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Mapping a Decoder


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Can someone point me to a site that can perhaps hep me. I am having trouble understanding why I need to map my decoder for my APT-E. On DC it works fine but DCC is a different story. I get head & tail lights on PC1 going one way and no lights on PC2. Reverse direction and the lights are fine. I have never come across this and it is most frustrating. 

 

Regards 
Scott 

 

 

 

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I don't own or have any knowledge of the internal workings of this model but maybe you could drop the manufacturer an e-mail for advice.

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How many decoders are present in the model ?   (Being a multiple unit, it could be one, two, three, or even more).

 

What is the decoder(s) maker / model ?   The decoder maker can be found by reading the value of CV8.   From that, advice on how to interpret CV7 and possibly other CV's will narrow down the decoder model.

 

 

 

-  Nigel

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The 'usual reported problem' in the APT-E thread under Rapido on RMWeb is that of failing to make the interconnections correctly between the coaches:

 

The multiway connector is 'stiff' (to make good contact) and slides sideways in a frame (to allow cornering etc) and requires a praticed insertion technique starting with holding the adjacent coaches at 10degrees from vertical - and then connecting.

It is worth checking that the alignment /holding screws are allowing the connector to move, and that it is then correctly aligned when trying to connect.

'slim fingers' - or stout tweezers - may be needed to complete the closure of the connection - rather than risk breaking the plastic frame etc.- pushing on the rear of BOTH connectors to bing them fully together!

 

The confusion comes from there beng only 1 decoder - in PC1, but the lighting is independantly picked up in each coach -  so ANY poor connection starting from PC1 will probably show as a problems such as no directional lights or motor dirve when it reaches (or doesn't) PC2 -

 

If a 'problem' is found - 'eliminate it' by starting with PC1 and PC2 plugged together, then wth 1 coach, then 2 ,, and so on, depending on how many were bought.

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Hi 

 

Thanks for the advice, I did try the two powers cars only and also on DC and they work fine, add the decoder and then I have issues. 

 

 

I am not sure what mapping means  though is it assigning a function to something that was added after market ie a flickering smokebox or a smoke generator? I don't see when I need to map the lighting though as this surely should be standard DCC? 

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So this was NOT a factory-installed decoder??? - I had assumed your 'ok on DC' menat a decoder-fitted DCC model when run on DC !

Did you buy the recommended sound decoder, or simply a silent decoder ?

 

'Function Mapping' - not avialble on 'earlier designs' of decoders, or implemented differently by competing manufacturers when it started to appear,

refers to the assignment, or mapping, of an effect or physical output, to a particular button on your controllers.

 

For example, by default, directional lighting is PHYSICALLY on outputs 1 and 2 (white and yellow wires) of a std 00/H0 decoder  (large scale decoders may have different colour mapping too)

They are normally operated by  Function button 'F0'.

 

By default the next 2 outputs (green wire, and violet wire if fitted) may start on buttons F1 and F2 respectively.     However, on some (sound) decoders, F1 might either turn sound on or off, or sound a horn or bell...possibly continuously .... i which case, if you wanted, say, the Cab light On - which was wried to the Green wire, and you diidn'y want the bell or horn to be sounding al the time the light was on.... you would need to RE-MAP one or both of those 'effects':  (whichever was easier or matched your other decoders best) to a DIFFERENT button.

 

Note that some, particularly basic decoders like the 'std'. Hornby, use F1 and F2 for the green and vilet outputs - no option.

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This is a DC model (works fine on DC forward & reverse)

 

I added a ESU 21 pin 4 function decoder as recommended by Rapido. Lighting works fine at either end one way but when I switch direction I get nothing at one end and head & taillights the same time on the other. 

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Assuming this is a LokPilot Standard (not a LokPilot V4, which is different), then

 

read-back and report the values of

      CV29 (checking its sensible)  and  

      CV33 to CV37 (lower rows of the function map), and

      CV47 (defines F1 in reverse, an ESU specific value)  

 

 

It might help make some progress.

 

-  Nigel

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If am reading the ESU site correctly, mapping allows you to change the function output to any function button. I don't care what button works what, my problem is that I have head lights AND tail lights on at the same time just on power car 1 and only when going forward. 

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If there is no read-back, we risk heading to "stuck".

 

Which function keys on your system operate the lights on the model, and in which directions ?   Are you certain all other function keys are set to "off" ?

 

 

 

An alternative approach may be to work out from the model, which pin on the decoder socket connects to which lights.  Possibly the maker's manual describes this, but I didn't find a manual online for the APT.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

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I am using a Dynamis (not the Ultima nor do I have the pro-box)

 

F4 & F5 are for each of the cab lights. 

 

On the Dynamis there is a light button (I think this is the equivalent of F0) and then F1 for the tail lights. 

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Right, now describe, precisely, in each direction of travel, what happens when you turn on the various functions.  I need to know which lights appear (or don't appear).

 

So, going Forward.  Turn on F0, what happens ?   Now turn off F0 and turn on F1, again what happens ?   Repeat for reverse direction.

 

 

This is starting to sound like function mapping.   It would be a doddle with a decent system with read-back, but we might get there by deductions from manuals.

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Read back is not actually needed to set the values..... And since a suitable set of values can be written down on a piece of low-tech paper.... By copying the table from the manual, and deciding on suitable test values..... Preferably the default values, so that the starting point is known .... ( a standard reset of the decoder would be a godd place to start) Followed by simply writing each of them in turn, there should be no problem , if it is also tested in forward and reverse at each stage.

 

Write down a table, as you test..... With 4 columns..

Reverse moving. Reverse stationary, forward stationary, forward moving

 

All functions off:

 

Only F0 on

 

F0 off, f1 on

 

F0 on, f1 on

 

And so on, if needed, with F2

But you should be able to relate the settings function by function, individually

 

I prefer 'no read back' programming.... It is much faster, and in most cases, you do not care what the previous value was, or if you do, then ,working from the default value, simply write each new value on that piece of paper 8-)

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From the table, it can be seen that, in Rapido's implementation, F0 only controls the headlights.
In a simple 2-function installation, the opposing red tail lights would be run from the same physical output as the headlight.
When used on a self contained unit, or light loco, then this used to be considered okay.... And is the basic effect in the model..
But Rapido don't do things by halves...
As programmed with their dcc sound decoder, the head/tail lights fade up and down, with an overlap as a result.
Therefore, they are presumably using separated outputs 'F1 and F2' or higher, for the tail lights. The model also has directionally controlled Cab lights 'F13 DC lighting'. An interesting note in their manual.... If programmed with a. 4digit address, it will not operate on analogue DC! (Coach lighting is always-on)

YOUR decoder is probably preprogrammed to have optional tail lights on f1. And f2 ... So that a loco connected to a train does not have its own tail light on... I have one which is set by default, so that they are both - directionally controlled And deselect able with f1 and F2.
You might also wish to check on which function is controlling the cab lighting.
I am unsure whether cab lighting should be on only when stationary, or when driving / trailing... Hence one reason why I said check when stationary and when moving in each direction.

Have you searches the Rapido apte official Thread on rmweb ? To see IF the mapping is mentioned?
Your table omits F2 which  will be, by default, the other end's tail light. Also check f3 and 4 for cab lighting??   update: or F5and6 suggested by Nigel (decoder dependant)

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It is a possibility as Phil describes, that the other tail light is intended to be on F2.   However,  I'm going to suggest a change using a bit of guesswork from the ESU manual.   

 

Set  CV47=8   and see what effect that has.    If the tail lamps are correct, we're there with headlights on F0 and tails on F1.  

If they are now fully backwards (head and tail at same end regardless of direction), then its CV47=4 and CV35=8.

 

 

(slight side issue,  from the default function mapping in the ESU manual, I can see how the cab lights might be F5 and F6, but not F4 and F5....). 

 

 

- Nigel

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I'm now reasonably certain the missing light is as Phil described, intended to be on F2, and is on the output Aux2.  

 

We have everything working on analogue (DC), which means suggests wiring faults are unlikely.

 

(Using ESU Lokpilot Standard manual terms for the outputs), on DCC we have Front Lights on outputs LV(front) and Other end Front Lights on LR(rear). 

Tail lights on Aux1 at one end of the unit, operating in both directions (due to the default function mapping in the LokPilot decoder). 

Missing tail lights at other end. 

Cab lights on Aux 3 and Aux 4, using the logic output from the MTC21 pin decoder.  

 

That only leaves Aux2 unaccounted for, which is almost certainly the missing tail lights.    Default mapping for an "out of the box" ESU LokPilot Standard would put those tail lights on F2.

I don't know if the F2 key on a dynamis is, by default, non-latching (meaning it has to be held down) ?  That is the behaviour of F2 on many systems. 

 

 

 

The change I suggested above with CV47 should add the missing tail lights to the F1 key, and make which tail light operate depend on loco direction.  (or the inverted form with CV35 and CV47 if the lights are at the wrong ends).

 

 

- Nigel

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Crisis averted !!!!!!!!  We have lights. Thanks to everyone for helping me especially Nigel. 

 

 

When I set CV47=8  I got head & tail lights together going forward and reverse with nothing at the opposite end depending on direction of travel. 

 

 

I changed CV47=4 and CV35=8 and Bingo !! works like a treat 

 

 

Thanks again. 

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