Kernow MRC announce 4-TC

[Kaput]

Silly question but if I wanted to sound fit a 4TC, what sound project to get?

Theres an article in a previous Hornby Mag about sound fitting a Class 33/1 + 4TC combo and it makes it seem like they used legomanbiffo's Class 33 sound for both but there doesn't seem to be an option to order his Class 33 project on a 21pin decoder.

[SRman]

There is a specific sound project for the TC units - I think it was legomanbiffo's project. The units have provision for a sugar cube speaker to be mounted in the TBS vehicle.

Sound projects can be loaded onto any pin configuration of the relevant manufacturer's decoders (ESU and Zimo being the main ones, with different sound suppliers offering class 33 sounds).

I have class 33s fitted with sounds from Howes (ESU v3.5), legomanbiffo (ESU v3.5 and v4), and Zimo (Paul Chetter/Digitrains). In all cases they are fitted in Heljan class 33s so are all 8-pin versions, but there is no reason why you cannot get a 21-pin version if you want one; any of the major suppliers could do it for you ... but what locomotive would you fit that in?

Edited September 16, 2018 by SRman

[Covkid]

Silly question but if I wanted to sound fit a 4TC, what sound project to get?

Theres an article in a previous Hornby Mag about sound fitting a Class 33/1 + 4TC combo and it makes it seem like they used legomanbiffo's Class 33 sound for both but there doesn't seem to be an option to order his Class 33 project on a 21pin decoder.

 

I think it rather depends how many specific TC sounds you need or want. There seem to be a number of door slamming guards whistle type generic sounds on decoders these days, but you would probably be wanting specifics.  I guess the TCs had the ding ding in the cabs, but maybe not the compressors to maintain Main Res ?  

[roythebus]

As far as I know TCs weren't fitted with compressors or MGs for lighting. That was provided either by the loco or the REP unit. But as I never learnt them as a driver I may be wrong.

 

Had they been fitted with MGs the lights wouldn't work when they were included on Saturday workings when hauled by VEP/CEP combinations.

[brushman47544]

The sounds don't have to be Class 33s. The 50s also hauled TCs in NSE days as well.

[Tim Hall]

The sounds don't have to be Class 33s. The 50s also hauled TCs in NSE days as well.

 

73/1s and possibly 74s? Also shunting with high level air braked 07, 08, 09? If 50s pulled them, at least one will have failed and been replaced with a 47 at some point, surely?

[Gwiwer]

73/1s and possibly 74s? Also shunting with high level air braked 07, 08, 09? If 50s pulled them, at least one will have failed and been replaced with a 47 at some point, surely?

 

4TC units could be operated as 4-carriage loco-hauled sets of Mk.1 stock for most purposes but not all locos were able to provide light / heat.  In many cases an adapter jumper would be required though these should be carried aboard every main line locomotive anyway.  Unless fitted with SR 27-way push-pull control locomotives could only haul these units in service, not propel them, which required some running-round at times which was not necessarily allowed for in timetables.

 

They worked with class 33/1 as is well known.  They were hauled by classes 33/0 and 33/2 and could be propelled by these when working in multiple with a 33/1 which was actually coupled to the unit.  They were hauled by classes 47/7 and 50 on Waterloo - Salisbury duties some of which probably strayed as far west as Gillingham and they were shunted (but not operated in traffic) by classes 08 and 09, probably 10 as well.  They could indeed have been worked by an 07 but whether it ever happened is beyond my knowledge.

 

They were also worked push-pull by classes 73/1 and 74 but less commonly and only on diesel power if unavoidable.  I have no record of a 73/0 working with a 4TC but it may have happened and they were compatible in the way that a 33/0 was.  In theory they could have been hauled by a 71 and I believe this did occur on a Southern Electric Group railtour "The Man of Kent" back in around 1973.

 

Whether they ever worked with any other class I am sure others can say.  They could, of course, have been hauled by almost anything though a red tail lamp would have been required in such cases because (1) the loco would not be guaranteed to power the twin rear red headcode blinds and (2) unless travelling over SR routes where signallers and staff were trained to accept the double-reds as the end-of-train marker a red tail lamp was required for such purposes anyway.  That included their rostered work on Portsmouth - Cardiff and Bristol - Weymouth services.

[Tim Hall]

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/861018n2.htm

 

Dredged that from the darker recesses of my slightly warped mind....looks to have run on three dates around then....

Edited September 20, 2018 by Tim Hall

[Gwiwer]

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/861018n2.htm

 

Dredged that from the darker recesses of my slightly warped mind....looks to have run on three dates around then....

 

Now that's a memory worth treasuring!  And surely one of the shortest railtours ever.

 

 

 

They were hauled by classes 33/0 and 33/2 and could be propelled by these when working in multiple with a 33/1 which was actually coupled to the unit.

Just to amplify this there was a summer Saturday duty which should have been 2x33/1 plus 2x4TC working the 08.?? (08.37?) Waterloo - Exeter St. Davids and return which was effectively a relief train.  It was first stop Basingstoke then Andover, Salisbury and only a handful of stops to Exeter so was also quite popular with enthusiasts.  When correctly formed the locos hauled the units west and pushed them back east.

 

On one occasion it was formed 33/1, 33/0 and 2x4TC.  That of course worked perfectly well in the down direction with the 33/0 basically hauling an 8-car train.  It reached Exeter where on a summer Saturday platform occupation was at a premium and of course the WR authorities were foxed.  Why would it not work when the driver got into the 4TC cab?  For what ever reason, probably related to track occupancy, instead of simply running round and coupling the 33/1 to the front of the unit they took one loco at a time off and recoupled them the other way around at the rear!

[33212]

Afternoon, having a few frustrations with the 4TC - fitted three different brand new Bachmann 21 pin chips to try and program, all get Error02 - this is on a Lenz set 100. Reading back through the thread, is this because the system is not detecting a motor, and should plonk a loco on the prog track, program that so both get done then change the loco back - does this work??

 

My next step was to put the whole 4 car together on an extended prog track but got too late last night to Pfaff about with it..

 

 

many thanks

 

Matt

[johnb]

Highlly likely 33212, chips usually need a motor in circuit to allow programming. I doubt that even with the whole set on the prog track it would provide enough load to allow programming. The perceived wisdom with an unpowered but chipped item is to use a loco in circuit and of course that then gets the new address, then the loco needs changing back.

 

John

[johnb]

Thanks rich,

Everything is scaling out at just over 4’ Which was what I was hoping the cassettes would be, other wise I have a scenic the same length as the fiddle....

 

Now I’m quite willing to run “ half trains” poking out from a bridge but at £70 each it seems a shame to hide them

 

My current layout was designed around 4-car CEPs and EPBs, I even extended an existing sector plate fiddle yard to allow this. The station platform lengths and adjacent pointwork just cope with CEPs and EPBs. Then up comes the 4TC which needs a loco! (Grrrr!). I sometimes borrow a friends TC set and loco for shows and we have to run a loco and 3TC! The rationale is that the 1st class car is defective so we miss that out. It's usually well received anyway particularly when the loco is pushing.

 

I could cut a hole in the end of the layout to cope with the extra but modifying the sector plate with an extension on the end of an extension would be problematic.

 

John

 

P.S. The same issue occurs with another friends the Brighton Belle a 5BEL becomes a 4BEL!! That's a rare event tho'.

[Rich Papper]

Afternoon, having a few frustrations with the 4TC - fitted three different brand new Bachmann 21 pin chips to try and program, all get Error02 - this is on a Lenz set 100. Reading back through the thread, is this because the system is not detecting a motor, and should plonk a loco on the prog track, program that so both get done then change the loco back - does this work??

 

My next step was to put the whole 4 car together on an extended prog track but got too late last night to Pfaff about with it..

 

 

many thanks

 

Matt

 

Hello

I had the same issue. In the end I put the chip I wanted to use in a 21pin loco, programmed it, then took it out and put it in the TC. Not had a problem since. PITA though.

Rich

[33212]

thanks all, will try later

[Dan Bennett]

As far as I know TCs weren't fitted with compressors or MGs for lighting. That was provided either by the loco or the REP unit. But as I never learnt them as a driver I may be wrong.

 

Had they been fitted with MGs the lights wouldn't work when they were included on Saturday workings when hauled by VEP/CEP combinations.

 

TCs were all fitted with a single compressor and MG under the brake coach

Edited October 27, 2018 by Dan Bennett

[luke_stevens]

Hi,

 

Now that my Heljan 33/1 has arrived I’m trying to chip my 4TC. But I’m having a problem which I don’t think has been mentioned before.

 

I cannot get the interior lights to work. They don’t work on DC and they don’t work with a ZimoMX634D which is a 6 function decoder. I’ve tried toggling the switch on the underside back and forth and it makes no difference. The headcode light (white / red) work fine: f0 has them directional, f1 turns off the leading end, f2 turns off the trailing end. F5 doesn’t make anything happen, and neither does f3, f4 or f6.

 

Thoughts / suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

Luke

[SRman]

I used Lenz Silver 21+ decoders in both of my KMRC 4 TC units and the interior lights worked on F5 - I modified that to get them to work on F3 as well. It was a while ago that I fitted them, and I seem to recall I tried a Zimo decoder with no luck on working those lights.

[Kaput]

 

Hi,

 

Now that my Heljan 33/1 has arrived I’m trying to chip my 4TC. But I’m having a problem which I don’t think has been mentioned before.

 

I cannot get the interior lights to work. They don’t work on DC and they don’t work with a ZimoMX634D which is a 6 function decoder. I’ve tried toggling the switch on the underside back and forth and it makes no difference. The headcode light (white / red) work fine: f0 has them directional, f1 turns off the leading end, f2 turns off the trailing end. F5 doesn’t make anything happen, and neither does f3, f4 or f6.

 

Thoughts / suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

Luke

 

 

Try setting CV8 to 3, The 2 extra functions on a 634D are full power instead of logic level and IIRC the 4-TC wants a logic level function for the interior lights. Zimo manual claims changing CV8 to 3 will change the 634D into a C which has the logic level functions

[RFS]

Try setting CV8 to 3, The 2 extra functions on a 634D are full power instead of logic level and IIRC the 4-TC wants a logic level function for the interior lights. Zimo manual claims changing CV8 to 3 will change the 634D into a C which has the logic level functions

 

I'd be interested to know if this works, because when I tried it on my MX634Ds it didn't.  

 

However when I got my 4TC, I first checked it on DC and the interior lights worked fine. And I too now use a Lenz 21-pin for this model. 

[Kaput]

To be honest from reading the Zimo manual it might actually be the MX638 that can change between the C and D variants and not the 634.

 

 

For what its worth my 4TC has a cheap and cheerful LaisDCC decoder in it and everything works fine.

[mevaman]

I know that this doesn’t really help but I have fitted mine with a Dapol Imperium and all works fine.

 

You could try asking the guys/girls at Kernow.

[luke_stevens]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I'll experiment tomorrow and see what I can get working. I have the Zimo decoder, an Impierum and a Hatton's 6f one so I'll see what behaves.

Luke

[Butler Henderson]

The 4-TC's and REP's converted at York BREL - so there must be some ECML delivery photo's somewhere ............. and an further excuse of those with ER layouts to get one without stretching rule 1 .....................

Just to pick up on this as ploughing through a number of Modern Railway magazine of the time I spotted this comment in the May 1967 issue;

 

"Incidentally, SR push-pull fitted Type 3 diesels with an attached 4TC set have re-cently been making occasional journeys to York to pick up further new 4REP sets and return push-pull."

 

So a northbound 33/1+4-TC set would be perfectly authentic.

[luke_stevens]

Well the lights work now. Not quite sure why... but thta all of you for your help.

 

I sat down this evening with the Zimo, a Hattons 21pin, a DCC Concepts and a Dapol Imperium.

 

The interior lights work on f3 with the Imperium. They don't work on any of the others, which suggest it's a logic thing, but at this stage I don't really mind

 

I had the Imperium floating around as without a full description of what cv do what I wasn't eager to put it in something and not understand why it did what it did!

 

Happy now!

 

Luke

 

PS pity the warning panel yellow on the 33/1 isn't the same as that on the 4TC...

[Kaput]

Try https://www.Dapol.co.uk/pdfs/imperium%20cvlist_1-0D.pdf for the CV information for the Imperium. There is a belief that the Imperium's are rebranded LaisDCC so the documentation for them should apply.