First steps in P4- third loco complete

[pete_mcfarlane]

Late last year I got an invite to join the Nottingham Area group of the Scalefour Society, which I took up. I'd been a member of the society for a few years without really having done anything in P4, so it' seemed like a good idea to actually build something in P4!

 

My long term plan is to model bit of the Southern railway/region roughly between 1930 and 1970, so having built up a fair amount of stock it seemed like a good idea to do something different for my P4 adventure, rather than try to re-gauge all that stock. The latest edition of Scalfour News even suggests that OO modellers should do just that, so I must be on to something. 

 

So for my first attempt I decided to go back in time to pre-grouping days, and have a go at a Chatham Kits LCDR 4 plank wagon. Starting with a wagon seemed sensible, as I've built about 200 in OO over the last two decades.....

 

This turned out to be quite a cleverly designed kit, with a combination of a cast body, etched floor and a casting for the underframe members. All quite straightforward and built as per the instructions, apart from replacing the etched brake block with a beefier looking plasticard one and using some Guy Rixon's 3D printed buffers from Shapeways. I'm not sure if these are quite right for a LCDR vehicle, but they look nearly correct and made springing the buffers a lot easier than using the slightly undernourished ones that came with the kit. 

 

Wheels from Exactoscale, painting was with Valejo acrylics, using a suitable mid-grey for the body colour, and finished with Fox transfers. All in all it's rather a nice little wagon. 

 

Next up is a Bill Bedford LNWR One Plank, more details once that's complete. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[Guy Rixon]

Hi Pete, I'm glad that the buffers worked out for you. In fact, they're to an SER/SECR pattern, so could appear on an ex-LCDR wagon in SECR ownership. The LCDR used, I think, 4-ribbed buffers. If you plan to do more LCDR wagons then I could draw some more-nearly correct buffers for you.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Hi Pete, I'm glad that the buffers worked out for you. In fact, they're to an SER/SECR pattern, so could appear on an ex-LCDR wagon in SECR ownership. The LCDR used, I think, 4-ribbed buffers. If you plan to do more LCDR wagons then I could draw some more-nearly correct buffers for you.

I guessed that they weren't quite correct, but couldn't quite tell from the limited photos I had of the wagons in LCDR days what type they had. Round based 4 ribbed buffers would definitely be useful for modellers of pre-group wagons, if you did do them. 

[Guy Rixon]

Ok

 

I guessed that they weren't quite correct, but couldn't quite tell from the limited photos I had of the wagons in LCDR days what type they had. Round based 4 ribbed buffers would definitely be useful for modellers of pre-group wagons, if you did do them. 

OK, I'll see what I can do. I don't have component drawings for these, but can get quite close from photos and the overall drawings of wagons.

[garethashenden]

I guessed that they weren't quite correct, but couldn't quite tell from the limited photos I had of the wagons in LCDR days what type they had. Round based 4 ribbed buffers would definitely be useful for modellers of pre-group wagons, if you did do them. 

Would these buffers work? http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2309.php

[pete_mcfarlane]

Indeed they would, but I wanted to go all posh and have sprung buffers. 

[Guy Rixon]

LCDR buffers are now up on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/DWZ8THJJZ/lcdr-buffer-guides-for-wagons-x20-4mm-scale.

 

This is a beta product until I've had a chance to test print it and time for anybody to challenge the scale fidelity.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Thank you - I'll shall pop in an order to Shapeways and try them out. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

A bit more progress - I'm part way through two more wagons. 

 

On the Left is a Bill Bedford LNWR one-plank wagon. This is my first sprung wagon, and my first go at a resin bodied wagon. It turned out to be pretty straightforward, although I deviated from my normal approach of building then painting, by getting the body to a completed state before fitting the sprung underframe (as I guessed that spraying the sprung axleguards after assembly would gunge them up). The numberplates were knocked up on the PC and printed on a laser printer. 

 

On the right is a David Geen LSWR van. I've built a few of these before in OO (I'm doing the meat van in OO at the same time as this), and I can never quite get them square so resort to using a MJT inside bearing compensation unit at one end. It's not yet fitted, in case you were wondering why it looks a bit lop sided. Again it's a pretty straightforward kit. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

I realised that I'd not updated this for 3 months. Despite that, I have been making some progress. 

 

The Bill Bedford LNWR wagon is now finished. A nice straightforward little kit.

 

I've also nearly finished the David Geen LSWR van - it just needs couplings. Painted using Precision LSWR/SR brown and lettered using the LSWR transfers off the HMRS sheets of Southern wagon lettering. I have several of these from doing dozens of Southern liveried wagons down the years, so now I've found a use for some. I've up ended it to show the inside bearing compensation unit.

The latest wagon is another from Chatham kits - this time a dumb buffered PO. This was slightly more tricky - the brake gear was designed for a longer wheelbase than the solebars, which I only discovered when I came to fit it. After some careful surgery (separate it in to 3 sections and glue back together again) the shoes now fit. I also replaced the brake lever (in the singular - none of this modern nonsense of a lever either side!) with some etched parts off a Mainly Trains fret I'd had for years. Another nice kit, except for the brake gear. 

 

I also need some track to run these things on! C&L had a special offer on P4 point kits over the summer, so I bought one (an A5) to try out. This is the result of a couple of hours work during Thursday's NAG meeting.

It's pretty straightforward, but a lot more time consuming than my previous attempts at building copperclad track.My only real issue was getting my head around the slightly too complicated system for numbering the components - the template uses one scheme, the sprues of parts another, and there's a little key printed at the bottom of the template to do the translation. I also deviated fromt he instructions in two ways - I've firmly stuck the bases down to the bit of MDF using double sided tape rather than blutak (I don't trust blutak not to move) and I'm going top build the thing using a set of track gauges. The instructions say that you can rely on the moulded pips to do the gauge alignment, which may be true but doesn't 'feel' right. 

 

There's also now a High Level Barclay 0-6-0T in the to do pile, once I've got a suitable test track.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Pete

 

Hope you are keeping well, sorry I have been away for a while.  An interesting foray into this scale, I have always like the look of the proper scale gauges however doubt I will enter into this as time for modelling is a bit low and the cost of redoing all my stock is a bit prohibitive, although, you never know one day maybe.

 

Keep up the good work

All the best
Chris

[hayfield]

 

I realised that I'd not updated this for 3 months. Despite that, I have been making some progress. 

 

The Bill Bedford LNWR wagon is now finished. A nice straightforward little kit.

100_0208.JPG

I've also nearly finished the David Geen LSWR van - it just needs couplings. Painted using Precision LSWR/SR brown and lettered using the LSWR transfers off the HMRS sheets of Southern wagon lettering. I have several of these from doing dozens of Southern liveried wagons down the years, so now I've found a use for some. I've up ended it to show the inside bearing compensation unit.

100_0209.JPG100_0210.JPG

The latest wagon is another from Chatham kits - this time a dumb buffered PO. This was slightly more tricky - the brake gear was designed for a longer wheelbase than the solebars, which I only discovered when I came to fit it. After some careful surgery (separate it in to 3 sections and glue back together again) the shoes now fit. I also replaced the brake lever (in the singular - none of this modern nonsense of a lever either side!) with some etched parts off a Mainly Trains fret I'd had for years. Another nice kit, except for the brake gear. 

100_0211.JPG

I also need some track to run these things on! C&L had a special offer on P4 point kits over the summer, so I bought one (an A5) to try out. This is the result of a couple of hours work during Thursday's NAG meeting.

100_0207.JPGIt's pretty straightforward, but a lot more time consuming than my previous attempts at building copperclad track.My only real issue was getting my head around the slightly too complicated system for numbering the components - the template uses one scheme, the sprues of parts another, and there's a little key printed at the bottom of the template to do the translation. I also deviated fromt he instructions in two ways - I've firmly stuck the bases down to the bit of MDF using double sided tape rather than blutak (I don't trust blutak not to move) and I'm going top build the thing using a set of track gauges. The instructions say that you can rely on the moulded pips to do the gauge alignment, which may be true but doesn't 'feel' right. 

 

There's also now a High Level Barclay 0-6-0T in the to do pile, once I've got a suitable test track.

 

Peter

 

Here are the instructions from C&L with the numbering

Switches  http://www.finescale.org.uk/pdfs/LH%20Switches.pdf

Common crossings  http://www.finescale.org.uk/pdfs/Common%20Crossings.pdf

 

On the C&L Home page click on Knowledge Centre

Then click on Knowledge Centre home page

Scroll down to 4 mm instructions and click on Exactoscale - Instructions (4mm) - covering Track

 

What is a bit confusing is I have found that as well as the Exactoscale turnout and crossing kit plans not matching up with the C&L plans (same person produced them) they also differ from the Exactoscale chair guides. I use all 3 as a reference to each other. It is a little confusing but these extra guides are very clear to understand. I have not made a kit, but regularly use the parts and they are so easy to use only requiring the minimum number of gauges. looking good by the way and the next one will take a fraction of the time to build

 

Also there is a mistake on the common crossing sprue where chair 7E is shown as a second 7C. Having said all this the P4 track bases are a great improvement on cutting individual chairs from a sprue

Edited October 17, 2016 by hayfield

[pete_mcfarlane]

Here's the Chatham kits PO wagon, shown ready for painting back in October. Several months later and it's finished in a fictitious private owner livery. Lettering is mostly from ones of the sheets of individual letters sold by Modelmasters which I'd had in my box of transfers for years. It was slightly tricky getting it to fit over the cast strapping detail (which I suspect is probably over-scale anyway). I'm rather pleased with the end result. 

 

 

The point is also pretty much done, bar fitting a suitable tie bar. I also have a few lengths of C&L track, so I can put together a short test track to test these out on. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'm hoping to start on this in the next week or so - I'm being good, and trying to finish off a few other models first before starting on another. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a High Level kit for a Barclay 0-6-0T of the kind used on the Waterside system in Ayrshire amongst other places. Some of these lasted until the late 1970s and at least one ended up painted in a bizarre livery of blue with a yellow cab and bunker. Mine will be modelled much earlier than this, and as a fictional example (livery still to be decided on).

 

 

 

I've used a couple of High Level gearboxes in previous loco builds and been pretty impressed with how well they went together, so I'm looking forward to trying one of his kits. I've built quite a few loco kits in OO, but this will be my first attempt in P4, not to mention having to tackle a few things I've not tried before (a compensated chassis, outside cylinders and rolling a boiler from a flat etch). I deliberately picked a High Level kit for my first go as they've got a pretty good reputation, so I'm hoping this should be fairly straightforward if a bit time consuming. I'll keep everyone posted with my progress. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[PenrithBeacon]

My experience of High Level hasn't been a good one but that was because I tried to run before I could walk as it were.

 

I think it's best for the inexperienced builder to try another suppliers products first.

 

All the best with your new build

[hayfield]

My experience of High Level hasn't been a good one but that was because I tried to run before I could walk as it were.

 

I think it's best for the inexperienced builder to try another suppliers products first.

 

All the best with your new build

 

David

 

Very good general advice, however some folk are able to put their hands to things much easier than others. Certainly I prefer to build with whitemetal, but a well thought through etched kit should be within the ability of a competent modeller. And the best whitemetal kits have etched chassis anyway. plus brass can be more forgiving than whitemetal components

[Gordon A]

High Level kits are IMO well thought out and designed.

I find it best to read the instructions carefully and be patient.

Also check you have the tools to do the job.

Tick off each stage as you go and make sure you understand what is being asked of you.

It is worth reading the instructions completely first, checking if there are any variations included in the kit, marking which variant applies to your model.

 

Gordon A

Edited February 27, 2017 by Gordon A

[Horsetan]

 

..... I'm going to build the thing using a set of track gauges. The instructions say that you can rely on the moulded pips to do the gauge alignment, which may be true but doesn't 'feel' right......

 

I think there is also an argument for leaving all your gauges and tools in place - if you can - until the solvent has properly set, before moving onto the next task.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I find it best to read the instructions carefully and be patient.

 

I've nearly finished the Finecast I3 that I started in early 2003. So I'm not one to rush when it comes to building loco kits. 

 

The point about reading the instructions is a good one. I noticed from the High Level gearboxes I've built that it's worth reading each step several times before doing it. 

 

I think there is also an argument for leaving all your gauges and tools in place - if you can - until the solvent has properly set, before moving onto the next task.

Yes, I worked that bit out the hard way.....

 

It begs the question of how quickly you can build these points when compared to soldered construction. I guess you could batch build several at the same time, but it would get awfully expensive in terms of the number of track gauges needed to hold the components in place whilst they set. 

[Horsetan]

..... question of how quickly you can build these points when compared to soldered construction. I guess you could batch build several at the same time, but it would get awfully expensive in terms of the number of track gauges needed to hold the components in place whilst they set. 

 

In a couple of cases, you might not need purpose-made gauges - things like spark plug "feelers" should do just as well if they are the identical thickness, e.g. S4 crossing flangeway comes out at 0.58mm, which is available as a spark plug feeler.

[hayfield]

 

100_0211.JPG

I also need some track to run these things on! C&L had a special offer on P4 point kits over the summer, so I bought one (an A5) to try out. This is the result of a couple of hours work during Thursday's NAG meeting.

100_0207.JPGIt's pretty straightforward, but a lot more time consuming than my previous attempts at building copperclad track.My only real issue was getting my head around the slightly too complicated system for numbering the components - the template uses one scheme, the sprues of parts another, and there's a little key printed at the bottom of the template to do the translation. I also deviated fromt he instructions in two ways - I've firmly stuck the bases down to the bit of MDF using double sided tape rather than blutak (I don't trust blutak not to move) and I'm going top build the thing using a set of track gauges. The instructions say that you can rely on the moulded pips to do the gauge alignment, which may be true but doesn't 'feel' right. 

 

 

Pete

 

Be carefull with P4 gauges on both C&L and Exactoscale chairs. The rail is set at a 20 degree cant so it is important that the rail head can rotate within the gauge. If the slot in the gauge is tight and or too deep the rail will be held upright, once the gauge is removed the rail will relax back into the cant and gauge narrow

 

As for the special chair numbering, charts cam be downloaded from the C&L site   http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=36  Within the knowledge centre

[Paul Cram]

Pete

 

Be carefull with P4 gauges on both C&L and Exactoscale chairs. The rail is set at a 20 degree cant so it is important that the rail head can rotate within the gauge. If the slot in the gauge is tight and or too deep the rail will be held upright, once the gauge is removed the rail will relax back into the cant and gauge narrow

 

As for the special chair numbering, charts cam be downloaded from the C&L site   http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=36  Within the knowledge centre

I think you will find that the rail inclination is 1 in 20 not 20 degrees.

[hayfield]

I think you will find that the rail inclination is 1 in 20 not 20 degrees.

Thanks for correcting me, knew there was a 20 in the answer

 

John

[pete_mcfarlane]

A bit of a progress update. I've managed a few odd evenings work on the Barclay, although progress has been interrupted by a few distractions like this....

It's an Airfix 1:72 Harrier GR.3. It's the first Airfix kit I've built for about 20 years, and they've changed a bit. Everything fits perfectly (presumably due to the use of CAD/CAM to design and make the moulds)and there are masses of transfers. The only downside is that Humbrol paint is now rubbish - luckily I was able to reuse some of my stash of old paint from my teenage plastic kit building days!

 

Anyway, I won''t bore everyone with a bow by blow report of the Barclay build, but I've got this far. 

So far, everything fits pretty well. The only real problem was some damage to the cab front due to the use of half etching making this really thin, combined with my fat fingers. So it was carefully straightened out and some reinforcing strips soldered to the rear where they won't show. 

 

I also struggled to align the second side sheet with the first, solved by soldering a bit of scrap etch temporarily to the rear of the footplate and using that to line things up. 

 

Having worried about rolling the boiler, that was a doddle. I bought some GW models rollers about 4/5 years back, and have used them intermittently. But they are incredibly useful when I do use them. 

 

So the task I was dreading took about 3 minutes and half a dozen passes through the rollers, using the screws to bring the rollers closer together with each pass. The trickiest bit was getting the top roller off to get the boiler out. Suddenly there are loads of etched loco kits within my ability range! At that point I lost the front boiler former, so ended up making a disk of nickle silver to replace it. 2 steps forward and one step back. 

 

And lastly, after seeing one of these at NAG the other week I've obtained a Poppy's loco builder box to help assemble the compensated chassis. I've not used it in anger yet, but it went together with no fuss at all. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[Mike 84C]

Hello Pete, I have followed several of your threads, I did like your L class from a Wills kit, so I am sure you  will have no problems with your High Level kit. I am also building my first etched kit and started with an SSM Cork Bandon & South Coast 4-6-0t when I opened the packages I thought" hmm ambitious" but ok so  far!  If you can get into the thought process of the kit designer that helps a lot and I struggled at first!

   Please keep posting.   Mick