. One day. So will be interesting to see how you go about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Thanks Farren. I did do a search but didn't find anything. I'll take a look. The mod is well in hand at the moment. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hi John, I'll be watching with interest as it's on my to do list too! At least the comp and third are already the right diagrams. My initial reference point for info on these is LMS journal no 12. If you don't have it I'll dig it out later. It will have info as to whether all the conversions did lose the Duchess or whether there was a mixture. Who's push pull end are you using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hi Pete. Good to hear that you're interested in this. I always to prefer to see if anyone has done the job - better to let others blaze the trail. As it is, the ducket removal does leave a tricky fill job. I will have to touch up the lining with HMRS transfers. I have a full set of LMS Journal so thanks for the reminder. If some PIII coaches had duckets, I'll be pretty mad at myself. I'm using the Comet (now avail. from Wizard Models) end which is a perfect fit. John Edit: Yes, indeed, I do deserve a thump . According to the article, most PIII coaches were built w/o duckets. However, D1735, #s 24470 & 24471 had them. Apparently these were conversions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 Well, it's taken a while but I've nearly finished two (yes two), pull push trains. Locos are a Jinty (7479) and ex L&Y 2-4-2T (10644). Both of these were auto fitted according to LMS Locomotives and an article by Tim Shackleton in an MRJ from a few years ago. I'm unsure whether the driving end had a lamp in the LMS era. I have a pic from the BR period which does. I will add a bulkhead to the drivers compartment. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 What was involved in the conversion and did they survive to BR times? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted August 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 6, 2016 I would be interested in the process. They do look very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 The push-pull Jinties were used on services on the line from Swansea St Thomas to Brynamman via the Swansea Valley; not sure where else they were used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 Gordon, the process wasn't that involved. I used Comet driving trailer ends, cutting away the existing end just enough. You will need to fashion guard irons - I used some scrap brass strip shaped appropriately and soldered some wire to them. I drilled the plastic and glued them in. I got fancy and cobbled up a drivers console, based on a picture of the inside of a DMU cab. The really scary part was removing the duckets - you might be forgiven for ignoring these. As discussed earlier, most PIII coaches were built w/o duckets. There were, as noted above, a couple built during the transition from PII to PIII that retained duckets. PIII coaches built before 1934, when the simplified lining came in, were given the full Midland treatment - something I wanted to avoid. The duckets on these are held in with two pips and they pop out with a bit of persuasion. This leaves two holes needing to be filled. I did this and patch painted starting with red oxide primer and followed up with crimson (Badger DM & IR crimson to be exact). I reinstated the lining using HMRS transfers. The cool Pl & Ph on the end is from a Modelmaster set for these coaches. I installed stand pipes and a steam heating pipe. Because the coach will never be coupled at the driving end, I used screw link couplings. The drivers handrail is 0.45mm NS wire. I drilled the plastic sides and filed it flush - do this before painting. Getting really pedantic, I don't like the moulded security bars on the door window, third from the end. I made some from wire and scrap brass, gluing them behind a plain window. The only downside is that this window is not flush. There is a wiper on the center window - made from a couple of pieces of NS wire soldered together. You'll want to be careful when handling the coach - the trusses are very fragile, and I broke several. My underframes are a mishmash of Comet kit (because I had a part built kit done when Hornby brought these out) and Comet components - hopefully you'll be able to get away with using the stock U/F. The only thing I did to the non-driving trailers was change the numbers. Car paint restorer takes off the old numbers. I have a picture of one in the BR era - got it from here, it's very good. Don't know much about their BR history though. Thanks Brian, I shall invoke rule 1. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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