BR Oil Trains

[Evertrainz]

I would like to know what the composition of the average oil rake would have been, in the late-50's-early-60's era. I know there were 2 low buffer wagons protecting the loco and the brakevan, but after that? Was it all-out the same type of tank? Or, were there mixes of both Class A and Class B tanks in the same rake? How many "generic" BR tankers were there, opposed to the PO variants?

 

What I'm mainly looking for is some good pictures. I remember seeing a picture of a Warship leading a tank rake, with demountable tanks in the front. Not sure if it was oil, but did look interesting to me. Can someone point links to pictures of non-bogey oil tank rakes in the BR Green era?

 

Regards, Ron

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ron

 

A class tank wagons needed barrier wagons as stated above. These can be identified by having grey tank barrels and red solbars. Barrier wagons were needed full or empty because an empty wagon could be full of explosive fumes.

 

B class tank wagons did not need barrier wagons as they carry fuels etc. with a higher flash point. These are painted black.

 

B tanks in theory could be used as barrier wagons for A tanks.

 

Before the introduction of the Esso 35 ton GLW vacuum brake fitted wagons tank wagons were not fitted with automatic brakes. The unfitted wagons were manly conveyed in mixed freight trains, there were a few block workings but not many. Mixed trains of both types were common with early unfitted wagons, normally the A tanks one end and the B tanks the other in the 50s. Trains from the refineries would be composed of tank wagons but these would be remarshalled on route and the wagons end up at the many small oil depots there were at the time in twos and threes. Many of these wagons had one star markings which indicated they were fitted with oil axle boxes and could travel in the unfitted portion of most freight trains. There were a few unstared wagons and these would be restricted to which type of train they could travel in. The advent of vacuum fitted tank wagons was the start of bulk trains delivering to new large distribution depots. These carried 2 stars indicating they had automatic brakes and could travel in any freight train.

 

Shell-BP followed Esso in introducing vacuum fitted wagons, theirs were 40 ton GLW , and later 45 ton. This increased the number of bulk train workings. By the mid 60s there was a change to air braking, higher speeds and 100 ton bogie tank wagons.

 

BR had very few tank wagons of its own and most of these were in departmental use.

[unravelled]

I have some photos of oil trains passing through Oxford in 1964/5. Perhaps someone can identify the various tanks in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about unrotated pic

 

Dave

[jonny777]

Here are some Esso tankers at Salisbury behind 7209. Not sure of the date.

 

 

[hmrspaul]

The first is a SMBP train, The first five wagons are recently introduced vacuum braked probably 45tonners - the double plates is the give away. Probably class B as no barrier. The remainder of the train is unfitted presumably SMBP tanks.

 

The fifth is an SMBP train, it will consist of wagons built any time from the 1920s onwards, probably quite a lot of WW2 type as introduced by Lionheart. I can't see any anchor mounts.

 

There is insufficient of the others to suggest anything - a guess is simply more SMBPs, by the dates you are suggesting most companies had introduced vacuum braked wagons but SMBP was by far the largest fleet and also the last large fleet  to modernise. They seriously considered getting out of rail transport.

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

Here are some Esso tankers at Salisbury behind 7209. Not sure of the date.

 

 

IMG_1772copy.jpg

These are Class A tanks of 35ton GLW, vacuum braked, introduced from 1959. Interesting that there is no barriers shown. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb/e32cd852b

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

These are Class A tanks of 35ton GLW, vacuum braked, introduced from 1959. Interesting that there is no barriers shown. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb/e32cd852b

 

Paul

I wonder if these are working back to Fawley after overhaul somewhere, and are thus 'Empty and purged' I can't think of any other circumstances under which Class A wagons would have been coupled next to a steam loco.

[Clive Mortimore]

I wonder if these are working back to Fawley after overhaul somewhere, and are thus 'Empty and purged' I can't think of any other circumstances under which Class A wagons would have been coupled next to a steam loco.

Or new?

[Fat Controller]

Or new?

I wondered about that, but the tanks looked a bit care-worn. I've seen a shot elsewhere of a Pannier coupled to a mid-1960s LPG tank, without any barriers; it looks distinctly odd, until you realise that it was taken at Gloucester station, and the wagon is new from GRC&W's works.

[hmrspaul]

I wonder if these are working back to Fawley after overhaul somewhere, and are thus 'Empty and purged' I can't think of any other circumstances under which Class A wagons would have been coupled next to a steam loco.

They are permitted during shunting - I forget the detail, but they can work quite a long way before a barrier is required. But I don't think that is what is going on here, and in no way do they look new.

 

Paul

[Phil Bullock]

Heres one for you...

 

Fawley - Bomford Bridge behind 33s

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p726273221/h2EE5495E#h2ee5495e

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[jonny777]

That train was the 'star' of the Lickey incline in steam days and needed just about the entire banker allocation to assist up the gradient. There is a video somewhere of the 9F and three panniers at the rear.

[Phil Bullock]

Or 4 panniers....

 

 

Phil

[Porcy Mane]

Class A TTA tanks never used used a barrier when J27 hauled between the Esso Tynemouth terminal and Blyth power station. The distance traveled was a bit to far to class it as a shunting move.

 

P

Edited July 7, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[davefreight]

Worth bearing in mind that just because its a Class A tank it isn't necessarily loaded with a highly inflammable product.

 

DR

[TheSignalEngineer]

The first is a SMBP train, The first five wagons are recently introduced vacuum braked probably 45tonners - the double plates is the give away. Probably class B as no barrier. The remainder of the train is unfitted presumably SMBP tanks.

 

The fifth is an SMBP train, it will consist of wagons built any time from the 1920s onwards, probably quite a lot of WW2 type as introduced by Lionheart. I can't see any anchor mounts.

 

There is insufficient of the others to suggest anything - a guess is simply more SMBPs, by the dates you are suggesting most companies had introduced vacuum braked wagons but SMBP was by far the largest fleet and also the last large fleet  to modernise. They seriously considered getting out of rail transport.

 

Paul

At what stage in the modernisation of the fleet did SMBP start prefixing the numbers of old tanks with the letter 'A'?

[jonny777]

Or 4 panniers....

 

 

Phil

 

Wasn't there some form of banker rating in later years? The panniers were 0.5 and the 9F was 1 and the tonnage of the train determined the rating needed to assist it up the hill, with the train engine taken into account as well.

 

I suppose 4 panniers plus a 9F at the front (which is 3) was considered to be almost equivalent to a 9F and 3 panniers at the back with a 9F in charge (3.5).

 

Does anyone know how many tankers that train loaded to? It would be interesting to know the train's gross weight.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Lickey Banker rating was based on the tractive effort of a Jinty IIRC. 

 

Jinty    = 20.830lb = 1

94xx    = 22,515lb = 1

9F       = 39,667lb = 2

Bertha = 43,300lb = 2

 

The problem came when the 42xx was trialled as a replacement for Bertha by the WR as at 31,450lb it was rated 1¹/₂  so didn't fit in with what the locals were used to doing. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by TheSignalEngineer

[Clive Mortimore]

Worth bearing in mind that just because its a Class A tank it isn't necessarily loaded with a highly inflammable product.

 

DR

 

Hi Dave

 

Diesel.......class B fuel owing to its high flash point but is a "clean" product so can be transported in class A tanks without a barrier wagon.

[davefreight]

Hi Dave

 

Diesel.......class B fuel owing to its high flash point but is a "clean" product so can be transported in class A tanks without a barrier wagon.

Exactly.  For example the one time regular working from Port Clarence to Weaste was always composed of Class A tanks but the commodities they carried were Derv and kerosene.

[phil gollin]

.

 

PRESUMABLY, for large factories, or small heating fuel depots (for onwards transportation by road to customers) requiring bulk heating fuel or even diesel, individual, or small rakes of two or three tankers would be the norm ?

 

Would these be dedicated tanker trains with barrier vehicles, or would they be included in the normal pick-up goods ?

[TheSignalEngineer]

It was common to see small numbers of tanks on ordinary trains as much went to local depots. This picture shows one in a local freight at Snow Hill. 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1180.htm

Note that as a Class A tank this one is marshalled as the third wagon from the loco. Low flashpoint oils as carried in Class B tanks could usually be found anywhere in the train.

[Fat Controller]

.

 

PRESUMABLY, for large factories, or small heating fuel depots (for onwards transportation by road to customers) requiring bulk heating fuel or even diesel, individual, or small rakes of two or three tankers would be the norm ?

 

Would these be dedicated tanker trains with barrier vehicles, or would they be included in the normal pick-up goods ?

As the products quoted are Class B, no barrier wagons would be required. Such wagons would normally conveyed as part of mixed trunk freights, then by trip freights. The South-Eastern Division of the SR had quite a few small terminals scattered about; to serve some of these, a block train would work from Thameshaven or Ripple Lane to Tonbridge West Yard, where the train would be split to serve Canterbury West, High Brooms and the other terminals. Empties would follow the opposite path.

[davefrk]

Some class B trains did have barrier wagons possibly because of the type of load, the train on my layout 'Wharfeside' is made up from photographs and could have almost anything as a barrier wagon, I thought at first they were fitted wagons due to the gradients on the Wharfedale line but some photos showed wooden minerals or unfitted twin bolster wagons in use. I understand these trains were crude oil for refining so could possibly give off flammable vapours. There were also two barrier wagons before the brakevan.

J39 on the oil, Tanks slowly being detailed, weathered and chassis changed to the new Cambrian type.

 

Dave Franks

[Porcy Mane]

I wonder if the Shell BP Class B tanks were  bound for Heysham Moss Sidings and ultimately the 5 star plant?

 

http://www.heyshamheritage.org.uk/trimpell_oil_refinery.html

 

P