First steps in P4- third loco complete

[pete_mcfarlane]

Progress since the last update:  

 

• Basic body is assembled, including replacement sprung Gibson buffers (with the bases filed to be oblong, as per the prototype).
• Chassis assembled. I'm going for option three of the four offering in the kit instructions. The rear two axles ride in a pair of rocking sub-frames, and the front axle uses hornblocks and a central pivot. This was all assembled in the Poppy's chassis jig. I used High-Level hornblocks, which went together quite easily. 

 

 

Again, no major problems so far. and it's all pretty much as per the instructions. The next task is the mask up the chassis and paint it, since I'm using Gibson wheels and won't be able to take them off for painting. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

A lot more progress since the last update, although I spent a few weeks not doing anything thanks to other commitments (mostly building a 1970s nightclub toilet for an AmDram production of 'Stags and hens', as you do...).

 

The body is mostly done, bar a few minor details like the sandbox operating rods, which I'll fit later once the chassis is complete. The chassis itself has been painted and the wheels and motor fitted. As I'm being awkward and fitting a flywheel, a small section had to be removed from the front of the boiler to allow it to fit. The motor moves under power and the various compensation bits have managed to avoid being gunged up with paint. 

 

I've had a couple of learnings along the way:

 

• There are a lot of small etched bits inside other etched bits which needed removing an saving for later. These ended up in a bag, which works for me on simpler kits, but a lot of time was spent on this one sifting through the bag and trying to identify them later on. I also managed to lose the safety valve lever (so will need to make another one).  Next time I'll tape them to a a bit of card and write the number next to them.
• As well as having issues with the flimsiness of the half etched cab, I ended up with a few dents in the half etched side tanks. The white stuff you can see is the filler. Once primed painted and smoothed down it should all be OK. Again this is a failing on my part and not one of the kit. 

So here at the photos. Next step is the coupling rods. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[jrg1]

I take a photograph of the etch as received and also use a marker pen to identify components.  Some suppliers have a drawing of the etch with parts numbered for reference enclosed-a big help.

I also keep every item relevant to a model in one box only-subdivided if necessary.

[Mike 84C]

I also used the Poppys jig on my Bandon 4-6-0 tank. The jig worked well for me as the chassis moved off under its own power first time! I was staggered, wonder if I can do it again!.  Agree with you on the parts, wish I had thought of the card idea but I ticked the instructions as each stage was completed. Is compensation worth it?  But the loco is looking good and thanks for posting your learning curve.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I also used the Poppys jig on my Bandon 4-6-0 tank. The jig worked well for me as the chassis moved off under its own power first time! I was staggered, wonder if I can do it again!.  Agree with you on the parts, wish I had thought of the card idea but I ticked the instructions as each stage was completed. Is compensation worth it?  But the loco is looking good and thanks for posting your learning curve.

Apart from a tight spot in one of the rods, the Barclay has also pretty much worked from the start. So I'm now sold on using the jig. 

 

Have you posted any details of the Brandon tank online? I'm assuming this is the SSM kit. 

[Mike 84C]

It is the SSM kit, I 'm very pleased with it. Just got to add balance weights and red buffer planks and a light weathering. Posed next to my nearly finished Bredin, one of three to finish. Sorry to hijack your thread Pete, there is also stuff on the IRM site under Micks Bandon Tank also Bantry town, our club layout.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Thanks, I'll take a look. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

Another quick update. The body is largely done, and the chassis is currently waiting for the cylinder assembly to be painted prior to final assembly. (that's the thing at the back, covered in masking tape). The loco is going to be black, with cream/off-white lining, as a fictitious industrial example. 

 

As before I had no major problems, although the cylinders did need some careful adjustment to get them running properly, although this may be down to my hamfisted assembly more than the kit itself. I did like they way they included a built in jig to ensure that everything was square, another piece of good design. 

 

I did deviate from the instructions in one area, as they suggested superglueing the rear part of the crosshead assembly. I didn't fancy this much (I tried and struggled to get a strong enough join) so in the end I carefully soldered them on (with much greasing of bits I didn't want soldered together). The removable brake gear with pickups attached is also being painted, but for some reason I neglected to take a photo of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

I now have a working loco. The pickups were a bit of a fiddle - they're attached to the brake gear, and after trying the method suggested by Tim Shackleton in his MRJ article on this kit (glue slivers of copperclad to the cross rods) I went for a more robust method. I've soldered some copperclad sleeper strip behind the pull rods, where it doesn't show, and then soldered the pickups to that. It's carefully gapped around the bits where it's soldered to the cross rods.

It's looking slightly tatty in that photo as it's not been fully painted, plus the brake gear had to come off and on a few times before all shorts were eliminated. I used to build locos before owning a multimeter - I've no idea how I managed to get them short free without it.

 

 

 

So after a bit of tweaking and adjustment of the motor torsion bars to limit the movement of the motor (the flywheel was grinding against a frame spacer) I now have a loco that glides smoothly up and down my test track as well as the ancient Hornby controller (birthday present in about 1984) I'm using to test things allows it. 

 

 

 

Apologies for the slightly weird look of this photo, as I have a new phone and haven't yet got the hang of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's now going off the be painted. 

 

 

 

 

I've also found time to finish this - another Bill Bedford wagon - this time a Midland 3 plank dropside. This was pretty straightforward - the only real issue was that the body had a slight twist to it, which was removed by heating it in warm water and them twisting back to shape. Fox transfers for the letters (the HMRS sheet for LMS pre-group wagons seems to be impossible to find) and a laser printed numberplate. 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

After what feels like an eternity, here's another update. Modelling progress has been slow - a few hours here and there every week, but I've got the Barclay painted, and nearly complete.  

 

It was sprayed with my newish Iwata Neo airbrush, which I'm slowly getting the hang of, over a coat of etch primer from a Halford spray can, lined with a cheap ruling pen, and varnished using a Tamiya matt varnish spray can (because I've yet to master airbrush varnishing). Paint was from Valejo. 

 

 

 

Worksplates, and nameplates (as the fictitious 'Peak Mines No. 1') were from narrow planet, and a suitable Edwardian Loco Crew came from Aidan Campbell. It's currently waiting for cab roof to be attached with PVA, and then final assembly.I'm rather pleased with it, although I've yet to fully tested the chassis out to make sure it can cope with prolonged running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'm not sure why it took another 6 months, but the Barclay is now finished. It's a little noisier than I'd like but ran pretty smoothly both on my own short length of track and the more complicated NAG test track. I suspect the noise is a down to how I've mounted the motor more than anything else - the gearbox has been stripped down and reassembled and shows no obvious problems. 

 

 

 

 

But anywhere, I now have a P4 loco that works - fully compensated, with outside cylinders and a boiler I rolled myself. I'm rather pleased. Next up will be another industrial - a Judith Edge Kitson long boiler. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[Dave Holt]

Well done, Pete. The finished loco looks very nice and I'm sure you're right to be pleased with it. Regarding the noise, most of my locos are fitted with Portescap motor/gearbox units and some of them sound like cement mixers! They sound horrible at home, but in a larger hall, with other stuff going on, you don't notice nearly as much.

Good luck with your next venture.

Dave.

[pete_mcfarlane]

And now for my next attempt at a P4 loco - the Judith Edge kit for a Kitson Long Boiler 0-6-0 pannier tank. This will be finished as another freelance industrial. 

 

 

Here's the result of a few evenings work, including a couple at NAG (Scalefour Society Nottingham Area Group). Sorry about the iffy photo, but my camera phone has changed it's behaviour and doesn't take as good close up photos as before (you've got to love these software updates in the background). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The basic footplat and cab assembled were first, and I'm now working on the chassis. It's been a doddle so far, as the kit is really good. For starters it's in nickle silver, which makes it a lot quicker to assemble compared to brass (as I can hold bits without my fingers melting, rather than having to work out how to hold bits of brass in place to solder them together). Everything pretty much fits with no work beyond removing the remains of the etched tabs. 

 

 

 

The only problem I've had was down to me soldering the cab too far forward, as there's no indication where the front sheet goes. Presumably a couple more trial runs and closer study of the diagram would have avoided this, so that's my fault rather than the kit.  It was a few minutes work to unsolder and move it to the correct place.  

 

 

 

I've followed the instructions pretty closely, although I'm soldering on more of the detail to the chassis before fitting  the wheels, as I like to paint the chassis before wheeling up. I'm planning to use the provided compensation - this caused some head scratching at NAG the other week as nobody had encountered anything like it before, but it looks viable and I trust Mike Edge's design. 

 

 

 

There are a few very nice features in the kit that are worth a mention - it comes with two chassis, one for P4 wheels with scale(ish) flanges, and one with slightly more generous spacing for OO/EM wheels. I was also impressed that the instructions list exactly which Gibson wheel, Mashima motor and High Level gearbox to use - aren't we supposed to guess these things and then struggle to get them to fit....? 

 

 

 

My one criticism is the inclusion at the back of the instructions of a couple of pages of drawings of all the other kits they do, so you I've ended up like an 8 year old with the Hornby catalogue (want that one, and that, and that, and that....). That's going to get expensive....

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[Daddyman]

Note that the kit seems to suggest that the tank tops curve up to meet the boiler: they don't. 

 

I bent the tanks themselves in a vice around a piece of wood of the correct dimensions to match the inside of the tanks: 

 

Result: 

 

I have loads of pictures of the preserved loco in close up. PM me if you want any more details of the things not supplied in the kit (injectors, washout plugs, sander operating gear, sandboxes, etc) - though I'm not sure if I'll have internet on holiday (from tomorrow for a week). 

[pete_mcfarlane]

That's a useful tip around forming the pannier tanks. That's the one job I'm not looking forward to. 

 

The model of Aerolite in your profile picture is rather nice. I've just discovered your thread on building it. 

[Daddyman]

Thanks for your comments Pete. 

 

You'll notice from the photo I'm using 4 pieces of wood: the one furthest from the camera simply to protect the outside face from the vice jaws; the next furthest is the really important one, as it is the one that I'm bending around (10mm, alllowing an ID when bent up of 10.3mm; line your piece of wood up using the bend guide lines etched into the tanks - maybe even tack superglue the wood in place); after that the two nearest the camera are just packing pieces so that when the top of the tank has been bent to shape, it doesn't foul the vice jaws. 

 

Best, 

David. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Daddyman

[pete_mcfarlane]

On 22/09/2018 at 07:04, Daddyman said:

I bent the tanks themselves in a vice around a piece of wood of the correct dimensions to match the inside of the tanks: 

20170709_094927.jpg

And that advice was incredibly helpful. I followed this and bent the tanks round a laminated block of wood, getting the dimension of the inside of the tanks from the etched tank end (which fits inside them). After much dithering, the actual process of bending was straightforward and only took a few minutes. 

So I now have the basic body completed. I did deviate from the instructions and soldered the reach rod in place before the tanks, to make it easier to solder in place. The rod needs to be (prototypically) bent to get around the springs. 

 

 

My only real problem with the body was bending the smokebox wrapper. this needed a small bit of filing to get it all to fit (or possibly I'd misinterpreted the instructions). Not that you can see much of it, under the tanks. I also modified the tank tops to match the photos of the preserved loco, which are completely flat with no curve in to the boiler. 

 

The chassis, with it's compensation arms, has been painted and the arms soldered in to place. they are mounted on pins, and held in place with small sections of 0.6mm I/D tubing from Eileen's Emporium. I struggled to cut 2mm slivers of this until I tired using a slotting file  (narrow file designed for making slots in small screw heads, and also useful for clearing etched slots in kits) to do the cutting. 

 

This shows the compensation being tested on my Poppy's chassis jig.

And this shows how the arms are held in place, with the tube. 

Next steps are to fit the wheels. This kit is taking a while to build due to lack of spare time, rather than any real issues with it. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

Not much progress of late, but I have found time to build this rather nice Prickley Pear SER open, that I impulse purchased at Scaleforum a couple of weeks back (err, actually September, but that's how 2019 seems to have gone). 

This was my second attempt at low melt soldering a wagon, and the first time I'd tried an open. The first attempt was a van, which is easy as you can put huge blobs of solder on the inside of the joints. This needed a bit more subtlety, but it went together incredibly well with little tweaking needed. The red oxide is from a Halford spray can, the transfers are Fox and the varnish was Ronseal via my airbrush.
 

(It's cunningly balanced on the 16.5mm gauge track of my Southern OO gauge layout, in case anyone spotted that the discrepancy between the wagon and building livery....)

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

The Judith Edge Kitson was stalled for a long time, but the extra free time we've now got has brought it to the top of the pile of unfinished projects. And progress has been pretty rapid - I'd struggled a bit with the motor torque reaction arm, but managed to create a new setup in an hour or so. It's a bit of scrap etc soldered vertically, with a wire arm extending off the gearbox. Crude, but it works

The 20 thou plasticard spacers are to pack the body up a little - it was sitting slightly too low, which caused problems with the wheels shorting on the splashers. That and filling the front of the boiler with lead (to stop the loco being rear heavy, and derailing on curves when running forward) seem to have fixed the running issues. 

Next steps are to add the pipework and various other bits of detailing. But I'm on the homeward straight now.

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

The Kitson is now complete - there was a lot of faffing around making the pipework on the tank and boiler tops out of tube, wire and etched handwheels, the loco is airbrushed black, lined with a bowpen (which I'm slowly getting the hang of) and finished with some Aidan Campbell figures, and a rather nice set of tools, lamps etc from modelu. 

 

If anyone is interested in more detail, then there's a my thread on the Scalefour forum where I've had a lot of help, including prototype photos. https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=4904&start=75

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[pete_mcfarlane]

I've now gone through this thread and restored the photos. 

 

And a bit of an update on my latest P4 industrial loco. I first saw a picture of the Wantage tramway's Hughes steam tram as a kid in the 1980's. My Grandfather had a stash of Model Railway Constructor annuals, one of which (1983) has an article on steam tramways including a photo of this contraption. It looked easy to make, being basically a box on wheels, so I tried to make one myself out of cornflake boxes....

Obviously that was a complete disaster, and was massively overscale as I'd sized it for my other OO stock, not realising that the real loco was tiny. It's the kind of steam tram loco that would tow a horse tram trailer or two round the streets, rather than pull lengthy freight trains round Cambridgeshire or Belgium

Anyway, about 30 years later I bought a set of etches from Worsley works for the Wantage loco, as I still quite fancied a model.

 

It will be a freelance example, rather than an exact model of the Wantage loco (or any similar Hughes locos - the Swansea and Mumbles had one as well). I do remember painting the original card model a royal blue colour, and I still have an ancient tin of Humbrol blue in my paint box which may even be the same one, so that takes care of what colour to paint it.

Anyway, the etches sat in the to do box for several years as I slowly accumulated bits for the model. I finally made a start over the Jubilee weekend, and it took a couple of hours to assemble the basic etches.

This is what you get - just the body:

The chassis would need to be scratchbuilt, so first of all I made a mockup out of plasticard to check clearances. I then cut the frames out of 10thous ns sheet.

I ended up building a home made jig to solder it all together, drilling a block of wood (in the drill press) to take a length of 2mm rod, and then using that to align the frames at the fixed axle end whilst soldering them together. This worked fairly well, at the second attempt (after the first go being slightly wonky, and being unsoldered for another go).

 

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

A couple of strips of nickle silver were drilled at the same time as the connecting rods, opened out to 2mm, and used as a jig to set the hornblocks. One of the strips has a 2mm axle bearing in it, because I opened the hole out too much (so opening it out even more to take a 2mm bearing solved that).

The (9mm diameter Sharman) wheels were put on the hard way, quartering by hand and pushing on with a vice. These are actually 1mm too small, but there isn't much choice when it comes to small P4 wheels. This limited the choice of gearbox to a  2 stage gearbox with a 8.2mm final drive gear. 

 

The pickups are attached to a length of PCB sleeper, which will be inside the loco body and not visible. There's also quite a bit of lead in the body to keep it on the track, and the wheels need to be kept scrupulously clean. Brake gear is from an Exactoscale wagon etch.

It waddles a bit, as you'd expect from something with a wheelbase shorter than the track gauge, but it navigated the EMAG test track with no real issues. 

 

After that, it was just a case of finishing the body with a chimney (I cheated and used tube, it should have a slight taper to it) and painting. Another cheat was to hide the interior (which is full of a mix of lead, gearbox and Mashima) by blacking out the windows and adding a tarpaulin to keep the wind out at each end.

Painted using an ancient tin of Humbrol French Blue (possibly the tin I painted my childhood cardboard version with), and fitted with a set of Narrow Plant numberplates. Number 3 because it's my third P4 industrial loco. Overall, I'm really pleased with this tiny thing. Firstly because I finally have a model of something I tried to build (badly) as a child, and secondly because (as I mentioned before) I've made a loco so tiny actually move under its own power (and in P4 to boot).

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by pete_mcfarlane

[Asterix2012]

18 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

A couple of strips of nickle silver were drilled at the same time as the connecting rods, opened out to 2mm, and used as a jig to set the hornblocks. One of the strips has a 2mm axle bearing in it, because I opened the hole out too much (so opening it out even more to take a 2mm bearing solved that).

The (9mm diameter Sharman) wheels were put on the hard way, quartering by hand and pushing on with a vice. These are actually 1mm too small, but there isn't much choice when it comes to small P4 wheels. This limited the choice of gearbox to a  2 stage gearbox with a 8.2mm final drive gear. 

 

The pickups are attached to a length of PCB sleeper, which will be inside the loco body and not visible. There's also quite a bit of lead in the body to keep it on the track, and the wheels need to be kept scrupulously clean. Brake gear is from an Exactoscale wagon etch.

It waddles a bit, as you'd expect from something with a wheelbase shorter than the track gauge, but it navigated the EMAG test track with no real issues. 

 

After that, it was just a case of finishing the body with a chimney (I cheated and used tube, it should have a slight taper to it) and painting. Another cheat was to hide the interior (which is full of a mix of lead, gearbox and Mashima) by blacking out the windows and adding a tarpaulin to keep the wind out at each end.

Painted using an ancient tin of Humbrol French Blue (possibly the tin I painted my childhood cardboard version with), and fitted with a set of Narrow Plant numberplates. Number 3 because it's my third P4 industrial loco. Overall, I'm really pleased with this tiny thing. Firstly because I finally have a model of something I tried to build (badly) as a child, and secondly because (as I mentioned before) I've made a loco so tiny actually move under its own power (and in P4 to boot).

 

Lovely job

 

All you need is one of the trailers Worsley works do for it to pull

[pete_mcfarlane]

2 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

Lovely job

 

All you need is one of the trailers Worsley works do for it to pull

I did ponder getting some at one point, but this one is intended to be a tram loco sold into industrial service (as occasionally happened).