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Cooper craft - Cautionary notes for customers - Its fate and thoughts on an alternative


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All this is unfortunate, I am in the US with a box full of

Cooper Craft kits I brought out here with me over 20 years

ago. I am clearing down my collection.

 

I would put them on eBay.co.uk, but I think the Royal Mail

and HMC&E would kill the situation for UK Collectors.

 

Noel

 

Are you a member of BRMNA Noel?  http://www.brmna.org/index.html The organisation has quite a useful website with a second hand sales section that is free to members.  I sold a load of my 4mm stock when I switched to 0 gauge.

 

John

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If you are modelling Midland or LMS then these kits are almost essential. I don't think we are quite there yet with 3D printing are we ?

 

You've built a lot to be able to make this comment?

 

I thought 3D printing would have progressed to the stage where you could just scan an existing model and then print it out. Apparently we are nowhere near that with the scanning side of things.

 

So you would want to reproduce all the facts of the original?

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I don't think we are quite there yet with 3D printing are we ?

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bill, but I believe this is a casting from a 3D printed master? I'm very happy with the quality of it and the others I've had from you.

 

BB_GN_10T_coal_zpsmfoftbcl.jpg

 

WRT scanning prototypes, even my minimal knowledge and understanding of the process suggests that reducing all the dimensions (especially thicknesses) by a factor of 76 is completely impractical. There have to be concessions to the need for structural integrity and the properties of the materials used.

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Having seen Bills latest prints at Railwells, I believe we are now there with the quality & lack of visible layering. It's then down to cost/quantity as to whether to print them as required, or produce a casting from the prints.

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If you are modelling Midland or LMS then these kits are almost essential. I don't think we are quite there yet with 3D printing are we ? Injection moulds are still the way to go ; white metal kits have their problems and can be tricky to put together. I have built a few white metal kits and I am in no rush to repeat the experience ! I have not built a resin kit so I cannot comment.

 

I thought 3D printing would have progressed to the stage where you could just scan an existing model and then print it out. Apparently we are nowhere near that with the scanning side of things.

 

 

We're not quite there, for wagon bodies, with commercial, 3D printing. Pick any two of affordable, finely detailed and finely finished in the flat areas: AFAIK you can't get all three. Bill solved this by buying his own printer and applying his own standards for quality control. I'm attacking the problem by sweeping the Shapeways' parameter-space until I get them to print wagon structures consistently in FUD (which they can do perfectly well in 1:152 but seem to mess up in 1:76). If this issue be solved, then an open wagon body + underframe + fittings - i.e. a kit needing axleguards and buffer heads to complete - will be around £15 + designer's profit + p&p at current exchange.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, Bill, but I believe this is a casting from a 3D printed master? I'm very happy with the quality of it and the others I've had from you.

 

 

 

This is a 3D printed body with resin small parts. The pale stuff is resin, the dark stuff is 3D prints.

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I thought 3D printing would have progressed to the stage where you could just scan an existing model and then print it out. Apparently we are nowhere near that with the scanning side of things.

 

It's not just the quality issue, there's that pesky copyright thing as well. Why produce a kit if someone else is just going to scan and rip it off?

 

Producing a viable kit is far harder than just scanning and printing. As one manufacturer has found, there is all sorts of stuff in scans that needs to be cleaned up before production. It's why Rapido don't print from the scan but from CADs which use the scan as a guide.

 

You also need a full understanding of all the processes so you can make something people can build. There's a good chance different materials will be required for different parts too. Thin metal bits benefit from being made of metal. Plastic is OK but 3D print materials generally are either strong or thin but not both. That skill is why kits cost money - you are paying for the skill of the designer.

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I have been trying to get some of the ex Blacksmith Siphon detailing kits. Have they appeared at the shows at all?

 

I git a couple of sets last year by asking at ExpoEm (none on stand, but promised to pack for RailEX) and collecting at RailEX.

 

So they are available

 

Jon

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So...  If someone wanted to commission a new injection-moulded wagon kit, who could he turn to?  Coopercraft is dead, taking Slaters with him.  Parkside is with Peco, who have their hands full.  Cambrian is intending to sell up and semi-retire in a few weeks.  Who else is there?

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Hi Charlie

 

It isn't the Southern ones that are the problem. From my understanding the moulds for them and the LNER coaches went separate directions after leaving Ian's business. At the present time the Southern ones are not in production or being advertised as available (except your box). Unlike the LNER coaches that are being openly advertised, when they are not in production or available. Worse is money is being  taken for them without the goods being sent.

The kits available are:

 

Mailcoach Twin Pack LNER Coronation Set (First/First)

 

Mailcoach Twin Pack LNER Coronation Set Third/Brake 3rd

 

Mailcoach LNER 62’6” Deal Gangway Full Brake

 

Mailcoach LNER 62’6” Tourist Buffet Third

 

Kirk SR Maunsell All Third ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell Composite ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell All Third ‘High Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell 59ft 4 Compartment Brake 3rd ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell All Third ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell 57ft Brake Composite ‘Low Window’

 

Contact charlie@dckts.co.uk

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So...  If someone wanted to commission a new injection-moulded wagon kit, who could he turn to?  Coopercraft is dead, taking Slaters with him.  Parkside is with Peco, who have their hands full.  Cambrian is intending to sell up and semi-retire in a few weeks.  Who else is there?

 

 

Slaters. They are still in the injection moulding business, even though they seem to have no interest in selling 4mm scale stuff. There are also many companies that will produce moulds for you. HOWEVER all the companies mentioned above, with the possible exception of Slaters, used out-of-date methods of producing the moulds, even when the moulds were made. The result is that going to company set-up for modern mould production is never going to be cheap. In addition mould makers in general know nothing about railway models so you would have to design the kit and trust you had the moulding side correct enough to ensure that the project was viable.

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The kits available are:

 

Mailcoach Twin Pack LNER Coronation Set (First/First)

 

Mailcoach Twin Pack LNER Coronation Set Third/Brake 3rd

 

Mailcoach LNER 62’6” Deal Gangway Full Brake

 

Mailcoach LNER 62’6” Tourist Buffet Third

 

Kirk SR Maunsell All Third ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell Composite ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell All Third ‘High Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell 59ft 4 Compartment Brake 3rd ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell All Third ‘Low Window’

 

Kirk SR Maunsell 57ft Brake Composite ‘Low Window’

 

Contact charlie@dckts.co.uk

 

 

Sorry, but can you amplify this please?  Who is/are "dckts.co.uk" (doesn't seem to have a website), and are you suggesting you/they have stocks of these items available as 'complete kits', not just the sides which seems to be all that's available from (actual) CooperCraft these days?  What is the connection with Coopercraft, if any?  I'd be interested in principle, and I'm sure others would too, but after all the horror stories I'm a bit wary, as I hope you can appreciate.

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Sorry, but can you amplify this please?  Who is/are "dckts.co.uk" (doesn't seem to have a website), and are you suggesting you/they have stocks of these items available as 'complete kits', not just the sides which seems to be all that's available from (actual) CooperCraft these days?  What is the connection with Coopercraft, if any?  I'd be interested in principle, and I'm sure others would too, but after all the horror stories I'm a bit wary, as I hope you can appreciate.

 

For dckts.co.uk read dckits.co.uk - just a typo.

 

.... and yes - an enquiry to Charlie Petty of that parish indicates that the full kits as listed are indeed available to purchase.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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For dckts.co.uk read dckits.co.uk - just a typo.

 

.... and yes - an enquiry to Charlie Petty of that parish indicates that the full kits as listed are indeed available to purchase.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Thanks - I may well just do that, then!

 

WW

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For dckts.co.uk read dckits.co.uk - just a typo.

In the i (Independent newspaper), there was an item about Tooting being one of the top ten places in the World that's a really cool place to visit says 'Lonely Planet' - great curries there too, apparently - and it has the largest ido in the UK,

Eureka ... I thought here's a good question for my Quiz, "what's an ido"?

.

Thought I ought to look it up anyway.....

Apparently Tooting has the largest freshwater Lido in the UK ... Doh  :O 

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In the i (Independent newspaper), there was an item about Tooting being one of the top ten places in the World that's a really cool place to visit says 'Lonely Planet' 

 

Having lived there for two years, I have no desire to go back (although it did have a very good 2nd hand record shop just by Tooting Broadway tube station)

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Very nice Lido too! Mrs Kubes & I used to go swimming there some cough cough years ago when we were younger and fitter.

And I grew up a 5 minute walk from Tooting Lido in Streatham till 10 years ago where the road I lived on led onto the outskirts of Tooting Bec common. Never been swimming in there, my school took me to the swimming baths next to the old bus garage, AK depot code.

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Phoenix have now reissued the Ian Kirk Southern Railway kits and I believe they are good quality as well. They're of a similar age as the LNER coach kits.

 

 

Phoenix don't appear to be selling anything at the moment: http://www.srg.org.uk/phoenix/

 

"The SRG is in the process of reviewing the stock and tooling for the kits over the winter of 2015/6, prior to a re-launch of the range in 2016."

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Phoenix don't appear to be selling anything at the moment: http://www.srg.org.uk/phoenix/

 

"The SRG is in the process of reviewing the stock and tooling for the kits over the winter of 2015/6, prior to a re-launch of the range in 2016."

 Wrong Phoenix - though I thought the point of the mythical bird was that it was unique. Try https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/exkirk!

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