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Cooper craft - Cautionary notes for customers - Its fate and thoughts on an alternative


Edwardian
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I wanted to know what the current position was; I found an existing topic on this business, but it had been locked sometime ago. Over the last 12 months I have noticed many derisive comments on RMWeb, suggesting that the business is now pretty much regarded as a joke.

 

So, I thought I would give Mr Coopercraft the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance to respond to a query. Unfortunately, my attempts to contact this business have been completely ignored, so I thought it worth a post to say that, so far as I can tell, the business is moribund.

 

It is frustrating, to say the least, to return to the hobby to find that so many of the important kit ranges have been collected together by a single business that either cannot or will not make the products available.

 

These ranges are privately owned, but in another sense they are the legacy of the hobby as a whole. Mr Coopercraft has evidently failed in whatever he set out to achieve and, for the sake of the modelling community, he should sell on to someone who is willing to make these products available.

 

We have lost too many good ranges through, death, illness, retirement or what have you. Mr Coopercraft's failure has accelerated these losses to a substantial extent.

Edited by Andy Y
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In looking for stuff, I'd come across the Coopercraft website but I'd recalled seeing threads on here about them. Therefore I checked and did not place an order. However, there was a flurry of activity on the thread that suggested they were still trading. Hurrah I thought and hurried to place an order. I thought wise, though, not to place too large an order... (And at that point I didn't know AndyY would be interrogating my spending)! That was in late January/early February. Radio silence. nada. I thought I'd better chase but never got around to it. I then saw they were due at Railex. Aha, I thought. I can check them out and ask the stall holder where my goods are. However, as I approached the stall I changed my mind. Rarely have I seen such a feeble and sad stall at a show. No branding, no jazzy display, just a few forlone looking items attached to some vertical boards. I brought a small item and moved on ready to chalk up my previous order to experience.

 

However, the good fairy must have seen me. Barely days after railex, I refreshed my email and nearly fell off my chair. I had an email from Coopercraft saying my order had been processed. Once the shock had subsided, I thought I will believe it when I see it. Low and behold a few days later, my order arrived.

 

So, still in business. Clearly struggling. I agree it would be good if someone It's a pity someone could buy them out but I guess that depends on whether the owner is actually willing to face reality and sell

 

David

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At ExpoEM shows I've always found him friendly and helpful. He has mentioned that he's trying to reorganise his stock to be able to know what is what better and a lot of former kits haven't been made available as whilst he knows what the etches are, the cast items are a collection of confusion to him (this in relation to the SR EMUs mainly).

 

So it isn't all bad news.

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Im mostly upset that the Slaters 4mm range is owned by him, and has been discontinued for a few years at this point. Id still like to pick up a few Midland wagons if I could. Shame really.

 

Does anyone have the skills to make an even better successor to the Slaters range? Preferably one with internal details?

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Im mostly upset that the Slaters 4mm range is owned by him, and has been discontinued for a few years at this point. Id still like to pick up a few Midland wagons if I could. Shame really.

 

Does anyone have the skills to make an even better successor to the Slaters range? Preferably one with internal details?

 

He;s taken on so many ranges is perhaps the trouble. So much variety of items and so much to sort through, it might be that the slaters 4mm stuff isn't in a state he can sell atm, or is in a queue behind other items he's trying to reintroduce. He has stated he spends some of his time working on 12" to the foot stuff, so that might impact a bit i guess.

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+

 

I am having a clear out of unmade Cooper Craft kits soon on eBay.

Have several Ratio kits of GWR Open C's that would make a nice rake.

 

Years of collecting, and then moving on to other things.

 

Noel

Edited by Dazzler Fan
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So, possibly still in business.  But it seems to me that the business has allowed its credibility to be destroyed.  Completely failing to acknowledge a potential customer's attempts to communicate doesn't help with that and I suspect few will be brave like Clearwater and place an order.

 

Frankly these ranges deserve more than a guy who turns up to the odd show with a few boxes.  There is an e-commerce site that holds out the entire range as being available, and that is misleading to say the least.

 

For whatever reason, the owner cannot deliver and the suspicion is that he has bitten off much more than he can chew.  He does need to recognise the reality of this and sell.

 

Bottom line is I would like Coopercraft and 4mm Slaters wagons and Slaters coaches and I cannot get them.    

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It suggests on the web site that you place an order, but don't pay until he lets you know it's in stock. Has anyone tried this? At least you won't be parting with any money, assuming the system lets you order without paying.

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I've never used the website for purchasing, and only ever bought what I could see at shows.

 

The remarkable thing is that virtually all of the parts that go into the BR Mk.1 coach kits are still available, except for the roof section which you have to obtain either from MJT / Dart Castings or Comet/Wizard.

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Just thought I'd try to place an order but payment is part of the process.  I pressed cancel at the payment screen so my order was not completed.  My basket has been saved against my account but I wouldn't necessarily expect a business to check that.

 

If Paul does get in touch I'll place an order.  If not then I'm not out of pocket.

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It suggests on the web site that you place an order, but don't pay until he lets you know it's in stock. Has anyone tried this? At least you won't be parting with any money, assuming the system lets you order without paying.

I expect you can't resist all those LNER coach kits?  :tomato:

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I'd have to check my credit card statement but I think I was charged at order and not delivery. Fearing that was why I placed a small order so if the money was lost, although if be annoyed and out of pocket it wouldn't be the end of the world

 

David

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There was an indication in another forum that some modellers were trying to help him improve the supply situation, but there's also a view that the ranges aren't up to modern standards and better alternatives are available elsewhere. I too would quite like to get my hands on some Slaters MR kits (wagons and coaches) to supplement those I have, but I do wonder whether Slaters sold them off because the moulds were becoming life-expired. The Coopercraft stuff I never really rated anyway - except for the lorries, which were good at the time but have been overtaken now with more interest in road transport kits.

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Im mostly upset that the Slaters 4mm range is owned by him, and has been discontinued for a few years at this point. Id still like to pick up a few Midland wagons if I could. Shame really.

 

 

 

Slater's wagon are available from Powsides, though only decorated ones.

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The stand sadly has got smaller every year for the past few years at Railex. Its a great pity that these items are not available/in short supply when if these pages are to be trusted there is a demand for some if not all of the lines. Perhaps if he had some form of pre-order system so any funds that are available could be put to maximum use, but then there needs to be both communication between the business and customers and trust rebuilt

 

Lets hope something can be done to save the ranges and reintroduce them.

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What LNER coach kits? Unless there any GER 4 wheelers as sold to the Rother Valley Railway in 7mm scale, there's no point me looking!

 

John, I assume these are the Ian Kirk LNER kits (4mm).

 

I would imagine there loss must be felt quite keenly by LNER modellers, of whom I used to be envious in that regard.

 

My particular interest like you is in Coopercraft GW wagons. I wish I had a couple of those old 4-planks with the cast plates!

 

The Slaters coach range and, particularly, their spares, was quite a valuable resource.    

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IIUC, CooperCraft are able to produce etched products from the existing masks, might be able to produce whitemetal castings from existing moulds (if the owner can work out which mould does what, and if the moulds are not worn out) and cannot produce any injection moulded parts because the single, specially-adapted moulding machine is broken. Production of etched and cast parts is presumably contracted out, so would depend on the business having enough capital to place an order.

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... I too would quite like to get my hands on some Slaters MR kits (wagons and coaches) to supplement those I have, but I do wonder whether Slaters sold them off because the moulds were becoming life-expired. ...

 

Is that likely with injection-moulding tools? I thought they were good for millions of shots, and I doubt railway kits ever got into the hundreds of thousands.

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It is a shame when things like this happen, but not unexpected. Manufacturing kits, even ones that have been in production for a long time, takes a lot of work, and money. Maintaining machinery(faulty machines being the excuse given on website) is just one of those problems, and maybe a bigger company should be involved(I won't say more!). One reason, I have gone down the online 3D printing route is to reduce these type of problems, but there is still a place for decent injection molded kits.

These type of problems are not new, but I suspect there will be more when those involved take on too much, but maybe those in the hobby should help. It might be someone else , but it is our hobby, and we need people to be willing to produce kits for us.

 

Don't just grumble, don't expect others to feed us,maybe offer to help. The answer might be to form a group(properly setup cooperative maybe) and offer a business proposal.

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These type of problems are not new, but I suspect there will be more when those involved take on too much, but maybe those in the hobby should help. It might be someone else , but it is our hobby, and we need people to be willing to produce kits for us.

 

Don't just grumble, don't expect others to feed us,maybe offer to help. The answer might be to form a group(properly setup cooperative maybe) and offer a business proposal.

I think that's an excellent idea. To use the Dragon's Den term, these are 'lifestyle'businesses which I suspect don't produce enough revenue and profit to support a small number of employees and capital. Therefore, the valuations are not beyond a group of people to club together. I'd suggest rather than looking to pay dividends, investors get a discount on purchases. However, the complexity of setting up the shareholder arrangements and governance shouldn't be underestimated.

 

An alternative model, pardon the pun, would be for a shop to purchase such ranges of kits and market them alongside their other stock.

 

David

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Its the lack of Kirk kits that get my goat.  Once a great 4mm range, now nothing.  I understand the injection moulding machine is goosed but these can be repaired/replaced (at a cost)

 

Maybe we do need another business with access to the right machines and experience to take over and reintroduce (Parkside Dundas anyone?!!!)

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